Kain Vs Link

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Then, it gets better, Link runs into Ganon's castle, fights his way to the top of the centre tower, and faces Ganon.. who immediately tries to TK Link. He uses "dark magic" to blast Link, but Link simply braces himself, and is fine, nothing happens. Navi however, can't stand it, she's driven away... Why not Link? Why can he stand up to it? Master sword in his hand, he goes to work.

The rest of your post needed no response, it was far too founded on speculation.

Liez. You didn't read it all, the aLttP bit is kinda bad, and the grammar is horrendous. HOWEVER: the proof is there, especialyl in TP, the most recent title. I'll dig up quotes later, I've been drinking. But it's there.

Edit: When I get a video you'll see he clearly is assaulting Link directly with energy/TK/something. It keeps Navi away, but when Ganon assumes his beast form Navi comes back just fine.

Navi may be a fairy but a fairy is closely related as a descendant to the Goddesses in that world and have a high magical tolerance and ability. In fact what you may think you know about fairies is probably wrong and they actually are high strong, magical prowess beings in general, even in other lore. Physical power has nothing to do in general with resisting what Ganondorf in my interpretation uses to perform his Telekinesis.

e.g. Great Fairies, bottled fairies restore Link back to life fully and so on

edit: when I'm done eating and relaxing I'll actually show you guys quotes word for word Canon to back up all of Paste's claims and how they're not speculation.

Shut the hell up.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Shut the hell up.

This debate stuff is pretty easy when no one puts up to much of a challenge or poses an intelligent threat. But debunking amazing biased perception of TK'ing blood cells specifically is tough.

=P

You are arguing that Navi the fvcking fairy have high durability, you will never prove that.

EVERYTHING Paste said is speculation. Repelling a curse? Sure. Stopping TK, being dumped in another dimension, or time powers?

Please kindly stfu.

I thought you were actually good at this sort of bull shit? But you're kind of really lame and asinine so far.

But umm, yeah...durability by what means? if you punch her, for sure she'll get squashed.

Ganondorf is using his pure blood mage abilities though so send out some sort of attempt to curse and capture Link, but failing. It is able to weaken Navi but not completely dispose of her. That is because it is Ganondorf's spiritual and magical power against her own.

It doesn't matter if she is physically weak or very low in endurance. It's Magic vs Magic. Most Magical based beings in all kinds of games are squishy.

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy there is a shit load of different stuff about fairies and I know you won't read that but honestly, they're capable of some pretty twisted stuff. Especially going by Legend of Zelda Lore; Fairies are very well endowed magical and spiritual beings.

Any way *rolls eyes* that isn't the point of this debate. I'll get those master sword quotes some other time when I'm not doing other stuff.

Originally posted by Voyeur
I thought you were actually good at this sort of bull shit? But you're kind of really lame and asinine so far.

But umm, yeah...durability by what means? if you punch her, for sure she'll get squashed.

Ganondorf is using his pure blood mage abilities though so send out some sort of attempt to curse and capture Link, but failing. It is able to weaken Navi but not completely dispose of her. That is because it is Ganondorf's spiritual and magical power against her own.

It doesn't matter if she is physically weak or very low in endurance. It's Magic vs Magic. Most Magical based beings in all kinds of games are squishy.

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy there is a shit load of different stuff about fairies and I know you won't read that but honestly, they're capable of some pretty twisted stuff. Especially going by Legend of Zelda Lore; Fairies are very well endowed magical and spiritual beings.

Any way *rolls eyes* that isn't the point of this debate. I'll get those master sword quotes some other time when I'm not doing other stuff.

And I assure you I am far better at this thing than you are, only I base my debates on facts. Not on speculation or idiocy.

its all fact.

Do you see Ganondorf using physical strength against Navi?

....meh...what a waste of time. This theory bull shit is pretty fun since there is no definite debunking of certain things to a greater respect and I actually have used nothing but facts and quotes and keep to canon in all the other debates, if some one points out other wise then I'll gladly put that down or siphon out why not?

Then again, Theory Bull shit in smash forums is always less fun since...it's debunked by "Lets play." though then it also brings truth to the final matter. Where as this crap can go on for ever.

lets say you're not narrow minded though for a few moments time and realize that Ganondorf isn't using physical power and is presenting some sort of magical presence against Navi. (its not clear what the power is trying to accomplish, IMO drag Link to him) so Navi had to use all her magical output to cancel that effect on herself and then made her drained.

Fairies in the LoZ world are capable of blessing Link with the divine spells of the Goddesses, increasing his over all life capabilities and even the common fairy imps are able to fully restore Link from certain death. That doesn't show feats of their magical prowess? They obviously have SOMETHING going for them.

any way...waste of time.... :]

tl;dr: Physical Endurance = Physical Endurance. Mental Endruance = Mental Endurance. Magical Endurance = Magical Endurance. Spiritual Endurance = Spiritual Endurance. And so on and so on.

e.g. One usually can't punch and break anothers spirit/will on a tangible level.

Reading through Screams and you guys posts, I still cannot find the evidence ,still speculation/assumption, or was the evidence not posted yet?

