ALbert Wesker (pre Boroboris) vs. Raiden

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Raiden is alot stronger than any bullet, Genesis.

Furthermore, if Raiden's cyborg ninja self is anything like Fox, who dodged mountained machine gun fire of around 1500 m/s, I might add, [fast enough to be invisible!] I doubt Wesker can keep up.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. I know that the weapon is a futuristic weapon that has two gatling guns on each wing.

You don't know what type of gun it actually is. You don't know what it's classification is. You don't know what materials it's made of. You don't know what type of bullets it uses. You don't know what the material of the bullets itself is. You don't know what the range of the gun is.

And considering the fact that the very thing is made of top line tech along with being heavily armor plated, you think it would have shit guns? And this is human Raiden.

I never said it has "shit guns". Still doesn't change the fact that you're employing gross speculation into your argument, ignoring all the variables in the process. This isn't a habit you've always had. Don't let the debating tactics of certain people rub off on you.

Copout, it would classify as a "big gun," which according to the source I provided, can shoot at about 1,500 mps.

which is more than three times the speed of sound, the guns Ray was using are logically more advanced and larger guns, and they are automatic, Raiden can block them.

And your source is over a decade old and is fallacious in itself. It was written by students for gods sake. Hardly matters though. Your entire point is contradicted by your own weak decade old source.

"With modern propulsion techniques, the projectile's initial velocity may be as high as 4000 feet (1200 meters) per second for some rifles and 5000 feet (1500 meters) per second for some large guns."

Your own source states that this isn't an absolute. The size of a weapon doesn't determine it's speed. It's the materials and the classification that does. And no. "Gatling gun" is not a classification, it's just a type of machine gun clip.

So, prove up. You have a lot of variables to cover here. Get to quantifying.

2. And all of that equals him being able to take hits from a guy who while injured, missing one arm, although with a bit of leverage, stopped a giant ship that easily weighs multiples of 1,000 tons?

Yeah, it does, considering for all we know Raiden could have been using all the strength he possibly had to keep that thing in the air, including all the strength in his arms and his legs and his torso, which is something that you don't have the luxury of having when attacking with just your hands, first off. Second off, as noted already Wesker will be literally running in circles around him, meaning that if Raiden wants to tag him at all he needs to do quick calculated light strikes like jabs, not massive haymakers. He doesn't move fast enough to do a one-hit punch, which would involve throwing his entire body into the punch, and if he were to miss he'd be completely and utterly exposed and overextended.

His body was not crushed by Arsenal Gear. Wesker is not doing shit to him.

There's a difference between using every muscle in your body to keep something from falling on you, and taking a concentrated blow to only one part of your body, rendering all the resistance in every other part of your body useless. When you're lifting something heavy over your head the weight is distributed evenly throughout your body, from your two hands to your shoulders all the way down to your calves. It's completely different from a concentrated impact.

Now, if Raiden had been laying down on his back and all of the weight from the Gear was put on only his stomach, and he was fine, then you'd have a point.

3. Only Wesker's feats cannot be quantified. The calculations for how fast you have to be to disappear from sight have already been done.

No they haven't, because you did them wrong.

It is about 200 miles per hour for a human sized object.

You forgot something.

Wesker's fastest reflex feats were dodging sniper shots I believe, and gatling shots, which though impressive, does not make him faster than Raiden by any long shot.

This doesn't really make any sense. You're saying that Wesker dodging a Gatling gun is a lesser feat than Raiden dodging a Gatling gun?

Or are you going to bring out the "But MG's Gatling looks bigger so it shoots faster" argument again?

I did the calculations,

Your calculations are just as wrong as EA's were. Because you're not taking everything into account. I can tell you what they are, ebcause I'm pretty sure you haven't noticed them because yu're not mentally retarded like me and you don't obscess over certain small details like I do.

how's about you do some of your own?

Why?

It's common knowledge that in a debate you don't bring real world physics like numbers into a debate about fictional characters. It's doomed to fail and it makes your entire argument look silly, not good. I don't feel the need to attempt to make myself look smart by posting big numbers written in scientific ntoation. I'm not saying thats your intent, and I'm sorry if I sound like a dick, but, I'm just saying. It's pointless.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Yeah, it does, considering for all we know Raiden could have been using all the strength he possibly had to keep that thing in the air, including all the strength in his arms and his legs and his torso, which is something that you don't have the luxury of having when attacking with just your hands, first off. Second off, as noted already Wesker will be literally running in circles around him, meaning that if Raiden wants to tag him at all he needs to do quick calculated light strikes like jabs, not massive haymakers. He doesn't move fast enough to do a one-hit punch, which would involve throwing his entire body into the punch, and if he were to miss he'd be completely and utterly exposed and overextended.

