The Old Republic before the Ruusan Reformation spanned like 24,000 years. Which era are these in? I assume KotOR.
The Infinite Empire is virtually unknown in terms of technology. All we have on them is the Star Forge, the Ancient Temple, and that Mind Prison. We've got nothing in the way of ships.
Malak's Sith would lose to the GAR. I also assume that this is the GAR circa RotS? With the RoTS Jedi to combat the Dark Jedi and Sith acolytes? If that is the case, I'd give it to the GAR.
On second thought, depending on the era, do the Old Republic get the Jedi of their time too? Or is this a straight non-Force contest sans Malak's men?
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The Old Republic before the Ruusan Reformation spanned like 24,000 years. Which era are these in? I assume KotOR.The Infinite Empire is virtually unknown in terms of technology. All we have on them is the Star Forge, the Ancient Temple, and that Mind Prison. We've got nothing in the way of ships.
Malak's Sith would lose to the GAR. I also assume that this is the GAR circa RotS? With the RoTS Jedi to combat the Dark Jedi and Sith acolytes? If that is the case, I'd give it to the GAR.
On second thought, depending on the era, do the Old Republic get the Jedi of their time too? Or is this a straight non-Force contest sans Malak's men?
Well, logically an empire 30,000+ years ago wouldn't be as advanced; in that long we went from sticks and stones to jets and tanks. And I heard in Wookipedia (which is actually pretty reliable) that the Infinite Empire only spanned 500 worlds (albeit stretched out across the galaxy) due to their limited hyperspace tech. And besides, if they were to get invaded/invade the Republic, there's a big chance that some of the slaves would see this as a weak point and take the opportunity to rebel, thus making the empire fight on two fronts.
All force users at the time are allowed, but this is Malak's sith empire so no Nihilus or anything.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Are you serious?
I should be asking you that question.
Well, logically an empire 30,000+ years ago wouldn't be as advanced; in that long we went from sticks and stones to jets and tanks. And I heard in Wookipedia (which is actually pretty reliable) that the Infinite Empire only spanned 500 worlds (albeit stretched out across the galaxy) due to their limited hyperspace tech. And besides, if they were to get invaded/invade the Republic, there's a big chance that some of the slaves would see this as a weak point and take the opportunity to rebel, thus making the empire fight on two fronts.
Here your clearly talking about the Rakatan empire spanning 500 years and describing their technology, and their influence on the galaxy(controlling 500 worlds) . Next you say if they (the rakatans) were invade the republic there's a chance that the slaves would rebel. And I responded by saying there was no republic yet. If you were referring to the PT republic then you should have said so.
One of the threads you started was Anakin Solo vs Anakin Skywalker. Why did you make that? Surely you know that the two never lived at the same time!
When I said Republic, I mean PT Republic. Sorry for the confusion, but I think that it's a bit obvious: the old republic and the infinite empire are on the same side, so the only real other possibility that I'm talking about is the clone wars republic which is the enemy (to them).
I think that the CW republic wins. Their tech is just way too more advanced, and clones > all.
Well, logically an empire 30,000+ years ago wouldn't be as advanced; in that long we went from sticks and stones to jets and tanks.
That's a kind of inapplicable logic though. It assumes that technology has no cap, and must progress at a rapid rate we enjoy here in the modern era. Obviously, certain tech cannot advance beyond a certain point. Hyperdrives, for example, seem virtually untouched in the thousands of years between eras. Lightsabers seem identical (Although there's some artistic differences due to the comics' creators taking some serious liberties), and even the Wookiepedia articles on ship weapons indicates only changes were in size and (mostly) numbers.
Now, the Leviathan is vastly outgunned by any medium or heavy ship in the Republic Navy, so this cannot go in their favor. Numbers are more difficult to assume. The GAR was woefully small. Their numbers weren't even realistic enough to tackle the war they did wage, although it did get better thanks to conscription. Since there's no clear numbers on the side of Malak's army, it's difficult to substantiate what they can do. However, they did have numbers sufficient enough to secure certain worlds and garrison strategic bases.
I'd love to evaluate it further, but I'm being pestered. More on this hopefully later.
Re: The clone wars republic vs old republic, sith empire and Infinite Empire
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Who wins in this epic war?
Erm.
Let me get this straight. This is the Old Republic as seen in KotoR, correct? So the same Republic that has already lost a great deal of the Jedi in the specific time (either through assassination or conversion to the Dark Side). They had 1/3 of their military joining the command of Revan (which means joining the Sith Empire we have here). So, technically: Old Republic + Sith Empire = Troops the Old Republic had before the Mandalorian Wars - whatever Revan lost there + some new recruits.
Then we add the Infinite Empire, which dominated space from one central planet and was, essentially, defeated by a single force user (Adas) and his people rebelling against them.
