Kain Vs Link

yes well it does not matter how evil Link thinks Kain is, or indeed if the whole world Link comes from thought this, the fact remains is, what someone thinks does not make someone else evil.

Ive answered this before many times, durability is not a factor when conditioning Blood shower, what [b]I[/]b should be asking, is what kind of magic has Link resisted?

Also I cant see how TK can be seen as something the sword can protect against, its a mental force projected by Kain to create physical bonds, that would be like trying to stop Kains mental projection....I doubt the sowrd has ever done that.

Also surely the source of teh Master swords and indeed other Link powers sources are magic? since Kain is the regulator of magic, he would likely deem Link unable to use their power, unless ofcourse the items do not use magic as their power source.

Link can take this easily. He's made destroy peeps like Kain.

They do use magic, but it is divine magic from the goddesses.

I'll be back with magic specific endurance feats.

yeah, the very sages forged and created the master sword to protect it from specific evils that even would have obtained the Triforce, so in light of that, it's reasonable the Master Swords properties of magic or what not, go for beyond any extension of normal level charms.

It's forged and created for the very sole purpose to be the tool against all those who try to harm it's wielder.

I understand Kain has this power to control and regulate magic (is there proof of that by the way, footage of him using that or is it speculation based on what other people in his race have done) and even thus if he does show to have this ability what extension of canceling others magic is there?

i.e. can you stop certain bosses or anyone with very powerful from using their magic

if not then I don't think he could cancel out divinity of the Goddesses magic, who created the entire land of hyrule, the law of physics and time and life itself on the planet. The same Goddesses who reascending into the heavens created the sacred realm and the Triforce, which you now know of that's power.

So, the magic of the Master Sword and of Nayru's love and so on, are not simple parlor tricks or spells from pure mage blood nor books.

The power of magic regulation is a specific and only power the Balance guardians have, Kain is one of them, it is the regulation of magic. Which ofcourse means he is judge, jury etc over magic. Now if he so wishes it, he would by defintion of regulation, stop Link from using magic, stop the magic in his items and weapons. Balance guardian is not a race, a being is chosen to become that guardian and gains the power to regulate magic, there are other guardians to regulate other things such as abstract forces such as Death, the state of matter, energy etc. Kain is the regulator of Magic.

Kain's an anti-hero, if you ever wanted a correct label.

Like Deadpool.

And I read up on Kain and no where do I see he has this power of magic, he is the guardian of balance and all, but could you provide with a quote or video proof that he has this power to govern so highly over magic. I have yet to come across such.

I still also don't think that the divine blessing upon the Sword or through the condensed powers of the Goddesses into Din's Fire, Faroroe's Wind, and Nayru's love, can be countered by such ability. It would be out of his jurisdiction. Besides, canceling out things that try to cancel the Master Sword is what it does best. It would be a stale mate and thus, the master sword would still be able to carry out its normal duties.

But if you can get proof Kain has this power to cancel magic in general, that would leave a lot of Link's other spells nullified.

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/lok/guardians.php

The role of the Balance Guardians was a reglatory one; their magic influenced the regulation of the other magic in Nosgoth. We can identify three Balance Guardians, pictured above.

And as youll see, kain is among them.

Magic is his juristiction, if its magic then it cant be out of his jurisitction can it.

The role of the Balance Guardians was a reglatory one; their magic influenced the regulation of the other magic in Nosgoth.

This suggests there are limits on it.

Not exactley, since Nosgoth is the place the whole games universe is set in, it would be like saying "link has this incredible strength of the gauntlets in Hyrule" and me saying that is a limit on his strength.

Exept Link goes places other than Hyrule in his games and his abilities function fine, I'm more or less pointing out it looks as though he only has jurisdiction in his region, like a magic cop.

Also, I don't see how Kain could cut off Link's ties to the goddesses, there needs to be soem sort of feat to qauntify Kain's power?

Well the Zelda universe then, what ime saying is that Nosgoth is pretty much the universe Kain comes from, it wouldnt say he regulates magic anywhere else because he is not depicted anywhere other than Nosgoth.

I dont see why, Kain is the regulation, so power is not a question is it, if someone regulates something the power of the thing their regulating is determined by them alone. otherwise thay sort of defeats the point of regulation.

The role of the Balance Guardians was a reglatory one; their magic influenced the regulation of the other magic in Nosgoth. We can identify three Balance Guardians, pictured above.

reg⋅u⋅late
   /ˈrɛgyəˌleɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [reg-yuh-leyt]
–verb (used with object), -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing.
1. to control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.: to regulate household expenses.
2. to adjust to some standard or requirement, as amount, degree, etc.: to regulate the temperature.
3. to adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation: to regulate a watch.
4. to put in good order: to regulate the digestion.

Balance. Regulate. To make sure that magic does not run ramped and not one person has to much or to little. I don't see where I could literally take it that he can completely shut off anothers' magic at will. Or suggest that he can make his own magical abilities limitless, which he does not, right?