There's a difference between using every muscle in your body to keep something from falling on you, and taking a concentrated blow to only one part of your body, rendering all the resistance in every other part of your body useless. When you're lifting something heavy over your head the weight is distributed evenly throughout your body, from your two hands to your shoulders all the way down to your calves. It's completely different from a concentrated impact

and also he didnt lift it above himself (i think you are thinking of gray fox stoping metal gear rex) it was moving to crush snake and he came up and stoped it from moving

Originally posted by Final Blaxican

Now, if Raiden had been laying down on his back and all of the weight from the Gear was put on only his stomach, and he was fine, then you'd have a point.

I did some comparisons to our own world out of boredom, and, lookee what I've found.

The M-61 Vulcan Gatling gun is the most advanced Gatling gun we have in existence so far.

This is our "big gun", we attach it to all of our, ya know, big stuff.

The M61 Vulcan, our most advanced and powerful Gatling Gun, has a bullet speed of only 1,050 m/s, which is slower than some rifles.

So, yeah. You want to use real world logic and facts? Proof that how big a gun is doesn't influence how fast the bullets are. Your source is incorrect.

And out of curiosity, and this aimed at both of you, where was all this amazing punching power when:

He was stuck in a crucifix position tied up by mere ropes that were cut by an assault rifle bullet, meaning their tinsel strength wasn't all that strong, even if they were made of steel.

and

Raiden punches Vamp in the face. Vamp only weighs about 200 pounds max. If Raiden punched with hundreds of tons of force, it would have sent a 200 pound man FLYING. Even if Vamp hadn't been hurt he would have been sent flying, also regardless of his physical strength he would have been sent flying.

It didn't.

Raiden jumps on top of him and starts stomping on him. If he was doing so with multi-ton strength it should have created at least a small crater when the kinetic energy displaced by such a powerful attack reached the ground.

And in addition, when his sword hits the ground it leaves a small stab hole where the sword digs into the ground. Despite the fact that it's sharp as hell, any object slammed into the ground with tons upon tons upon tons of force like that would have a much bigger effect on mere old weathered asphalt.

Raiden was obviously fighting to kill throughout that fight. So you better have a damn good reason for why he'd be pulling his punches until they were a fraction of the strength you think he has in one punch, and not even a regular full on punch but a quick jab.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I did some comparisons to our own world out of boredom, and, lookee what I've found.

The M-61 Vulcan Gatling gun is the most advanced Gatling gun we have in existence so far.

This is our "big gun", we attach it to all of our, ya know, [b]big stuff.

The M61 Vulcan, our most advanced and powerful Gatling Gun, has a bullet speed of only 1,050 m/s, which is slower than some rifles.

So, yeah. You want to use real world logic and facts? Proof that how big a gun is doesn't influence how fast the bullets are. Your source incorrect. [/B]

anyway here is a vid of where raiden stopped arsanal gear and then got crushed by it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgRvKJeBbRk

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
And out of curiosity, and this aimed at both of you, where was all this amazing punching power when:

He was stuck in a crucifix position tied up by mere ropes that were cut by an assault rifle bullet, meaning their tinsel strength wasn't all that strong, even if they were made of steel. so again think about what you say before you say them

and

Raiden punches Vamp in the face. Vamp only weighs about 200 pounds max. If Raiden punched with hundreds of tons of force, it would have sent a 200 pound man FLYING. Even if Vamp hadn't been hurt he would have been sent flying, also regardless of his physical strength he would have been sent flying.

It didn't.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Raiden jumps on top of him and starts stomping on him. If he was doing so with multi-ton strength it should have created at least a small crater when the kinetic energy displaced by such a powerful attack reached the ground.

And in addition, when his sword hits the ground it leaves a small stab hole where the sword digs into the ground. Despite the fact that it's sharp as hell, any object slammed into the ground with tons upon tons upon tons of force like that would have a much bigger effect on mere old weathered asphalt.

Originally posted by niduin
ok for tha particulare gun its not "advanced" because of the speed of one bullet, its because of the rate at which the bullets come out,

Rate of fire only talks about how many bullets are launched, not how fast they move. Thus, dodging a gun that has a high RoF doesn't mean much, relatively speaking.

altho these bullets from the gheko are gatlin guns, i think they are .50 cal machine guns, which have probably the fastest speed per bullet. but the firing rate is kind of slow.

