Aizen vs. Trunks

Aizen can manipulate feelings inside of the body though, as he himself confirms. If you feel something as well as sense something then for you it is real. So yes to an extent he can control the body.With manipulations of the senses that would be a simple thing to do. For example we have dreams, in which a person is absolutely positive that they just moved their right arm to fend of Bill Clintons sexual advances, when in fact they are just lying in bed. Victims of hypnosis (directly linked to Aizens ability) also suffer from think, imagining themselves from sense information to be sitting at a bar with Little Nicky, when instead they are standing in front of a laughing audience, or else have the experience of being a dog. I can see however, your problem with this, which is that the hypnosis doesn't effect cognitive abilities, so while Trunks will feel like a dog, he won't think that he's a dog. However, he will still be cut off from his abilities, being unable to feel them in the slightest and thus won't be able to do anything even when Aizen is drowning him, gouging out his eyeballs, scooping out his brain Egyption style or packing him in a rocket and blasting him into the sun.

Also,Spatial awareness is created by the brain based upon information from the senses, for example perceiving a bottle to be right in front of you when in fact its 1 centre meter too the left.

but he hasnt, he has only shown people sights/sounds/sense of touch OUTSIDE themselves. he has never given any person phantom limbs or made any1 beleive that they had three legs or made any1 mistake their head for the enemy's hand. THAT is the whole point, he cant manipulate your brain like that, he can only create illusions OUTSIDE your body.

also, your using science here which leads to conclusions which the mangaka obviously had not thought of.

Already dealt with, as it is.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence. While Aizen's ability has never been used on a being as 'highly evolved' as Trunks, it is mere speculation to say that this will stop him from being able to influence Trunks. There is nothing to indicate that Trunks as any sort of resistance too it.

infinite fallacy. its like saying, i can throw a 50 pound rock ten feat away, hence i can conclude from this, unless sum1 can prove otherwise, that i can also throw a 10 ton car 20 feat away since it is a progression of strength and i have never FAILED at performing the said feat. {so in fact negetive evidence works against you here if you look closer}

She would. If he had no defence against it. Luckily for Big G however he has advanced cognative abilities to contend with psychics. Trunks on the other hand has no evolutionary defence to the power of a zanpakto. And theres nothing to suggest that he does.

again with the infinite fallacy, cud aizen hypnotize imperiex?

awesrg Maybe Aizen can't manipulate too many people on that scale at once. Maybe the key is somewhere he can't find. Maybe it's just PIS. I'm just taking Aizens power too it's logical conclusion however.

.....

And how fast is Frieza?

no evidence, conjecture. its clearly evidence that he doesnt have the powerset that people are conferring on him.

fast enough to be invisible to the z warriors at ranges which cover the horizon even at base strength while holding back. even vegeta at the time cud go to nearly orbital height in a few seconds. the difference in speed is very clear.

Pfft, I'm not debating two people at once, I'll respond to Leonheartmm's points and then I'm not going to continue with him.

but he hasnt, he has only shown people sights/sounds/sense of touch OUTSIDE themselves. he has never given any person phantom limbs or made any1 beleive that they had three legs or made any1 mistake their head for the enemy's hand. THAT is the whole point, he cant manipulate your brain like that, he can only create illusions OUTSIDE your body.

Except he has clearly stated that he can do so. What you're suggesting is if we doubted Soi Fon's stinger ability if we had never seen her kill someone with it. If someones said that they can do something, there's little reason to doubt them. And he hasn't done so because he's never been able to sufficiently display his powers. Until he does so we have to assume what his powers are judging from what he has shown/alluded to.

infinite fallacy. its like saying, i can throw a 50 pound rock ten feat away, hence i can conclude from this, unless sum1 can prove otherwise, that i can also throw a 10 ton car 20 feat away since it is a progression of strength and i have never FAILED at performing the said feat. {so in fact negetive evidence works against you here if you look closer}

Luckily someone can prove otherwise, in that humans (assuming you are human 😖hifty: ) have never been able to use such massive forces and there are clearly established limits to what they are capable of. Dragonballers have never shown anything in relation to resisting the effects of a zanpakto, so it is a fallacy to assume that they can. Unless you can come up with a valid reason for why they should be able to.

again with the infinite fallacy, cud aizen hypnotize imperiex?