So, ScreamPaste also pointed out it does say Nosgoth.

Nosgoth is now his universe? Not world....ok. But the 9 Pillars and all that is not legend of restriction in Hyrule's universe. Nor are the Goddesses being the creator of the world, law and life apart of the Legend of Kain lore.

So, now, it's clear that it isn't apart of his jurisdiction I think. None the less. Even if it was, I pointed out the Master Sword would still cancel out that ability if he COULD completely tap Link of all magical prowess. This isn't really the point you should be selling though.

I don't think Link can still deal with telekinesis of a 100% pure mental ability. Let alone this power to draw and suck out the blood flow form one's stream. (I'm still confused as why you continue to say it specifically is the blood cell, does it actually say that some where in the game? Because it's easier to just say the blood.) If you want to continue to say blood cell that is giving him a power I don't think he's stated to obtain. Even to go as far as to say it's minute Telekinetic control. There isn't any actual canon, word for word proof. It is speculation, even if it is evident.

It's clear he has an ability to manipulate blood, be it spell or the power over it in general. It has only been seen Kain is able to draw it out of the enemy. Slowly from the mouth, or violently in an eruptive combustion. I don't think that is enough to say he could palpitate it in ones heart to cause cardiac arrest or other internal injuries, since there is no canon proof of it. Even, once again, if you could see it evidently.

You gotta be fair and limit and restrict accordingly.

Still, pure TK is a problem at the moment.

Originally posted by Voyeur
[b]reg⋅u⋅late
   /ˈrɛgyəˌleɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [reg-yuh-leyt]
–verb (used with object), -lat⋅ed, -lat⋅ing.
1. to control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.: to regulate household expenses.
2. to adjust to some standard or requirement, as amount, degree, etc.: to regulate the temperature.
3. to adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation: to regulate a watch.
4. to put in good order: to regulate the digestion.

Balance. Regulate. To make sure that magic does not run ramped and not one person has to much or to little. I don't see where I could literally take it that he can completely shut off anothers' magic at will. Or suggest that he can make his own magical abilities limitless, which he does not, right?

So, ScreamPaste also pointed out it does say Nosgoth.

Nosgoth is now his universe? Not world....ok. But the 9 Pillars and all that is not legend of restriction in Hyrule's universe. Nor are the Goddesses being the creator of the world, law and life apart of the Legend of Kain lore.

So, now, it's clear that it isn't apart of his jurisdiction I think. None the less. Even if it was, I pointed out the Master Sword would still cancel out that ability if he COULD completely tap Link of all magical prowess. This isn't really the point you should be selling though.

I don't think Link can still deal with telekinesis of a 100% pure mental ability. Let alone this power to draw and suck out the blood flow form one's stream. (I'm still confused as why you continue to say it specifically is the blood cell, does it actually say that some where in the game? Because it's easier to just say the blood.) If you want to continue to say blood cell that is giving him a power I don't think he's stated to obtain. Even to go as far as to say it's minute Telekinetic control. There isn't any actual canon, word for word proof. It is speculation, even if it is evident.

It's clear he has an ability to manipulate blood, be it spell or the power over it in general. It has only been seen Kain is able to draw it out of the enemy. Slowly from the mouth, or violently in an eruptive combustion. I don't think that is enough to say he could palpitate it in ones heart to cause cardiac arrest or other internal injuries, since there is no canon proof of it. Even, once again, if you could see it evidently.

You gotta be fair and limit and restrict accordingly.

Still, pure TK is a problem at the moment. [/B]

Well through regulation, as your defintions show he has control over its variables, through that he could shut off the magic altogether as aform of regulation. Making his own magical abilities infnite are also a likely circumstance in this match.

No but the powers the chracters use in Hyrule in debates on KMC can still effect characters from other universes, as it should be, with Kains regulation.

Well I say blood cells because their what Kain has to move in order to get blood going, blood itself is made up of blood cells ofcourse.

If he can make it flow out of a beings mouth, wounds or whever he summons the blood from its practical that he would also be able to direct it to other places, the heart, the lungs etc, logically he can, saying he cannot would be like saying Link is stuck using the exact same movements we see in-game, wheras ofcourse in a real battle, he can use diffrent movements and techniques that a character would in real life, characters in VS debates are not bound by gameplay rules.

I agree that we should go above and beyond game mechanics, but nothing openly suggests he can do that sort of manipulation of the blood control other wise. Like I said, even if it is evident to see that he may, he simply does not. Or else, you'd have that ability in game I'd imagine against certain enemies and so on. I see the irony in this statement but it holds true.

Regulation means Balance. Even one of the definitions, to put in good order. Hence he is the Pillar of Balance guardian. Balance wouldn't be to make something one extreme to the next. And removing Link of all his magical capabilities is Unbalanced. It isn't regulating.

None the less, nothing proves that even that would intervene with the divinity of the Gods that bless Link, or the fact I stated before the master sword leaves such attempts moot.

