Scathan vs. Tiamut

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Good grief man, all you do is assume. There is absolutely no on panel proof as to what the Fulcrum really is. The only suggestion to his power is when he undid what the Horde did to planet earth.

You assume that the Fulcrum created all Celestials, yet this is never mentioned, not once.

You assume that the Fulcrum is greater than the LT and the other high end abstracts, yet there's no proof of this, none.

You assume the Fulcrum is supreme because Tiamut said it was all powerful and all knowing, so what? Need I remind you how many times different beings have been referred to as being omnipotent or omniscient or both?

Scathan has something both Tiamut and the Fulcrum don't, on panel evidence to prove how powerful he is. How can this confuse you?

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Apparently you didn't read my post either. I said it doesn't matter what The Fulcrum is. If you go by whats said on panel then he's all knowing (that means he knows about Scathan). The Fulcrum could be the Janitor of the multiverse for all i care. All I know is that Tiamut (a celestial who even several other celestials couldn't kill) calls him all knowing and powerful. And then i know that the Fulcrum says he's the most powerful of them. Where in any of that is an assumption i've made and not something that is directly said on panel? Because i can post the scans AGAIN if you want? This time if need be i can hi-lite the exact lines i already quoted?

So, should I post when the Omniscient/Omnipotent entity known as the LT,
stated that ANY and ALL Realities rest on Protege's shoulders?

Yep, any and all ...

Yet, Protege got stomped by Scathan's gesture.

On Panel statement and action combined,
also confirmed in both the LT's bio and the Celestials.

But I guess you'll just come back with,
Taimut said, the Fulcrum is ... yippy yap.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Still with the hyperbolic statement?

So, should I post when the Omniscient/Omnipotent entity known as the LT,
stated that ANY and ALL Realities rest on Protege's shoulders?

Yep, [b]any and all ...

Yet, Protege got stomped by Scathan's gesture.

On Panel statement and action combined,
also confirmed in both the LT's bio and the Celestials.

But I guess you'll just come back with,
Taimut said, the Fulcrum is ... yippy yap. [/B]

Brothers tale of the Celestials and the Fulcrum

Hopefully, the Celestials return again

Another writer will prolly write something different. Maybe not

Its a mystery I like

Originally posted by guy222
Brothers tale of the Celestials and the Fulcrum

Hopefully, the Celestials return again

Another writer will prolly write something different. Maybe not

Its a mystery I like

I love it

Huge Celestial fan

I understand LDHZenkai and I wouldn't say he's been exaggerating, because he is saying everything that's been stated. But you are taking too much literally of what been said (for many being was said, omnipotent and many things, but they were far from that).
Logically, I can't say Fulcrum or Tiamut>LT just because of words and one showing of Fulcrum. On the other side, everything that has been said could be confirmed in the future and it's not out of the option that Fulcrum could be>LT. But now and logically that cannot be said.
But if that is expected and Fulcrum and therefore also Tiamut are above LT, then I will easily accept it. There were more beings that went above LT in power and I wouldn't be surprised, if also Wanda at her peak would beat LT.

About Fulcrum saying that Tiamut is the most powerful Celestial ever. Well, it's known that not all comics all always written with continuity and some things are also forgotten. Scathan had only one appearance and was never even mentioned after that anymore.

Jesus LDH answer me these questions...

1. Isn't it true the Fulcrum said that because Tiamut questioned things and thus broke the bond he showed A power equal to his own? Was he not talking about one particular aspect of power?

2. By on panel proof.. Did Tiamut call the Fulcrum all knowing and all powerful? Wouldn't that clearly seem to indicate that he's above Tiamut? Tiamut wasn't talking to him as an equal who is also all knowing and all powerful. He was talking to him as if he was well above him. Which further goes with question number one. You don't think it's possible he was saying you have equal power for one particular aspect of power.. questioning/conscience not overall power? Is that not possible?

3. He was ONLY saying Tiamut is the most powerful celestial he wasn't including other abstracts like LT or Eternity etc etc? He only called him the most powerful celestial not the most powerful being.