Probably, if he had no defense, or any reasonable way of resisting.

@ Dadudemon

WTF? He was an effin' captain. Tell me again how being a captain shows how Aizen hid his strength?

Becuse people would have been more surspicious of him if he'd shown his real power of twice captain level. Also, didn't Ikkaku say that Kenpachi was the strongest captain, (Yamamoto's a general) which wouldn't be the case if Aizen was cutting loose. Furthermore, if people had sensed his power then wouldn't he have been assigned to the Royal Guard, where above captains are sent. Moreover, no-one sensed his power when they thought he was dead. Finally, he was clearly already above captain level when he was Shinji's subordinate, which wouldn't make sense if people didn't wonder why he was still just a lieutenant with that kind of power.

Goku's power level is over 9000. no expression

Go read a wiki. Feats have already been posted.

I have. All it ever says is 'superhuman speed' or something equally gay

It does say that Goku's powerlevel is closer too 3,000,000 though.

Also, to put the speed in context, look at the scene at 1:13. Piccolo punches Frieza a mile or two away and almost instantly covers that distance.

Nah, if it was a mile away we wouldn't even be able to see the bugger. I'd say it's more like the size of a medium-sized field, judging from the one outside my house. And Bleachers weaker and slower than Aizen have matched both distence/speeds.

1. Trunks defeated a bunch of soldiers, each much stronger than a regular human. It was just a mere flash, and all of them collapsed.

The same with Yoruichi.

2. Trunks power was said to be much larger than the new and improved Frieza's, and that's before he did any sort of training in the Hyperbolic time chamber to become much much stronger

Actually, didn't Gohan say that the Frieza Trunks fought was nowhere near the power he had shown against Goku.

3. Trunks was much faster than the new and improved Frieza, the same Frieza that could cover miles in less than a second (See his fight, well before he powered up to his ultimate form, with Piccolo.) Even before powering up to his ultimate form, Frieza was much faster than Piccolo, and we saw piccolo move a mile or two very quickly. That should put in to perspective how fast the DB fighters are...considering their powers increase many times over before we get to the cell saga.

Yes I agree that DBers are very fast , but I still don't think that they are fast enough to Blitz Aizen right off the bat. Plus, doesn't Trunks get slower if he goes Supersaiyan?

He used on the original Vizard to save them from turning into hallows.

Ah.

I'll give you, based on your logic, that they will talk first. Trunks will even give Aizen the chance to use his Bankai, imo.

So he's stupid......mmm

I'd say that their energy is as physical as it gets, here:

Poop.

I blame faulty information here. Someone told me that would be why DB ki wouldn't effect Bleacher's. Shall have to punish that one.

Also, if you'll notice, Goku stopped a volcanic eruption with just his mind, without moving an inch. no expression Who's to say Trunks wouldn't just control Aizen with his mind? AHA! lol Aizen isn't even close to being strong enough to resist being physically manipulated IF Trunks wanted to do so. However, Trunks never shows that he does that in fights. It isn't a "special" power of Goku, either, in case you wanted to go that direction. The stronger the character, the more they can do with their mind.

I think you're underestimating Bleach strength. Aizen did block that wolf-heads blow like it was a sponge. The same guy who threw that scyscraper-sized hollow like a ragdoll.

And I've already said that if Trunks manages to full-on attack Aizen it's pretty much over, so the TK won't make a difference.

And, no, the DB character's Ki is every bit as physical as anything else done in Bleach. In Bleach, it is just...in.....much much smaller amounts. For some reason, however, Bleach people are susceptible to someone with much higher energy levels. It causes them to be weak, sweat, and in cases that it is much much higher, it causes them to pass out./quote]

Sorry, but that video didn't really show ant evidence of ki being dense or crushing, like it is in Bleach. If anything it was the opposite, attracting stuff too it.

