The Spectre vs. most powerful Celestial.

Originally posted by Astner
Assuming that was the case, would it disqualify my position?

The Presence himself refers to the Spectre as his agent. Spectre, and Spectre alone is the one referring to himself as the "Wrath of God" or "God's fist".

But when we take a look as events such as when the Spectre merged with the Source he obtained a level of power he never experienced before, he was even unable to hold it. Out of that we can conclude that the Spectre never exerted such power before.

We can take that point further and say that the Spectre never have been beyond the Source--other than when they merged.

Source > Spectre

For you to suggest the opposite--that Spectre channels the power of the Presence directly--is ridiculous, because he has never exerted such power on panel.

When you go around trolling Spectre threads, making claims about how the will of the Presence determines the outcome. You are supposed to be ready to back those claims up. If the opposing debaters start posting panel feats of Spectre's opponent you would have to counter them with feats of the Spectre.

That's what I'm doing right now. Show me. Show me evidence that the Spectre has exerted powers beyond the Source, and is capable of surpassing all the other abstracts in the DC universe--and no, a Dr. Fate statement won't cut it, panel feats or the words of a narrator is required.

You've created, or at least contributed to the Spectre respect thread so you can pull out the scans necessary--the alternative would be giving me the number of a specific issue. If you don't I'll take it as a concession from your part.

Originally posted by Astner
Assuming that was the case, would it disqualify my position?

The Presence himself refers to the Spectre as his agent. Spectre, and Spectre alone is the one referring to himself as the "Wrath of God" or "God's fist".

But when we take a look as events such as when the Spectre merged with the Source he obtained a level of power he never experienced before, he was even unable to hold it. Out of that we can conclude that the Spectre never exerted such power before.

We can take that point further and say that the Spectre never have been beyond the Source--other than when they merged.

Source > Spectre

For you to suggest the opposite--that Spectre channels the power of the Presence directly--is ridiculous, because he has never exerted such power on panel.

When you go around trolling Spectre threads, making claims about how the will of the Presence determines the outcome. You are supposed to be ready to back those claims up. If the opposing debaters start posting panel feats of Spectre's opponent you would have to counter them with feats of the Spectre.

That's what I'm doing right now. Show me. Show me evidence that the Spectre has exerted powers beyond the Source, and is capable of surpassing all the other abstracts in the DC universe--and no, a Dr. Fate statement won't cut it, panel feats or the words of a narrator is required.

You've created, or at least contributed to the Spectre respect thread so you can pull out the scans necessary--the alternative would be giving me the number of a specific issue. If you don't I'll take it as a concession from your part.

Similarly, when battling Koth Shuggoth, Corrigan's mind couldn't comprehend the level of power Spectre had. Corrigan was a simple minded beat cop from the 30s, who found himself linked to a piece of God.

And Spectre is a literal piece of God. This has been reitterated in Spectre comics for a long time.

Also reiterated in the first arc of volume 4, when Hal finally saw the true face of THE WRATH, he met The LOGOZ. Which invariably identified itself as part of God.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was Jim Corrigan's human mind that couldn't handle the perspective of the Source. Earlier in the series, during Final Night Spectre Crossover issue 47 of volume 3, a similar event happened, where he linked to the consciousness of the Earth to keep it alive a little longer. A simple task for the Spectre, but once again Corrigan couldn't hardly bear it.

Similarly, when battling Koth Shuggoth, Corrigan's mind couldn't comprehend the level of power Spectre had. Corrigan was a simple minded beat cop from the 30s, who found himself linked to a piece of God.

And Spectre is a literal piece of God. This has been reitterated in Spectre comics for a long time.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was Jim Corrigan's human mind that couldn't handle the perspective of the Source. Earlier in the series, during Final Night Spectre Crossover issue 47 of volume 3, a similar event happened, where he linked to the consciousness of the Earth to keep it alive a little longer. A simple task for the Spectre, but once again Corrigan couldn't hardly bear it.

Similarly, when battling Koth Shuggoth, Corrigan's mind couldn't comprehend the level of power Spectre had. Corrigan was a simple minded beat cop from the 30s, who found himself linked to a piece of God.

