Thanos W/IG vs. Darkseid w/ ALE

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Not according to a lot of folks who have suggested that the Miracle Machine didn't really do all that much. 😬

Having re-read it, I can now see that Superman sung DS out of existence. And I'm ok with that. He's ****ing Superman. superman srug

And given that the Miracle Machine took down Mandrakk via the happy ending clause, it's way stronger than the IG or UN. As for the life equation thing, aside from one throw away line, you got nothing. Besides, Darkseid's consciousness had already crushed the multiverse at that point, and the major repairs happened after Mandrakk fell, including dragging New Earth back and fixing space/time.

that was all the MM

Originally posted by Mindset
Thanos changes the ALE equation.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Having re-read it, I can now see that Superman sung DS out of existence. And I'm ok with that. He's ****ing Superman. superman srug

And given that the Miracle Machine took down Mandrakk via the happy ending clause, it's way stronger than the IG or UN. As for the life equation thing, aside from one throw away line, you got nothing. Besides, Darkseid's consciousness had already crushed the multiverse at that point, and the major repairs happened after Mandrakk fell, including dragging New Earth back and fixing space/time.

And my arguments never hinged on the reference whereby the Miracle Machine calculates the Life Equation. It only acts as correlative evidence which supports the clear, on-panel evidence and theme of the story. But we both have danced this dance before, so let's agree to disagree.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just so you know, I wasn't just referring to you. By my recollection, kevdude, symmetric chaos and comicfan11 all had low opinions on what the Miracle Machine actually did. Only fangirl101, allankles and now apparently, you, agree about the sheer magnitude the Miracle Machine operated on.

And my arguments never hinged on the reference whereby the Miracle Machine calculates the Life Equation. It only acts as correlative evidence which supports the clear, on-panel evidence and theme of the story. But we both have danced this dance before, so let's agree to disagree.

^ Was referring to the people who I have historically debated with over Final Crisis. ranting

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Was referring to the people who I have historically debated with over Final Crisis. ranting

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Not according to a lot of folks who have suggested that the Miracle Machine didn't really do all that much. 😬

I don't think anyone said the MM never did much (sounds like you still don't understand what it did), it obviously did as it calculates the Life Equation. Most powerful weapon though? No a regular Mother Box from the Fourth World is much more powerful even stated by Darkseid himself. Superman broke his essence up so the Black Racer could take DS, he did not kill Darkseid as Orion already battled him in the Fourth World and wounded him beyond help. 😉

the point is..DS still lose..if he really is on IG level of power..he would have never been defeated like that..like Trick says..Superman sung DS out of existence..something like that would never defeat the IG..in fact..IG has never been defeated before..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
the point is..DS still lose..if he really is on IG level of power..he would have never been defeated like that..like Trick says..Superman sung DS out of existence..something like that would never defeat the IG..in fact..IG has never been defeated before..

facepalm DID NOT READ FINAL CRISIS. God himself basically took down Darkseid. Did you even see how many plot devices they had to use just to take him down? Hell, DS's feat was multiversal, the IG's only affected 2 universes at best.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Hell, DS's feat was multiversal,

the IG's only affected 2 universes at best.

And stomped the Multiversal remaking UN.

And was stated to make the wielder GOD by the writer's narration,
and by Jim Starlin himself in an official interview.

And was stated to make the wielder Omnipotent by the LT, and Eternity,
and by the sentient Soul gem,
and by Marvel.com.

And was stated to make the wielder all that is, if one wished by the sentient Soul gem,
and Warlock, and Thanos and the Watcher.

And was stated to have the power to take down the Ultraverse Multiverse,
and the 616 Multiverse by the LT himself. (which leads to destruction of everything)

The IG is so potent,
that TOAA themselves had to place the second restriction on its use,
of course, 17 years later that factual truth was overstepped,
but meh,
the LT had to come as a direct representative of TOAA's power
in order to surpass its power.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
facepalm DID NOT READ FINAL CRISIS. God himself basically took down Darkseid. Did you even see how many plot devices they had to use just to take him down? Hell, DS's feat was multiversal, the IG's only affected 2 universes at best.

what God??Supes??Miracle Machine??Black Racer??i read all the FC and it's tie-in..there is not a single cosmic being that try to stop him..how can u compare that with the IG..it took the LT himself to stop the IG..cuz no one else have the power to do so..what cosmic being did DS beat in FC??

You fail to understand the subtext and words between the lines. There was a massive amount of effort, time, energy, and prep that went into bringing down Darkseid.

This was not a threat that could be defeated by sheer power. It was not an army that brought down Darkseid, he had to be gradually worn down and weakened by several forces.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

This was not a threat that could be defeated by sheer power.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You fail to understand the subtext and words between the lines. There was a massive amount of effort, time, energy, and prep that went into bringing down Darkseid.

This was not a threat that could be defeated by sheer power. It was not an army that brought down Darkseid, he had to be gradually worn down and weakened by several forces.

"he had to be gradually worn down and weakened by several forces"..if he is as great as u make him sound..nothing can do that to him..u don't see something like that happen to the IG now do u..why..cuz no one can do that to the IG..

Originally posted by xJLxKing
MM>>UN imo

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Having re-read it, I can now see that Superman sung DS out of existence. And I'm ok with that. He's ****ing Superman. superman srug

And given that the Miracle Machine took down Mandrakk via the happy ending clause, it's way stronger than the IG or UN. As for the life equation thing, aside from one throw away line, you got nothing. Besides, Darkseid's consciousness had already crushed the multiverse at that point, and the major repairs happened after Mandrakk fell, including dragging New Earth back and fixing space/time.

The MM has done nothing to prove it is on their level. Ds wasn't above Batman throwing a wrench in his plans. The ig just blinks people out of existence. It can change your soul simply by thinking it while the ale cannot. The ale can be resisted and the signal can be jammed. Nowhere near the ig at all.

Trick cracks me up when he says DS was Multiversal and an abstract. Trick he couldn't have accomplished anythinng without the war, the breach, and the ALE. He didn't create anything... it was formed from his death. Get this through your thick skull. Him "falling" and the ALE allowed him to do everything and none of which was his doing. He didn't just the singularity out of thin air, it wasn't his intention. Sure he went with it and tried to drag everything down with him but he couldn't do that on a whim. Let's not even get into the ALE either as he couldn't have done anything without that boast.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Trick cracks me up when he says DS was Multiversal and an abstract. Trick he couldn't have accomplished anythinng without the war, the breach, and the ALE. He didn't create anything... it was formed from his death. Get this through your thick skull. Him "falling" and the ALE allowed him to do everything and none of which was his doing. He didn't just the singularity out of thin air, it wasn't his intention. Sure he went with it and tried to drag everything down with him but he couldn't do that on a whim. Let's not even get into the ALE either as he couldn't have done anything without that boast.

👇 Everything was his plan except him actually not surviving. Sure the ALE kept him alive but he was still very weak. I don't know why it matters that he fell and you think just because of that it doesn't show his true power, it does, not that hard Kurup. Darkseid cared nothing for the IG while he had it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The IG is so potent,
that TOAA themselves had to place the second restriction on its use,
of course, 17 years later that factual truth was overstepped,
but meh,
the LT had to come as a direct representative of TOAA's power
in order to surpass its power.