Originally posted by Enyalus
He was manipulated into thinking he could've given his ex cancer, then lost his cool and went to Mars. Thanos is at bare minimum an Xavier-level telepath, considering he's easily bested Moondragon w/ Mind Gem in a mental duel, and she's taken it to Xavier.And the Doc sees past present and future of himself simultaneously. He sees it. Can't change it. So seeing whats going to happen is really irrelevant here.
But he can most entirely see an outcome and then change that aspect to another scenario. If he wanted to. e.g. the whole point of him and Sally having a talk on Mars.
and manipulated? he was stating how he's sick of human's bull shit. Not really the fact he gave her cancer or not, because you see, since he already knew the future to come, he knew he really didn't give them it. He himself does say that he is sick of humans and their human lives though, and the fact that Sally left him, he didn't want to be on earth more. It's not "manipulation" in the sense of what you are aiming for any way.
side note: Dr Manhattan has no organs. So, no resting and fixed spot for his 'mind'. He co-exists on all planes of time and can be any where. So where is Thanos going to lock into mind rape in the first place?
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
The eternals only have control over their body on an atomic level. Dr. Manhattan has control over sub-atomic structures. you're assuming just b/c thanos is thanos that his body can't be blown apart....yet other eternals have been destroyed by particle accelerators. Thanos does have some awesome feats...b/c they've been making comics about him for a very long time. Dr. M. had a very few issues to explore his new found abilities. And in those few issues his control was said to be complete over sub atomic particles and he was said to have limitless power. But then again i mean thanos is thanos so he automatically wins. And just b/c none of the other comic book characters use their matter manipulation to turn people into rocks or rip their neutrons apart doesn't mean dr. m. wouldn't. The Watchmen world is a lot more realistic when it comes to fighting with ones abilities (when it comes to doing what is necessary).
False. Eternals have total control over body structure. And please get these pitiful "because thanos is thanos" arguments out of here. Im NOT the one who is placin emphasis on character status. Im placing emphasis on character feats and actual displays of power. Thanos cant be blown apart because he has the power which Dr Manhattan uses to blow up people as well and to a higher level. Further he has complete control over his body structure and Dr Manhattans feats are not on a level hig enough to support him overcoming that.
Also the weakness of ur position is evident in ur continuous reliance on no limit fallacies. If sayin he has limitless power was evidence for a character to win a fight then, Thor,Hulk,Silver surfer,Sentry,Xman,Phoenix,Dr strange etc (who have all been described in comics as having limitles power) would never lose matches. However in order not to indulge in such ridiculous discussions we use the feats the characters accomplish to guage their abilities. Due to the few feats manhattan has its not easy to give an accurate description of his power level which is why i advocated for him to be removed from vs matches, However when he is placed in that vs environment we have to gauge is abilities on the feats he accomplished.
Manhattan CANT hurt thanos at all because thanos has proven abilities to counter evry possible way manhattan may attack. Thanos however can hurt manhattan(through) mental attacks which manhattan hasnt shown any resistance to
Originally posted by Voyeur
WRONG. HE CAN CHANGE IT, he chooses not to because he feels it isn't his place to play the role of god. He thinks he should let the chips lay as they may. He doesn't SEE IT, he lives in it by the way. He is co-existing. What you think of time, is linear. There was the past, there is going to be a future, and here is the present. That's how we perceive it. Dr. Manhattan experiences time more like that of a sphere. A continuing process and he exists on all planes of it. He actually is living the moments of past, present, and future, constantly. He just doesn't see them.But he can most entirely see an outcome and then change that aspect to another scenario. If he wanted to. e.g. the whole point of him and Sally having a talk on Mars.
and manipulated? he was stating how he's sick of human's bull shit. Not really the fact he gave her cancer or not, because you see, since he already knew the future to come, he knew he really didn't give them it. He himself does say that he is sick of humans and their human lives though, and the fact that Sally left him, he didn't want to be on earth more. It's not "manipulation" in the sense of what you are aiming for any way.
side note: Dr Manhattan has no organs. So, no resting and fixed spot for his 'mind'. He co-exists on all planes of time and can be any where. So where is Thanos going to lock into mind rape in the first place?
a) He stated he couldn't change the future. 'Puppets? We're all puppets. I can just see the strings' He is a puppet too, but he's aware of the ending of the performance as it were. He never changed the outcome of Mars. He stated that they would go home. It's like with the JFK thing. He could never stop it even though he new what was going to happen. And the JFK assassination was when he still cared for humanity.
b) Manhattan does have organs. The comic showed him reforming his organs. Nervous system, circulatory system, then skeleton/muscles
c) His mind is still human. It's just that he doesn't need a physical body for his conciousness to exist.