And Spectre is a literal piece of God. This has been reitterated in Spectre comics for a long time.

You can't have it both ways. If you claim it's the mortal minds that make him weak then it's the Spectre on his own. The Spectre on his own was duped by Eclipso to destroy the ninth age of magic.

The Spectre on his own cannot even grasp the right thing to do from the wrong thing to do. 😂

He is the spirit of vengeance as well and without a mortal host he has no direction.

Pre-Crisis Spctre was practically Omnipitnt was he not??
Spectre Stoms..

I sher it took 3 celestials to beat Galactus or soemthing though

Originally posted by BradBalboa
Pre-Crisis Spctre was practically Omnipitnt was he not??
Spectre Stoms..

I sher it took 3 celestials to beat Galactus or soemthing though

Originally posted by BradBalboa
Pre-Crisis Spctre was practically Omnipitnt was he not??
Spectre Stoms..

I sher it took 3 celestials to beat Galactus or soemthing though

Originally posted by id369

The Celestial evolved to a being of higher power. How much more powerful, we are uncertain of. But from the looks of it, far greater then his brethren before him.

Yes even Scathan since he does not show the physical traits of an evolved Celestial.

Taimut and the Fulcrum are both beneath the LT,
since the LT is second to TOAA in the current timeline.

Scathan > LT > Fulcrum/Taimut

This isn't a-b-c logic either, just a sense.

Spectre wins against any celestail.

Originally posted by skyfather
Spectre wins against any celestail.

Originally posted by id369
The Celestial evolved to a being of higher power. How much more powerful, we are uncertain of. But from the looks of it, far greater then his brethren before him. Yes even Scathan since he does not show the physical traits of an evolved Celestial.

so it's kinda unfair to say that Dreaming Celestial and Fulcrum are > Scathan because of how evolved the newer Celestial look.

Originally posted by kgkg

This is all new stuff though Marvel didn't have the ideal of Fulcrum back in 1992.

so it's kinda unfair to say that Dreaming Celestial and Fulcrum are > Scathan because of how evolved the newer Celestial look.

btw. That's 1997 🙂

But again, the LT is above them both,
which logically means Scathan is above either as well,
only to even a greater degree than the LT.

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆

btw. That's 1997 🙂

But again, the LT is above them both,
which logically means Scathan is above either as well,
only to even a greater degree than the LT.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was Jim Corrigan's human mind that couldn't handle the perspective of the Source.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was Jim Corrigan's human mind that couldn't handle the perspective of the Source. Earlier in the series, during Final Night Spectre Crossover issue 47 of volume 3, a similar event happened, where he linked to the consciousness of the Earth to keep it alive a little longer. A simple task for the Spectre, but once again Corrigan couldn't hardly bear it.

Similarly, when battling Koth Shuggoth, Corrigan's mind couldn't comprehend the level of power Spectre had. Corrigan was a simple minded beat cop from the 30s, who found himself linked to a piece of God.

And Spectre is a literal piece of God. This has been reitterated in Spectre comics for a long time.

Spectre's FP is never realized because of the limited human mind of its host.
And the only way Spectre can achieve FP is with a host.

I think it would be better if DC retcons Crispus and change the host into an 'omnipotent' being, like Phantom Stranger or someone else.
But it probably won't happen, since that would make Spectre unbeatable.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
👆

Spectre's FP is never realized because of the limited human minds of its host.
And the only way Spectre can achieve FP is with a host.

Originally posted by Astner
In the Day of Vengeance Spectre was without host, and was brought down by Captain Marvel (after empowered by by magicians)--overall he seemed a lot more restricted than the ordinary Spectre.

Originally posted by Juntai
And Spectre is a literal piece of God.

Everyone is a literal piece of God.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Taimut is the most powerful Celestial in the current timeline, (present 616)
Scathan is a beast from the future 1000 years from now. (future of 616 ... 691)

If someone wrote "JLA vs [suchandsuch]" we don't automatically assume alternate and future versions of the characters, but the current ones.

Otherwise, next time I see a JLA thread, I'm busting out the 1 million team, or something. 😄