So, yes, blood cell, blood, the flow or what not. etc etc. I still can not debunk that and it stays as that. The only way Kain could get it from Link is to draw it out of his open mouth, since Link's skin is highly durable to wounds. While using pure telekinesis to pin him down and such.

Though during this, it would be that Link would be able to still hook shot Kain or fire an arrow and such to cancel out a continuing blood loss. Since telekinesis is physical pressure applied and we've proven with his fastened gauntlets, let alone already natural muscle strength, that Link could thwart the hold off eventually. Kain just needs to do this blood siphoning in intervals until Link had loss enough blood though.

Since it isn't telekinesis and is not some form of magic, and is unlabeled in what Kain can do but clearly just has this control over blood, I can't say Link has anything against that specifically at this moment. You could beg to differ if you want Scream, that this unknown power can be combated with the Master Sword's veil.

If it can cancel being transmutated into a wolf at will or even being dimensionally sealed, puppet and mind controlled, and so on a list down the line from Ganondorf, then I think it would fairly be able to not allow such a blood harvest on Link.

what are you restricting the master sword too BT? because it actually has some feats that is title dependent.

Originally posted by Voyeur
I agree that we should go above and beyond game mechanics, but nothing openly suggests he can do that sort of manipulation of the blood control other wise. Like I said, even if it is evident to see that he may, he simply does not. Or else, you'd have that ability in game I'd imagine against certain enemies and so on. I see the irony in this statement but it holds true.

Regulation means Balance. Even one of the definitions, to put in good order. Hence he is the Pillar of Balance guardian. Balance wouldn't be to make something one extreme to the next. And removing Link of all his magical capabilities is Unbalanced. It isn't regulating.

None the less, nothing proves that even that would intervene with the divinity of the Gods that bless Link, or the fact I stated before the master sword leaves such attempts moot.

So, yes, blood cell, blood, the flow or what not. etc etc. I still can not debunk that and it stays as that. The only way Kain could get it from Link is to draw it out of his open mouth, since Link's skin is highly durable to wounds. While using pure telekinesis to pin him down and such.

Though during this, it would be that Link would be able to still hook shot Kain or fire an arrow and such to cancel out a continuing blood loss. Since telekinesis is physical pressure applied and we've proven with his fastened gauntlets, let alone already natural muscle strength, that Link could thwart the hold off eventually. Kain just needs to do this blood siphoning in intervals until Link had loss enough blood though.

Since it isn't telekinesis and is not some form of magic, and is unlabeled in what Kain can do but clearly just has this control over blood, I can't say Link has anything against that specifically at this moment. You could beg to differ if you want Scream, that this unknown power can be combated with the Master Sword's veil.

If it can cancel being transmutated into a wolf at will or even being dimensionally sealed, puppet and mind controlled, and so on a list down the line from Ganondorf, then I think it would fairly be able to not allow such a blood harvest on Link.

what are you restricting the master sword too BT? because it actually has some feats that is title dependent.

Thats like saying Link can only slash with his sword the exact ways weve seen in the game, if the game only showed him slashing down...that doesnt mean in a debate, or in a real battle, he couldnt slash from side to side...weve seen him manipulate blood, thats all we need as evidence to decide that instead of moving the blood north, he will move it south into the heart.

Not quite, balance or "balance" guardian means to make sure things are even, regulation is Kains power that allows him to keep the magical balance, obviously he woudlnt give a damn about balance against Link, since in this debate hes going to try and Kill him. Balance and regulaton are diffrent things.

The only question is do they use magic, yes or no? if its yes, then Kain can regulate it.

Depends, theres more than one way to draw blood with a bit of pressure, burst an artery, through the pores etc etc, being durable against striking objects is not the same as being imperivious, skin is indeed covered in tiny holes as you likely very well know.

Can you show me the Mastersword doing these things please? resisting dimenstional seal and such, ime not sure ive seen it. although no we cannot assume it would protect link from the blood harvest.

Ime restricting it to any canonically official feats, e.g. if its canonically stated/shown to definaltey stop a certain power, then it can stop it. You cant assume however that just because Ganon or another being who has a power, didnt use it on Link or couldnt that it was because of the Master Sword.

Link uses the Mirror shield to reflect any TK. The official ability of the Mirror shield is that it reflects or absorbs ENERGY. TK is a type of energy, just like chi, ki or whatever. Therefore, it gets reflected or absorbed, regardless of the effect.

How can you reflect TK?

It doesn't reflect the actual force, it reflects the energy necessary to create the force. (I think)

Anyway, interesting debate!

Originally posted by Gumachi
How can you reflect TK?

With the Mirror Shield, appearantly. Or matching it with equal force (like Anakin and Obiwan's Force-lock in ep 3).

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Link uses the Mirror shield to reflect any TK. The official ability of the Mirror shield is that it reflects or absorbs ENERGY. TK is a type of energy, just like chi, ki or whatever. Therefore, it gets reflected or absorbed, regardless of the effect.

He won't be using any shields in Kain's presence.