Originally posted by Naija boy
False. Eternals have total control over body structure. And please get these pitiful "because thanos is thanos" arguments out of here. Im NOT the one who is placin emphasis on character status. Im placing emphasis on character feats and actual displays of power. Thanos cant be blown apart because he has the power which Dr Manhattan uses to blow up people as well and to a higher level. Further he has complete control over his body structure and Dr Manhattans feats are not on a level hig enough to support him overcoming that.Also the weakness of ur position is evident in ur continuous reliance on no limit fallacies. If sayin he has limitless power was evidence for a character to win a fight then, Thor,Hulk,Silver surfer,Sentry,Xman,Phoenix,Dr strange etc (who have all been described in comics as having limitles power) would never lose matches. However in order not to indulge in such ridiculous discussions we use the feats the characters accomplish to guage their abilities. Due to the few feats manhattan has its not easy to give an accurate description of his power level which is why i advocated for him to be removed from vs matches, However when he is placed in that vs environment we have to gauge is abilities on the feats he accomplished.
Manhattan CANT hurt thanos at all because thanos has proven abilities to counter evry possible way manhattan may attack. Thanos however can hurt manhattan(through) mental attacks which manhattan hasnt shown any resistance to
Originally posted by Naija boywell, the few feats he does have show him to have almost limitless power
However when he is placed in that vs environment we have to gauge is abilities on the feats he accomplished.
he can transmute objects and matter of any kind, liquid, gas, solid
he can teleport himself or anyone or anything with the same ease you have of blinking to anywhere
he has complete grasp of temporal space scheme
he, like matter, cannot be destroyed
he can be any form, shape, size
he can create identical functioning copies of himself with independent thought, with no know limit to how many he can replicate
his consciousness is beyond our understanding...no indication telepathy would have ANY effect
he can destroy with a thought (ie he doesnt need to blast you with a ray, he just needs to visualize damaging you)
these feats are impressive in ANY universe by ANY character as most herald level characters don't even have a fraction of these powers.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfishb) Manhattan does have organs. The comic showed him reforming his organs. Nervous system, circulatory system, then skeleton/muscles
c) His mind is still human. It's just that he doesn't need a physical body for his conciousness to exist.
b) his body is purely superficial. he doesn't need organs or circulatory system or any of that.
c) then how the hell is it human if it doesn't need a physical body to exist?
Originally posted by Naija boy
False. Eternals have total control over body structure. And please get these pitiful "because thanos is thanos" arguments out of here. Im NOT the one who is placin emphasis on character status. Im placing emphasis on character feats and actual displays of power. Thanos cant be blown apart because he has the power which Dr Manhattan uses to blow up people as well and to a higher level. Further he has complete control over his body structure and Dr Manhattans feats are not on a level hig enough to support him overcoming that.Also the weakness of ur position is evident in ur continuous reliance on no limit fallacies. If sayin he has limitless power was evidence for a character to win a fight then, Thor,Hulk,Silver surfer,Sentry,Xman,Phoenix,Dr strange etc (who have all been described in comics as having limitles power) would never lose matches. However in order not to indulge in such ridiculous discussions we use the feats the characters accomplish to guage their abilities. Due to the few feats manhattan has its not easy to give an accurate description of his power level which is why i advocated for him to be removed from vs matches, However when he is placed in that vs environment we have to gauge is abilities on the feats he accomplished.
lol me saying that eternals can only control their atomic structure and not sub atomic is false? They used to only have molecular control then it got retconned to where they could reform from atoms. It was never stated they could reform from subatomic particles. And theres a difference in reforming from atoms to be able to consciously control your subatomic particles to prevent a being who can control them from doing so. Either way it doesn't matter because no one has been able to say how thanos could kill Dr. M. yet theres been multiple ways given that manhattan could kill thanos (a million doctor manhattans blasting and manipulating thano's sub atomic structure for one).
he, like matter, cannot be destroyed
You mean like energy. People destroy matter all the time.
he can destroy with a thought (ie he doesnt need to blast you with a ray, he just needs to visualize damaging you
All of his kills involved pointing/blasting someone. He pointed at the gangsters head and it exploded, and he fired a blast at Rorschach.
Can't remember any of his other kills.
he can be any form, shape, size
Only true one of those is size. He never showed any shape/mass shifting.
these feats are impressive in ANY universe by ANY character as most herald level characters don't even have a fraction of these powers.
