Originally posted by kevdudeDude, Darkseid didn't care for the ale because it didn't function in the dc universe. 🙄
👇 Everything was his plan except him actually not surviving. Sure the ALE kept him alive but he was still very weak. I don't know why it matters that he fell and you think just because of that it doesn't show his true power, it does, not that hard Kurup. Darkseid cared nothing for the IG while he had it.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Having re-read it, I can now see that Superman sung DS out of existence. And I'm ok with that. He's ****ing Superman. superman srugAnd given that the Miracle Machine took down Mandrakk via the happy ending clause, it's way stronger than the IG or UN. As for the life equation thing, aside from one throw away line, you got nothing. Besides, Darkseid's consciousness had already crushed the multiverse at that point, and the major repairs happened after Mandrakk fell, including dragging New Earth back and fixing space/time.
Supes didn't sing DS out of existence that was the shadow of his spirit holding on to the multiverse even as the Black Racer pulled him into the black hole at the centre of creation.
Supes loosened his grip on reality, he didn't actually take him out of existence with a song. Btw these are the author's words not mine.
Originally posted by kevdude
👇 Everything was his plan except him actually not surviving. Sure the ALE kept him alive but he was still very weak. I don't know why it matters that he fell and you think just because of that it doesn't show his true power, it does, not that hard Kurup. Darkseid cared nothing for the IG while he had it.
It's not a reflection of his power; it's a reflection of his essential to the DC universe. If he died, the DC universe would be destroyed and that's exactly what happened in FC. Darkseid died and his fall was collapsing the multiverse. The difference in Morrison's book is that, he can be permanently killed and the multverse can be fixed - it wasn't complete doom if Darkseid was removed from existence.
As for JLA/Avengers, he did care for it that's why he was wearing the damn thing and why Desaad was analyzing it for him.
Thanos wins this.
Originally posted by kevdudeIt was argued by people that all it did was summon Nix Uotan and/or bottle a universe. Miracle Machine's feat was greater than Motherboxxx's feats in Final Crisis despite whatever quote you're drawing from. Darkseid's ultimate defeat was accomplished on several levels:
I don't think anyone said the MM never did much (sounds like you still don't understand what it did), it obviously did as it calculates the Life Equation. Most powerful weapon though? No a regular Mother Box from the Fourth World is much more powerful even stated by Darkseid himself. Superman broke his essence up so the Black Racer could take DS, he did not kill Darkseid as Orion already battled him in the Fourth World and wounded him beyond help. 😉
(i) Orion wounded him beyond repair in the cosmic war in heaven.
(ii) Batman poisoned Darkseid with the Radion bullet.
(iii) The Flashes redirect the multiple Omega Finder Beams into Darkseid, which distracts and turns the Black Racer onto Darkseid, who was now at death's door.
(iv) After Darkseid's essence leaves Turpin's body, Superman sung the song he learned in the Bleed and shattered his essence.
However you decide to attribute Darkseid's ultimate defeat is your own opinion.
Originally posted by Mr MasterFixed.
...And stomped Quasar who tried to use the UN.
...
The main point to take from Onedumb's post is: It took ALOT of effort and several plot devices to bring down Darkseid.
And given that I'm reasonably sure whatever was left of him fell into the singularity, there is a chance he could come back.........fear
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AsLongAsThereIsEvil
Their commentary is not only amusing, it shows somebody reads comics. 😛
"# Darkseid.
* Recently they killed his body, trapped his soul and made his consciousness explode. Bets are open on how long it takes for him to come back. "
Originally posted by EnyalusI don't think I know what you're referring to here?
17 years later, Illuminati comes forth,
and when Tony (Iron Man) says, 'what about the restictions placed on the IG'
Reed asks, "By who?" ... and goes ahead and forms the IG at the end.
I still don't see what that was about,
they did at-least recognize that there was a restriction,
but it seems that the writer of Illuminati said, 'pfft, I don't care'
meh, it was TOAA after all that supposedly did it,
so, since this is another OAA (Writer/Artist) I guess they can change the rules.
On top of this, Starlin doesn't work for Marvel anymore,
so it's not like he has a voice on the matter, and anyways,
Editors in-Chief are the last word concerning materials that have been published.
At-least the Rune incident gave us some logic behind the story,
the LT's faces must agree,
but Illuminati simply skipped what was canon, or retconned canonicity.
To be honest, I'm not sure of either.
Originally posted by Allankles👆
Supes didn't sing DS out of existence that was the shadow of his spirit holding on to the multiverse even as the Black Racer pulled him into the black hole at the centre of creation.Supes loosened his grip on reality, he didn't actually take him out of existence with a song. Btw these are the author's words not mine.
Originally posted by AllanklesWow. You just told trick the guy who tells everyone else they didn't get fc that he himself didn't get fc.
Supes didn't sing DS out of existence that was the shadow of his spirit holding on to the multiverse even as the Black Racer pulled him into the black hole at the centre of creation.Supes loosened his grip on reality, he didn't actually take him out of existence with a song. Btw these are the author's words not mine.
I cant believe this thread isnt closed and people are actually debating on this. This is a none fight that wouldnt even last a second. Thanos with the ig was beyond almost anything in mu, nothing was a threat to him.