The larger the mass of a bullet the slower it will go due to wind resistance. Being bigger actually makes you slower. A missile moves slower than a bullet because the amount of torque required to move a ten foot object through air is much greater than the torque required to move a half inch object through air. Also, there is less air in front of the bullet creating friction and stopping it, and there's less gravity on the smaller object forcing it into the ground.

anyway here is a vid of where raiden stopped arsanal gear and then got crushed by it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgRvKJeBbRk

Impressive. Never said the guy wasn't strong, just that there's a difference. Notice that he's using every muscle in his body, including the leverage from the unbreakable sword and the friction of the ground, and again it took literally all of his strength to do so, beyond what his body could take as it killed him. It's not strength that he readily has access to at any time, and it's not strength that he can wind up into one punch.

Originally posted by niduin
the cables are just PIS, and i cant think of one time where raiden ever succesfuly punched vamp in the face, i will look tho

Yeah, go look at the video.

ok once again you need to think about what you are saying before you say it, if you are standing and you weigh oh 260 lbs (with the suit) and you hit the ground with you foot with tons of force you are going to jump really high, same with the sword thing [/B]

... what?

No. That's not what would happen at all. You don't "bounce" from hitting something unless it's substantially more durable than you are.

But, wait. He didn't bounce either. Are you saying that Raiden wasn't striking with tons of force?

hm...

blax are intentionally dence? if you hit your foot on the ground with more force than you weigh it will make you go up, im sorry i can not argue with you anymore, i mean if you cant understand that, i have more to say about what you said but you just wont understand it, man it is so frustrating

Raiden didn't die, just so you know.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Yeah, go look at the video.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Rate of fire only talks about how many bullets are launched, not how fast they move. Thus, dodging a gun that has a high RoF doesn't mean much, relatively speaking.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican

The larger the mass of a bullet the slower it will go due to wind resistance. Being bigger actually makes you slower. A missile moves slower than a bullet because the amount of torque required to move a ten foot object through air is much greater than the torque required to move a half inch object through air. Also, there is less air in front of the bullet creating friction and stopping it, and there's less gravity on the smaller object forcing it into the ground.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican

Impressive. Never said the guy wasn't strong, just that there's a difference. Notice that he's using every muscle in his body, including the leverage from the unbreakable sword and the friction of the ground, and again it took literally all of his strength to do so, beyond what his body could take as it killed him. It's not strength that he readily has access to at any time, and it's not strength that he can wind up into one punch.

so i looked up the weight of a aircraft carior, and letst assume that arsanal gear is near this weight. 97,000 tons

And let's not forget Raiden was severley weakened when he was stopping Arsenal Gear, because his fights with Vamp left him wounder as always, plus he only had one arm.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
And out of curiosity, and this aimed at both of you, where was all this amazing punching power when:

He was stuck in a crucifix position tied up by mere ropes that were cut by an assault rifle bullet, meaning their tinsel strength wasn't all that strong, even if they were made of steel.

and

Raiden punches Vamp in the face. Vamp only weighs about 200 pounds max. If Raiden punched with hundreds of tons of force, it would have sent a 200 pound man FLYING. Even if Vamp hadn't been hurt he would have been sent flying, also regardless of his physical strength he would have been sent flying.

It didn't.

Raiden jumps on top of him and starts stomping on him. If he was doing so with multi-ton strength it should have created at least a small crater when the kinetic energy displaced by such a powerful attack reached the ground.

And in addition, when his sword hits the ground it leaves a small stab hole where the sword digs into the ground. Despite the fact that it's sharp as hell, any object slammed into the ground with tons upon tons upon tons of force like that would have a much bigger effect on mere old weathered asphalt.

Raiden was obviously fighting to kill throughout that fight. So you better have a damn good reason for why he'd be pulling his punches until they were a fraction of the strength you think he has in one punch, and not even a regular full on punch but a quick jab.

The first was blatant PIS.

The second is the same reason why cities and countries do not get destroyed when Superman Prime fights, it is an inconstistency. I could moan and b!tch to you that Wesker could not even kill a normal human like Chris Redfield in a punch despite his steel punching feats, yet I do not.

So going by the bullshit logic I cannot believe you used in this post, Wesker cannot physically kill a human.

Except Wesker killed Spencer by jamming his fist through him

Spencer was a decrepit old man in a wheelchair. 😐

K

He physically can punch a Majini's head off.

Exactly my point idiot, we can all bring up low showings or inconsistencies, doesn't stop the fact that Wesker punches through steel and Raiden stopped a multi-thousand ton fortress.