Thor, Surfer, Green Lantern, Firestorm and many others have equal or greater powersets. The furthest we see Manhattan teleport is to Mars. Which for a herald teleported is pathetic, as from Marvel alone- Quasar, Red Shift, Thor and Beta Ray Bill, along with many other heralds have teleported across galaxies.
Originally posted by Starscream M
b) his body is purely superficial. he doesn't need organs or circulatory system or any of that.c) then how the hell is it human if it doesn't need a physical body to exist?
It's never stated he doesn't need his organs. Like, ever.
Quite a few characters that are still humans exist w/o physical bodies. Its comics.
The fact is Manhattan never showed any telepathic functions, and his few feats of matter manipulation are outclassed by Thanos' skrull to stone thing. And many of Surfer's feats.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
It amazes me how people seem to not understand physics here....or logic.
Originally posted by VoyeurYes, physics and logic dictate comics. duryes
UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE ****ING DAY!none of anyone in any of the threads really know how to apply common sense, academic knowledge of math, physics, science, time or space, NOTHING, they know jack shit.
they're idiot trolls. (this is a some what hypocritical statement, as I tend to troll except for when I'm not trolling)
this isn't really a personal shot at anyone in particular or you guys. So yeah :]
As for trolls, it appears you two are the people trolling......I suggest stopping the flaming, baiting and trolling. These types of blanket statements aren't wanted here. Thanks.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfishum, the fact that he survived without organs...ie being molecularized...is prob a good indication that he doesn't need organs. what, do you need him to spell that out?
It's never stated he doesn't need his organs. Like, ever.
what does he need organs for? he doesn't eat, he doesn't breath.
Originally posted by Starscream M
um, the fact that he survived without organs...ie being molecularized...is prob a good indication that he doesn't need organs. what, do you need him to spell that out?what does he need organs for? he doesn't eat, he doesn't breath.
If he doesn't need a body why does he bother with one?
These questions are pointless as noone has any idea how his powers work. Thats why he's annoying in vs battles. No feats and an open powerset.
It's like if Surfer had only appeared once, stated his powers then flew to comic limbo.
Originally posted by Badabing
Yes, physics and logic dictate comics. duryesAs for trolls, it appears you two are the people trolling......I suggest stopping the flaming, baiting and trolling. These types of blanket statements aren't wanted here. Thanks.
Even comics. Just another example....
Originally posted by Starscream M
well, the few feats he does have show him to have almost limitless powerhe can transmute objects and matter of any kind, liquid, gas, solid
he can teleport himself or anyone or anything with the same ease you have of blinking to anywhere
he has complete grasp of temporal space scheme
he, like matter, cannot be destroyed
he can be any form, shape, size
he can create identical functioning copies of himself with independent thought, with no know limit to how many he can replicate
his consciousness is beyond our understanding...no indication telepathy would have ANY effect
he can destroy with a thought (ie he doesnt need to blast you with a ray, he just needs to visualize damaging you)
these feats are impressive in ANY universe by ANY character as most herald level characters don't even have a fraction of these powers.
Jeez this gets more ridiculous with evry post. I can probly name two powers of silver surfer for evryone manhattan has. Probly three. Does surfer have limitless power? Is saying "surfer has limitless power now a coherent argument? Get this shit outta here.
1. He has shown extremely limited form of transmutation. transmuting objects and gas has no relevance here. Its a useless tactic against thanos who has superior transmutation feats to manhattan( actualy transmuted a being with complete control of his molecular structure). His tranmsmutation skills also pale in comparison to the likes of Surfer, Sersi,Firestorm, non of whom we would argue based solely on the presumption of "limitless power"
2. Either surfer or thanos can teleport themselves and others to any place they feel like.They have even shown greater range than he has by teleporting to different dimensions.
3. Surfer can look through as well as travel through time just as well.
4.Unproven. In his limited universe he has faced only physical means of destruction. Guys like surfer and thanos have more options than that.
5. Once again, to what extent was such displayed? Surfer has actually shown reat ability to chane his size and shape as well.
6. Creating copies of himself is nice. Surfer can do so as well, and you know what? Surfer hasnt told us any limit to how many he can create.
7. This really cracked me up. His consciousness is beyond our understanding? He lived in a world were no one had superpowers. IT being beyond their understanding is only expected. There was no high level telepath in that world. So to use that to claim high telepathy wont work is laughable.
8. Either thanos or silver surfer can destroy with a thought thanks to matter manipulation.
So thats it? Thats why u feel that claiming he has "limitless power" is a sufficient arguement in itself? Freaking pathetic. Thanos almost matched him power for power and had those abilities on higher levels. I could go ahead and name ten abilities that surfer has which he doesnt and surfer still doesnt qualify as having "limitless power".