Now...how exactly are those three armies going to defeat the CW Republic? Let me just point it out for you. The CW Republic features:
- 3 Million "Units" of Clones, when we don't even know what the term "units" does refer to. If those are single soldiers, we have to assume that either those Jedi are quite better combatants than most people here think, or we have to assume that those Clones are uber-soldiers.
- 10,000 Jedi with Knight level and above (with several thousand additional padawans - that might be as skilled as Asohka).
- some of the most powerful force users and most skilled duellists the Galaxy has ever seen.
And they are up against two teams that are weakened by previous wars / conflicts (Old Republic / Sith Empire), didn't - most likely - have the resources of the CW Republic to start with and an "Empire" that spanned roughly 200 planets. That with a Republic that has millions of member systems and historical knowledge about all enemies (which makes tactics by Revan more predictable for example). I really don't think that they have much of a chance against the CW Republic.
Re: Re: The clone wars republic vs old republic, sith empire and Infinite Empire
Originally posted by Borbarad
Erm.
Let me get this straight. This is the Old Republic as seen in KotoR, correct? So the same Republic that has already lost a great deal of the Jedi in the specific time (either through assassination or conversion to the Dark Side). They had 1/3 of their military joining the command of Revan (which means joining the Sith Empire we have here). So, technically: Old Republic + Sith Empire = Troops the Old Republic had before the Mandalorian Wars - whatever Revan lost there + some new recruits.Then we add the Infinite Empire, which dominated space from one central planet and was, essentially, defeated by a single force user (Adas) and his people rebelling against them.
Now...how exactly are those three armies going to defeat the CW Republic? Let me just point it out for you. The CW Republic features:- 3 Million "Units" of Clones, when we don't even know what the term "units" does refer to. If those are single soldiers, we have to assume that either those Jedi are quite better combatants than most people here think, or we have to assume that those Clones are uber-soldiers.
- 10,000 Jedi with Knight level and above (with several thousand additional padawans - that might be as skilled as Asohka).
- some of the most powerful force users and most skilled duellists the Galaxy has ever seen.
And they are up against two teams that are weakened by previous wars / conflicts (Old Republic / Sith Empire), didn't - most likely - have the resources of the CW Republic to start with and an "Empire" that spanned roughly 200 planets. That with a Republic that has millions of member systems and historical knowledge about all enemies (which makes tactics by Revan more predictable for example). I really don't think that they have much of a chance against the CW Republic.
Yeah, the left side Clear winners.
Re: Re: Re: The clone wars republic vs old republic, sith empire and Infinite Empire
Originally posted by Lightsnake
While you're right here, this is about as saying the loss at Salamis was the defeat of the Persian Empire. The Infinite Empire collapsed from many factors.
Well. I think you got me wrong there. My main concern was, that a - relatively - primitive planet with one, probably exceptional, force user leading it's population, was capable of driving the Infinite Empire off. The CW Republic features millions of worlds and most of that have entire modern armies to content with possible invaders. Even Naboo as a "peaceful planet" hat a security force numbering in the hundreds (or even thousands) and starfighters to defend themselves.
While they drove off the Rakata, that really shouldn't be held as a good measuring stick to the Infinite Empire's capabilities. It's doubtful they would have expended a great amount of power or resource to Korriban to quell a revolt and relatively 'primitive' groups have given trouble to much more powerful forces in Star Wars and real life.
There's a point where a big empire, probably in stages of decline from internal strife with its leadership and rampant plague really knows when to cut its losses.
Nai, I seemed to be under the impression that the Sith managed to surprise the Ratakan oppressors who came to their planet and killed their leader or something. I'd have to look it up again.
Wookipedia (which is actually pretty reliable) says that the infinite empire only spanned about 500 worlds DUE TO THEIR LIMITED HYPERSPACE TECH.
I've played both KotOR games many times; I don't remember this last aspect at all. Given the idea of Star Maps, I was always under the impression that no one had properly mapped the galaxy back then, so it wasn't like they were constantly hyperspace jumping into Direction X hoping to find something nice. You'll notice in GAotS comics, mapping is still going on, for example. The Clone Wars-era Republic is a culmination of thousands of years of mapping, so obviously they will have more member worlds regardless of the differences in tech.
So unless you can both substantiate the real limitations of the earlier empires using a source material (Which is ALWAYS reliable), I don't see this being a point worth arguing. And besides, the other empires backing them have plenty of updated maps and hyperdrive systems.
Also, it says that the GAR was one of the largest armies ever assembled.
But where is this coming from? Clearly, there's no clear answer to the number of GAR troops, only the numbers given in AotC which mention millions of Clone Troopers.
Also, most of the surrounding EU describes land battles as being difficult for the Clone Troopers and their support, whereas most of the major battles are won in space (See RotS). So I'm not really seeing the aspect of the GAR being the biggest army ever created in SW history. More militant eras have existed before that had more prep time; the last great "battle" was a thousand years before the events of the PT; how can we expect full mobilization of even a fraction of a peaceful interstellar organization in little less than three years?