4. Haven't we seen statements such as most powerful, all knowing many times in marvel and your making an assumption that he's the TOAA and also an assumption that he's above the LT when really we only have one hyperbolic statement and not much more.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I understand LDHZenkai and I wouldn't say he's been exaggerating, because he is saying everything that's been stated. But you are taking too much literally of what been said (for many being was said, omnipotent and many things, but they were far from that).
Logically, I can't say Fulcrum or Tiamut>LT just because of words and one showing of Fulcrum. On the other side, everything that has been said could be confirmed in the future and it's not out of the option that Fulcrum could be>LT. But now and logically that cannot be said.
But if that is expected and Fulcrum and therefore also Tiamut are above LT, then I will easily accept it. There were more beings that went above LT in power and I wouldn't be surprised, if also Wanda at her peak would beat LT.

About Fulcrum saying that Tiamut is the most powerful Celestial ever. Well, it's known that not all comics all always written with continuity and some things are also forgotten. Scathan had only one appearance and was never even mentioned after that anymore.

👆

Originally posted by Mr Master
Still with the hyperbolic statement?

So, should I post when the Omniscient/Omnipotent entity known as the LT,
stated that ANY and ALL Realities rest on Protege's shoulders?

Yep, [b]any and all ...

Yet, Protege got stomped by Scathan's gesture.

On Panel statement and action combined,
also confirmed in both the LT's bio and the Celestials.

But I guess you'll just come back with,
Taimut said, the Fulcrum is ... yippy yap. [/B]

The Celestials, Horde, and the Watchers serve the Fulcrum. If the Fulcrum deems Tiamut the most power, because he evolved. Its not up to us the readers dictate otherwise.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Jesus LDH answer me these questions...

1. Isn't it true the Fulcrum said that because Tiamut questioned things and thus broke the bond he showed A power equal to his own? Was he not talking about one particular aspect of power?

2. By on panel proof.. Did Tiamut call the Fulcrum all knowing and all powerful? Wouldn't that clearly seem to indicate that he's above Tiamut? Tiamut wasn't talking to him as an equal who is also all knowing and all powerful. He was talking to him as if he was well above him. Which further goes with question number one. You don't think it's possible he was saying you have equal power for one particular aspect of power.. questioning/conscience not overall power? Is that not possible?

3. He was ONLY saying Tiamut is the most powerful celestial he wasn't including other abstracts like LT or Eternity etc etc? He only called him the most powerful celestial not the most powerful being.

4. Haven't we seen statements such as most powerful, all knowing many times in marvel and your making an assumption that he's the TOAA and also an assumption that he's above the LT when really we only have one hyperbolic statement and not much more.

1.He says he showed power equal to his own. He didn't say or imply that it was one single power.
2.Tiamut called him all powerful and whatnot before he went there and chatted it up with the fulcrum. When he was still trying to decide whether or not he was going to evolve past his initial programming. But sure it's possible what you said.
3.I never said Tiamut was stronger than LT. The question is is he stronger than Scathan the Celestial. According to The Fulcrum Tiamut is the strongest celestial ever. Ever being defined as at all times by the dictionary.
4.Like i said doesn't matter if he's above LT or anything like that. Scathan showed in one panel that he was able to restrain Protege so that LT could judge him. Inferring that that makes him more powerful than LT is an assumption on everyone elses part. but that really doesn't matter since the fulcrum said Tiamuts the most powerful celestial...and as far as too my knowledge Scathan is a Celestial.

Originally posted by id369
The Celestials, Horde, and the Watchers serve the Fulcrum. If the Fulcrum deems Tiamut the most power, because he evolved. Its not up to us the readers dictate otherwise.

👆

Scathan wins without trying.

::blows this thread up::

This has been a very interesting conversation, so I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this. Someone else mentioned this on another forum, but I can't remember where. It just made sense to me when I heard it.

Why did the Living Tribunal need Scathan when dealing with Protege?
Why does Eternity hold Scathan in such high regard?
Why does the BEYONDER hold Scathan's power in such high regard?

How did Scathan have the power to so easily stomp Protege after he replicated everyone else's powers including the Beyonder's and the Living Tribunal's?

Scathan may very well be a CELESTIAL FROM THE BEYOND REALM!!
This would easily explain his power.