[quote] When Frieza and Trunks were fighting, all the Z-fighters were shitting bricks and sweating. They were very much frightened. Now, I'll give you that the energy of Bleach characters makes other characters sweat and become weak...which DB characters seem immune to the passing out. Since it is the same thing, Aizen still goes down.

It isn't the same thing though, you even said that it was because they were scared, not becuase of the actual power. Ki in Dragon Ball has never been shown to have the same effects as spirit energy in Bleach. Personally I would advocate abandoning this line of thought, as it'll probably degenerate into a 'is too' 'is not' argument.

Hell, Trunks would only have to flex his Ki, like Frieza and Goku did, and it destroys Aizen.

Pfft, took them freakin' ages to do it though, Aizen could have popped to the shop's by the end, let alone attack or anything.

Funny you should mention that. Many speculate that Yamamoto knew all along what Aizen was doing. He was not surprised at all at Aizen's appearance when he was supposed to be dead, and he wasn't at all surprised at Aizen's betrayal, hinting that his Illusion technique only works on those weaker than him.

Huh. I always thought it was becuase he was told all about it like 5 minutes before by blond lieutenant.

Anyway, my analysis of this fiht is that if Trunk's can blitz from the star, or land several attack on him (Aizen can probably take at least one, see Ulquiorra's javelin attack) then he undoubtably takes it. But if Aizen can hypnotise him he can most likely win. I'd call it a 50/50 split, with perhaps Aizen edging t if I have to pick one.

So basically it's boiling down to whether or not Aizen can succesfully hypnotize Trunks?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Becuse people would have been more surspicious of him if he'd shown his real power of twice captain level. Also, didn't Ikkaku say that Kenpachi was the strongest captain, (Yamamoto's a general) which wouldn't be the case if Aizen was cutting loose. Furthermore, if people had sensed his power then wouldn't he have been assigned to the Royal Guard, where above captains are sent. Moreover, no-one sensed his power when they thought he was dead. Finally, he was clearly already above captain level when he was Shinji's subordinate, which wouldn't make sense if people didn't wonder why he was still just a lieutenant with that kind of power.

Uh...no.

Sorry.

You would have a point IF Aizen wasn't a captain. However, as TGE pointed out in the Official Bleach thread, the difference between Lieutenant and captain is vast. At no point in the series is it every stated implied that Aizen hid his vast powers. The only thing he lied about, concerning his powers, is his Zanpakutou's ability.

Oh, and, going by your logic, Urahara would be going to the royal guard, so would Kenpachi, and so would Yamamoto.

And, no, Yamamoto is the strongest captin. His Reiryoku is greater than Aizen's. He made two of the oldest and strongest captains sweet by just releasing his Zanpakutou. And, I would put Kenpachi after Yamamoto in Reiryoku, then Aizen a close third, then Ichigo.

And clearly above captain level? What grounds do you have? None. Nothing. He performed a level 90 kidou, that's it. Other than that, he didn't do anything to suggest his power during that 110 years ago story. I'll give you that a level 90 kidou attack is quite powerful...however, it as to protect himself from another level 90 attack.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have. All it ever says is 'superhuman speed' or something equally gay

Then you can easily watch the damn videos I posted. Piccolo, who isn't anywhere near supersaiyan in that video, could travel several miles in less than a second, far faster than the Shupu we see of the Kuchiki in Bleach.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It does say that Goku's powerlevel is closer too 3,000,000 though.

It never says that, canonically. Read an official wiki, don't read that fan shit. Goku's power level is much much higher than 3 million. Trunks, as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah, if it was a mile away we wouldn't even be able to see the bugger.

Dude, you have no clue about DBZ, then. Didn't I already cover that they can sense people approaching from outer effin' space? Watch the trunks saga. It's like 8 episodes long.

It has a nice scene were Bulma mentions not being able to see anything that's going on and she complains because all the other Z fighters can tell exactly what's going on with a fight, quite a distance away.

And, yes, if you look at the distance, Frieza almost disappears into the horizon. That's miles in less than a second, then Piccolo flies really fast in that direction and almost immediately catches up with Frieza.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd say it's more like the size of a medium-sized field, judging from the one outside my house. And Bleachers weaker and slower than Aizen have matched both distence/speeds.