Also regardless of the evidence, anyone can still play on the fact the Mastersword protects against evil, and in LOK kain not considered evil, infact the idea of evil is a point of view, wheras in Zelda series, its a tangible force thus its likely the sword only protects against ganon and those beings actually thought to be evil.

The draining of the blood of "innocent" bystanders...perhaps I should say helpless instead...could hardly be considered "good", now can it?

Point of view, Kain drinks blood to survive and strengthen himself, its like eating animals as a human being, it all depends on beliefs. Fact is, Kain is not evil, and hes not unlike Ganon depicted as an evil entity, Ganon on the other hand is "king of evil" and seems like an evil embodiment in that world.

Okay, I could understand the whole "food chain" debate, if it weren't for one very important fact. Humans, while animals, are sentient in a way most animals clearly aren't. That's part of what makes us consider animals...well...animals.

To put it in an example, if Kain happened to need sustenance, and he chose you to drain, would you consider it evil that he was essentially stealing your life to prolong his?

Well theres no point in having a moral debate since thats not what this forum is for, simple fact is, Kain is not considered evil, and a point of view of someone doesnt make them evil, so the Mastersword is likely if not definaltey useless protectionwise against Kain and his powers.

I wouldnt consider it evil, I would consider it certainly an inconveniance for my part but not "evil", maybe cruel depending on the rest of the set up. Obvioulsy if he chose me, 19 years old, fairly young, maybe with a life ahead of he while at the same time, a sick and dieing 90 year old was in the next room, then I would probably think on his morals, although tbh if Kain was coming at me for blood, how morally wrong he is would not be going through my mind.

But as I said, a moral debate is not part of this forum and its not really relevent, a point of view is not enough to condemn anyone, wheras evil for Ganon is not a point of view, its a substantial and tangible status.

Well, then, this becomes an issue of alignment between worlds. If evil is a point of view for Kain, it doesn't change what is considered evil to Link and the Master Sword. They have a set standard of good and evil, and regardless of Kain's opinion, his actions will resonate to one side of the spectrum or the other, and chances are those actions will lean towards the side of "evil".

Well maybe in the eyes of the people of Hyrule, but not to kain, not to mention he does not have to adhere by their rules. Also Evil is not just a point of view in the Zelda games, its just a constant force which is why weapons that are made to fight "evil" exist and have actual properties against those kinds of beings, since Kain is not that kind of being, some sort of manifestation of evil like Ganon seems to be, then the Master sword would not protect Link against Kain.

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Sword

To busy and need to go at the moment to go through my games and get pure word for word quotes of Canon from the game of how the Master Sword actually, literally protects Link from curses and magic and such.

Also though, it is clear Kain is a pure telekinetic, unlike what I think of Ganondorf. Ganondorf is a pure blooded mage (yes they call him a Wizard but that is wrong, since Wizards need to recite incantations to cast spells, Ganon does not) So with an extensive knowledge of of many spells and curses and so forth, he can quick cast and purely in his blood use them, even some being like that of Telekinesis.

Though...in my own above rant I do realize they call him a Wizard and perhaps he actually is a Wizard with Telekinetic powers. I mean, Zelda is a Telepath, Telekinetic and has precognitive dreams, so it wouldn't be hard to think Ganondorf does have TK.

None the less my view is; he's a pure blooded mage with the power of magic flowing through his blood and veins, so he doesn't need to recite incantations. So he just is using spells that levitate things and so on.

Some one else can argue he is a pure telekinetic like Kain. Anyway, the master sword would protect from such spells and all but I don't know if any translation it would defend link from a 100% telekinetic. If Kain is evil though, then, it most likely would have some defense.

Any way, later.

EDIT: everything I say about Ganondorf is pure theory and speculation based on my extensive knowledge of Wizards, mages and other magical beings from playing many other games and reading folk lore of many stories. D&D from a mate and so on.
But he could very well be a Wizard with telekinesis.

If Kain were to try to kill Link I don't think the sword would need much nudging to register Kain as a jerk. The sword seems to function fine against beings with no concept of evil, such as the twili, even in the twlight realm.

But thats in a universe where evil manifests as actual beings and as a tanigible form, in Legacy of Kain, evil is nothing more than an ideology and by some, kain is a messiah of good, attempting to save the world....which technically he is.

Which is cool, I enjoy the LoK games, haha.

But for the purposes of this debate he's also trying to kill someone else who's job is to save the world, and who does so in a much less questionable manner =P and I see what you mean, with Ganon being the seeming emobdiment of evil. Really, it's not so, he created all the evil that sorrounds himself, and has a human side. Before Ganondorf there were no physical embodiments of evil.

I don't see how the sword's PIS ability's can be called speculation, the real speculation is who it works on, lol.

Some of Kain's methods would seem evil to Link, some of his motivations would seem good. The sword, has no stated way of figuring out the black and white cases. So this enters the "what if" area.

IF it does work, TK and blood shower are out, and the sword acts as anathema to Kain.

if not, I don;t think Kain's TK is that dangerous, and he could probably resist blood shower. Anytime Kain lifts him off the ground, he knocks and pulls an arrow, and kain either breaks concentration and gtfo's or gets it.

what is the most durable being Kain has ever bloodshowered?