Thanos smiles and kill darkseid, its just that damn easy and then he take control of the ale himself and throw that sh** away due to his already omnipotent powers.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It was argued by people that all it did was summon Nix Uotan and/or bottle a universe. Miracle Machine's feat was greater than Motherboxxx's feats in Final Crisis despite whatever quote you're drawing from. Darkseid's ultimate defeat was accomplished on several levels:(i) Orion wounded him beyond repair in the cosmic war in heaven.
(ii) Batman poisoned Darkseid with the Radion bullet.
(iii) The Flashes redirect the multiple Omega Finder Beams into Darkseid, which distracts and turns the Black Racer onto Darkseid, who was now at death's door.
(iv) After Darkseid's essence leaves Turpin's body, Superman sung the song he learned in the Bleed and shattered his essence.However you decide to attribute Darkseid's ultimate defeat is your own opinion.
Fixed.
I know all that OneDumb, that's what I've been saying the whole time. I don't know what you think the Miracle Machine (a poorly made MotherBoxxx) did but what it did officially do was fix the crack that Darkseid made as he fell into the Multiverse as Superman brought hope back to it with FC ending with a happy ending, ending Darkseids effects on it as everyone felt hopeless, or you could say bottle the universe again for protection. The MotherBoxxx which was used by Mister Miracle saved everyone in the Castle and Satellite right before Darkseid snapped the lifeline between Earth-Zero and Earth-51 which was the only planet safe in the Multiverse aka the New Genesis of the Fifth World (FC 7).
After reading FC again in FC 4 we see Alan Scott giving everyone his last commands and how dire the situation is. Telling everyone the gods of Apokolips have been using there tech and splicing animals and humans and making hybrid soldiers, and there presence in our lower realm deforms time and distorts the minds. 😱
Nice job Morrison 👆
^ Your opinion. You'd like to suggest that once Superman wished for a happy ending, it only reversed Darkseid's effect, which you characterize as an imposition of "multiversal hopelessness." First off, your assuming your conclusion. (i) Since the Miracle Machine fixed all the effects of "multiversal hopelessness" and (ii) DS caused all "multiversal hopelessness effects," then (iii) all the Miracle Machine did was counter DS.
You assume (ii) is correct without ever proving so. Not even going into whether or not it was his mastery of the ALE, which proves you to be the master of all existence, that premise is fundamentally flawed. Darkseid was not the cause of every dilemna and emergency that occurs in Final Crisis: (i) Mandrakk was not an effect of DS' mythical "multiversal hopelessness effect," since DS was already defeated; and (ii) Nix Uotan deciding that the Monitors had to fade from existence was not an effect of DS' mythical "multiversal hopelessness effect," since DS was already defeated.
The happy endings whereby Mandrakk is defeated and Nix Uotan is reincarnated had nothing to do with DS' mythical "multiversal hopelessness effect." Yet, those were a result of the Miracle Machine's working out Superman's happy ending wish. As such, the Miracle Machine's powers didn't just counter DS' mythical "multiversal hopelessness effect," it extended beyond that and him. Your interpretation is flawed.
And the Miracle Machine is not a poorly made Motherbox. It's the Controller's perfection of the Guardian's technology which converts thoughts not into plasma constructs, but pure reality. It calculated the Life Equation, the polar opposite of the Anti-Life Equation and you can refuse to extrapolate what that actually speaks for in terms of the scope of the ALE all you want. But bottom-line is, Miracle Machine's feats still far outstrip what the Motherboxxx did in Final Crisis.
As for your utter reliance on DS' own words as proof that outstrips on-panel feats? This is the word of the same character who scoffed at Batman outracing him and believed himself to be the Fifth World. His word meant crap. And I find quoting another person's opinion on the veracity of his word to be particularly appropriate at this time:
NRAMA: Afterwards, Metron welcomes the Fifth World as the age of men as gods. Wasn't the Fifth World Darkseid's World and age?
GM: Sez Darkseid! Just as Hitler thought the future belonged to the Fuhrer and his glorious Thousand Year Reich, so does Darkseid overestimate his place in the Great Story.
Nice job Morrison 👆
Originally posted by OneDumbG0NRAMA: Afterwards, Metron welcomes the Fifth World as the age of men as gods. Wasn't the Fifth World Darkseid's World and age?
GM: Sez Darkseid! Just as Hitler thought the future belonged to the Fuhrer and his glorious Thousand Year Reich, so does Darkseid overestimate his place in the Great Story.
This is true but you missed the initial context.
Morrison: "In Jack Kirby’s Fourth World books (which every right thinking human being should read, if they haven’t already), it’s pretty clear that the New Gods have known about Earth for a long time and in JLA ten years ago, I suggested that part of their interest in us was rooted in the fact that Earth was destined to become the cradle of a new race of ‘Fifth World’ super-divinities - an eventuality Darkseid is eager to prevent from occurring."
So DS was trying to prevent this eventuality, but the Radion poisoning and the Black Racer stood in his way.
Also the Miracle Machine is a motherbox with a single function. It was said to be the a perfect tool to destroy Supes and the heroes. DS could easily corrupt Supes wish, of course he got taken away by the Black Racer right before Supes made the wish.