You can believe that, but it doesn't keep you from being wrong, now does it? Seriously, stop being a fanboy, watch all of the vids and watch Frieza and Goku span miles at a time as they exchange each blow...blows, mind you, that change the entire environment around them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The same with Yoruichi.

Indeed, but Trunks did it at waaay less than supersaiyan, bro. 😬

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, didn't Gohan say that the Frieza Trunks fought was nowhere near the power he had shown against Goku.

Not a chance in anyone's lifetime, bub.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes I agree that DBers are very fast , but I still don't think that they are fast enough to Blitz Aizen right off the bat. Plus, doesn't Trunks get slower if he goes Supersaiyan?

Uh, no. Not a chance. They are many times faster than Bleach Characters. Some feats put them at relativistic speeds.

And, no, dude. You're getting confused. When Trunks goes Ultimate Supersaiyan, he does get slower. However, his speed is still so great that you could tenth his speed and he would still vastly eclipse any bleach character.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ah.

So he's stupid......mmm

🤨 If you consider a super genius stupid, then, yes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Poop.

I blame faulty information here. Someone told me that would be why DB ki wouldn't effect Bleacher's. Shall have to punish that one.

You're better off watching the entire series, on your own.

http://www.idragonball.com/

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think you're underestimating Bleach strength.

Not a chance. 😉

Originally posted by Nephthys
Aizen did block that wolf-heads blow like it was a sponge. The same guy who threw that scyscraper-sized hollow like a ragdoll.

Indeed. But, in context, one time, he's not going all out, in another, he is going all out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I've already said that if Trunks manages to full-on attack Aizen it's pretty much over, so the TK won't make a difference.

Trunks doesn't fight with TK, but he could if he wanted.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't the same thing though, you even said that it was because they were scared, not becuase of the actual power. Ki in Dragon Ball has never been shown to have the same effects as spirit energy in Bleach. Personally I would advocate abandoning this line of thought, as it'll probably degenerate into a 'is too' 'is not' argument.

No. There are so many similarities. It's the same thing. If you are going to compare the two universes, you have to come to a common ground. Common ground is Reiryoku = Ki. The DBZ characters just don't know how to manipulate it, magically, like Naruto characters or Bleach characters.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pfft, took them freakin' ages to do it though, Aizen could have popped to the shop's by the end, let alone attack or anything.

If you actually knew enough about DB to make an arugment against it, you'd know that Trunks, on multiple occasions, can instantly go Supersaiyan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Huh. I always thought it was becuase he was told all about it like 5 minutes before by blond lieutenant.

No.

Think about it...Why would Bleach fans speculate that if it were so easily explained?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anyway, my analysis of this fiht is that if Trunk's can blitz from the star, or land several attack on him (Aizen can probably take at least one, see Ulquiorra's javelin attack) then he undoubtably takes it. But if Aizen can hypnotise him he can most likely win. I'd call it a 50/50 split, with perhaps Aizen edging t if I [b]have to pick one. [/B]

I'd say, since Aizen doesn't even have a chance to damage Trunks in anyway, that Trunks wins it, everytime.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pfft, I'm not debating two people at once, I'll respond to Leonheartmm's points and then I'm not going to continue with him.

Except he has clearly stated that he can do so. What you're suggesting is if we doubted Soi Fon's stinger ability if we had never seen her kill someone with it. If someones said that they can do something, there's little reason to doubt them. And he hasn't done so because he's never been able to sufficiently display his powers. Until he does so we have to assume what his powers are judging from what he has shown/alluded to.

Luckily someone can prove otherwise, in that humans (assuming you are human 😖hifty: ) have never been able to use such massive forces and there are clearly established limits to what they are capable of. Dragonballers have never shown anything in relation to resisting the effects of a zanpakto, so it is a fallacy to assume that they can. Unless you can come up with a valid reason for why they should be able to.

Probably, if he had no defense, or any reasonable way of resisting.