Really this just gets worse and worse.lol
Originally posted by VoyeurLast chance to drop it. Stay on topic and be civil. Thanks.
common sense exists in everything. Everything is restricted to a confine of it's existence of rules of regulations and being.Even comics. Just another example....
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=461496&pagenumber=1#post11581666
Originally posted by AlmightyKfishprob because the artist who created the character felt he looked cool like that.
If he doesn't need a body why does he bother with one?
Originally posted by AlmightyKfishit sorta of is...if surfer in his one appearance created multiple clones of himself, saw time as a constant, could reform instantly as molecules, teleport to different parts of the universe in the blink of an eye, transmute matter with ease, grow to giant size, etc etc.
It's like if Surfer had only appeared once, stated his powers then flew to comic limbo.
I mean for a guy with only basically one appearance, Dr. M has a boatload of feats...of course, they're not comparable to guys with hundreds of comics, but to say Dr. M has no feats is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Jeez this gets more ridiculous with evry post. I can probly name two powers of silver surfer for evryone manhattan has. Probly three. Does surfer have limitless power? Is saying "surfer has limitless power now a coherent argument? Get this shit outta here.1. He has shown extremely limited form of transmutation. transmuting objects and gas has no relevance here. Its a useless tactic against thanos who has superior transmutation feats to manhattan( actualy transmuted a being with complete control of his molecular structure). His tranmsmutation skills also pale in comparison to the likes of Surfer, Sersi,Firestorm, non of whom we would argue based solely on the presumption of "limitless power"
2. Either surfer or thanos can teleport themselves and others to any place they feel like.They have even shown greater range than he has by teleporting to different dimensions.
3. Surfer can look through as well as travel through time just as well.
4.Unproven. In his limited universe he has faced only physical means of destruction. Guys like surfer and thanos have more options than that.
5. Once again, to what extent was such displayed? Surfer has actually shown reat ability to chane his size and shape as well.
6. Creating copies of himself is nice. Surfer can do so as well, and you know what? Surfer hasnt told us any limit to how many he can create.
7. This really cracked me up. His consciousness is beyond our understanding? He lived in a world were no one had superpowers. IT being beyond their understanding is only expected. There was no high level telepath in that world. So to use that to claim high telepathy wont work is laughable.
8. Either thanos or silver surfer can destroy with a thought thanks to matter manipulation.
So thats it? Thats why u feel that claiming he has "limitless power" is a sufficient arguement in itself? Freaking pathetic. Thanos almost matched him power for power and had those abilities on higher levels. I could go ahead and name ten abilities that surfer has which he doesnt and surfer still doesnt qualify as having "limitless power".
Really this just gets worse and worse.lol
1. he has shown limited transmutation? yeah, cuz he was only in 1 issue. but neither has there been a limit to his transmutation...ie I can't say he can transmute better than thanos, and you can't say thanos can transmute better than Dr. m.
2. could surfer teleport? yes, like you said. but certainly not with the ease that Dr. M has demonstrated. or else why would surfer travel on the board...I'm sure instantaneous is faster than whatever speed he gets on the board.
3. how does surfer travel through time? Im asking seriously because that seems a bit of a godlike power to me. and why doesnt he change the past then?
4. unproven works both ways. I can't say with absolute certainty he can't be destroyed, and neither can you say he can be. we do know he has reformed from atoms and survived without a body.
5. he grew about the size of Galactus. again, good for surfer if he could do so as well...maybe he should do so in his fights, since bigger is better...all else being equal.
6. again, surfer can create copies of himself? why doesn't he do that in battles against tough opponents...certainly would be helpful to have multiple surfers rather than just one if you're fighting thanos, wouldnt you agree?
7. I never said telepathy won't work. But it certainly isn't a given that it will since his consciousness is so different from human minds.
8. nice, too bad they don't do so more often then, as surfer and thanos are pretty much always trying to destroy with their blasts. it would seem more efficient to destroy with just a thought if they were so capable.
Originally posted by Badabing
Yes, physics and logic dictate comics. duryesAs for trolls, it appears you two are the people trolling......I suggest stopping the flaming, baiting and trolling. These types of blanket statements aren't wanted here. Thanks.
Im a troll because i said people should logically assume if you can manipulate the sub atomic particles of a small object then you can a big one? And the writers of The Watchmen said they wanted it to be as close to science fact when developing dr. manhattan as they could do it. I think those are both very good points in a dr. m vs anyone thread. I never attacked anyone just stated the facts about dr. m....