@ Dadudemon

Becuse people would have been more surspicious of him if he'd shown his real power of twice captain level. Also, didn't Ikkaku say that Kenpachi was the strongest captain, (Yamamoto's a general) which wouldn't be the case if Aizen was cutting loose. Furthermore, if people had sensed his power then wouldn't he have been assigned to the Royal Guard, where above captains are sent. Moreover, no-one sensed his power when they thought he was dead. Finally, he was clearly already above captain level when he was Shinji's subordinate, which wouldn't make sense if people didn't wonder why he was still just a lieutenant with that kind of power.

I have. All it ever says is 'superhuman speed' or something equally gay

It does say that Goku's powerlevel is closer too 3,000,000 though.

Nah, if it was a mile away we wouldn't even be able to see the bugger. I'd say it's more like the size of a medium-sized field, judging from the one outside my house. And Bleachers weaker and slower than Aizen have matched both distence/speeds.

The same with Yoruichi.

Actually, didn't Gohan say that the Frieza Trunks fought was nowhere near the power he had shown against Goku.

Yes I agree that DBers are very fast , but I still don't think that they are fast enough to Blitz Aizen right off the bat. Plus, doesn't Trunks get slower if he goes Supersaiyan?

Ah.

So he's stupid......mmm

Poop.

I blame faulty information here. Someone told me that would be why DB ki wouldn't effect Bleacher's. Shall have to punish that one.

I think you're underestimating Bleach strength. Aizen did block that wolf-heads blow like it was a sponge. The same guy who threw that scyscraper-sized hollow like a ragdoll.

And I've already said that if Trunks manages to full-on attack Aizen it's pretty much over, so the TK won't make a difference.

It isn't the same thing though, you even said that it was because they were scared, not becuase of the actual power. Ki in Dragon Ball has never been shown to have the same effects as spirit energy in Bleach. Personally I would advocate abandoning this line of thought, as it'll probably degenerate into a 'is too' 'is not' argument.

Pfft, took them freakin' ages to do it though, Aizen could have popped to the shop's by the end, let alone attack or anything.

Huh. I always thought it was becuase he was told all about it like 5 minutes before by blond lieutenant.

Anyway, my analysis of this fiht is that if Trunk's can blitz from the star, or land several attack on him (Aizen can probably take at least one, see Ulquiorra's javelin attack) then he undoubtably takes it. But if Aizen can hypnotise him he can most likely win. I'd call it a 50/50 split, with perhaps Aizen edging t if I [b]have to pick one. [/B]

but he hasnt, he has never clearly stated to control all senses in a way that the person loses his or her senese of self. not only have ILLUSIONS and sense control traditionally been limited to things which characters percieve OUTSIDE themselves, but also, he has NEVER demonstrated any such abilitiy. it is very apparent that the mangaka didnt have your translation in mind when he said controlling the senes {e.g. making the person feal pain/forgetting limbs/fall asleap etc} illusionists can not control the BODY that way.

no, REOSONABLE people can claim that it is nigh improbable that the person cant do such a thing, but until the time that the actual feat is tried by the person, no1 can say for sure that its impossible. so the infinite fallacy remains, right now, your sounding similar to burning thought and his kain threads.

again, there is no way in HELL that aizen can harm trunks or defeat him.

and LMAO, did you HONESTLY just claim that aizen cud hypnotise imperiex?!?!?!?!?!!

This thread is so stupid I think I'll post this picture in it every day until it stops getting replies, and I'll still be making more intelligent contributions than the Aizen wankers

D'aaaawwww, that is the cutest rebuttal I've seen in a while! Thanks, Mike! 😄

YouTube video

Trunks wins.

Bad loop is Bad, but still funny.

Yeah I wish there was a better vid of Trunks with the song but couldn't find one.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but he hasnt, he has never clearly stated to control all senses in a way that the person loses his or her senese of self. not only have ILLUSIONS and sense control traditionally been limited to things which characters percieve OUTSIDE themselves, but also, he has NEVER demonstrated any such abilitiy. it is very apparent that the mangaka didnt have your translation in mind when he said controlling the senes {e.g. making the person feal pain/forgetting limbs/fall asleap etc} illusionists can not control the BODY that way.

no, REOSONABLE people can claim that it is nigh improbable that the person cant do such a thing, but until the time that the actual feat is tried by the person, no1 can say for sure that its impossible. so the infinite fallacy remains, right now, your sounding similar to burning thought and his kain threads.

again, there is no way in HELL that aizen can harm trunks or defeat him.

and LMAO, did you HONESTLY just claim that aizen cud hypnotise imperiex?!?!?!?!?!!

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
so despite the fact in the manga and the anime it says he controls the senses you don't think he does? You can hypnotize people to not feel pain in real life, but you think that it can't occur in an imaginary world? Also it seems you capitalized the wrong words each and every time you did. And it's already been explained how with illusion aizen could get trunks to fly into space. He would realize he couldn't breath for some reason once he got there, but all he would be seeing is that he's still on earth flying around so he wouldn't be able to find his way out. The only way trunks wins this is if we ignore Aizens character and strategic planning abilities, ignore KMC vs rules, and don't let Aizen start out with his zanpaktou out. Either that or trunks just blows up the planet, in which case he would die shortly after.

Try to be nice to him about language. English is not his first language.

And, no, Aizen's illusions were never shown to influence people to do crazy stuff like that, only to mask things. One of my classmates, a big supporter of Aizen, said that if Aizen manipulated the illusion environment too much, it would lose it's ability to fool the victim. I agree. Aizen can't do crazy stupid stuff with it or it would make it too obvious. We never see Aizen do things like cause people to fly into the sun or cut themselves. It's possible he doesn't even have the ability to do so.

Also, I still can't believe you think Aizen has a chance that's even close to being able to touch Trunks. I went back and watched some DBZ where Trunks fights Perfect Cell. Vegeta, who was weaker than Trunks, flew through several mountains, for dozens of miles, in less than 3 seconds. He eventually powered up enough to slow his momentum. Trunks is stronger than Vegeta. Also, watching the show, it looked like Trunks had three levels of power against cell. One was regular supersaiyan. Another was his Ascended Saiyan level...and he fought evenly with Cell for a while in that form...each hitting the other...whereas, Vegeta, kicked Cell in the head as hard as he could and it didn't even phase cell. In this second level of power, Andriod 16, an android stronger than a Supersaiyan that had better sensor technology than 18 and 17, said he couldn't follow Trunks and Cell's speeds. They were fighting so fast that a super souped up Android with uber sensors couldn't keep up with their speed.

And then, Trunks powered up all the way int Ultra Supersaiyan and was stronger than Cell, but slower. In this form, Trunks loses energy must faster to keep up this high power output.

Now, I told you all of that to tell you that Perfect Cell flew so fast that created that "atmospheric" re-entry flame when he was leaving Earth.
He then stopped a Gigantic asteroid with one hand and then show it to thousands of pieces. If Trunks can make himself stronger than that, and he was on par with speed in his second supersaiyan form, then how can Aizen even stand a chance, in speed and strenght, to Trunks? We are talking a scale difference of hundreds or more in speed and strength. Durability is no question. Aizen doesn't even come close to Trunks in durability. Trunks was completely unaffected by the same sword that diced to pieces a character that could withstand a planet exploding.

Still going on? You know what that means:

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Still going on? You know what that means:

It'sa pad suppy!

Everytime someone posts debate words in Aizen's favor, Tetsuo kills that puppy. What's why it's so sad. In case your wondering, he brings it back so it can give the sad face.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Everytime someone posts debate words in Aizen's favor, Tetsuo kills that puppy. What's why it's so sad. In case your wondering, he brings it back so it can give the sad face.

Woe ho ho ho!

That will certainly make Fat Buu angry...

Majin Buu mad! Pow pow pow! Ow Ow Ow! Buu blow steam! Make dead!

@ the Aizen supporters in this topic 131

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Majin Buu mad! Pow pow pow! Ow Ow Ow! Buu blow steam! Make dead!

@ the Aizen supporters in this topic 131

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

I had tears, man!

😆

This debate should have ended with the first post. Seriously.

So wait everyones still saying trunks wins despite the fact he wouldn't be able to see, hear, feel, smell or sense Aizen? So many dumb kids frequent the anime versus board :-/