Speed-blitz: What is it and who uses it?

This is a term very familiar to those of us who participate in the Vs. forum. It is a highly controversial point and often the deciding factor in a fight.

I would like to use this thread to discuss, debate, and perhaps arrive at a consensus on just what exactly constitutes a speed-blitz and maybe a list of characters who are capable and have the proclivity to use a speed-blitz in a fight (I'm sure the list won't be too long).

Anyways, I'll start by posting examples of what I consider to be true speedblitzes (performed by non other than the king of speed-blitzes, Superman 😄 )

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2492/combatspeedts0.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8537/69520627tb6.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9351/86331340gw5.jpg

So, the thread's purpose is to elaborate on what a speedblitz means, and list characters who can do them ? ermm

Originally posted by Philosophía
So, the thread's purpose is to elaborate on what a speedblitz means ? ermm

also, if possible, to come up with a list of people who are not only able to but also likely to use speed blitz in fights

I define speedblitz as being able to hit your opponent multiple times before he has a chance to react. Now whether you only do it in short bursts, or do it continuously until your opponent is down, it's still a speedblitz.

Characters who are capable of doing it, and would probably do it a majority of times are Flash related speedsters (Wally, Barry, Jay, Bart, Zoom etc) since it's their primary power, Superman, Batgirl (🙂) etc. Characters who are capable of, but seldomly do it are the likes of Captain Marvel, Sentry etc It generally depends on the writer, and the respective character's adversary.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I define speedblitz as being able to hit your opponent multiple times before he has a chance to react. Now whether you only do it in short bursts, or do it continuously until your opponent is down, it's still a speedblitz.

Characters who are capable of doing it, and would probably do it a majority of times are Flash related speedsters (Wally, Barry, Jay, Bart, Zoom etc) since it's their primary power, Superman, Batgirl (🙂) etc. Characters who are capable of, but seldomly do it are the likes of Captain Marvel, Sentry etc It generally depends on the writer, and the respective character's adversary.

I have a slight difference with yours in that I also require the attack to be in superspeed...so for me, batgirl hitting someone multiple times wouldn't qualify as a speedblitz.

I think it does not matter if your opponent cant react...if flash/wally was fighting flash/bart..and they went all out speed attacks..they would still be speedblitzing...right?

Originally posted by Starscream M
hmm...interesting. I agree about the hitting opponent multiple times.

I have a slight difference with yours in that I also require the attack to be in superspeed...so for me, batgirl hitting someone multiple times wouldn't qualify as a speedblitz.

Agreed with both of you. I think obviously you have to be faster than your opponent to speedblitz them, but the degree must be so great that (like in the scans) you are in superhuman speed, usually like a blur.

The problem arises when writers have peak human characters use speedblitz so it seems they have superhuman powers (for example, Batman appearing like a blur to his enemies.)

It's certainly interesting because it's a very subjective and obscure term that has become so important to our VS debates despite often not holding a lot of importance in the actual comics (like the fact in a VS debate Superman should easily beat Batman via speedblitz whereas in the comics Batman often wins, even with minimal prep.) ✅

Being able to fly really fast in a straight line (as the second scan shows) doesn't constitute a speedblitz to me. That's just flight. Human Torch can do that and not that I pay attention but I doubt anyone in the Vs. forum has given Johnny a win via speedblitz.

Clearly Superman can speedblitz, but are all of those scans in the opening post the Big Guy? It's impossible to tell for sure in a couple, and his look just seems...off...in the first one. Maybe it's just me.

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
Being able to fly really fast in a straight line (as the second scan shows) doesn't constitute a speedblitz to me. That's just flight. Human Torch can do that and not that I pay attention but I doubt anyone in the Vs. forum has given Johnny a win via speedblitz.

So would you say you can't just simply fly fast in a straight line to speedblitz? Interesting.....

Because if that can just be attributed to flight, what about things like agility?

This whole threads purpose is to help you figure something out relevant to the vs forum?

Shouldn't this have been made in the vs forum?

Originally posted by Starscream M
This is a term very familiar to those of us who participate in the Vs. forum. It is a highly controversial point and often the deciding factor in a fight.

I would like to use this thread to discuss, debate, and perhaps arrive at a consensus on just what exactly constitutes a speed-blitz and maybe a list of characters who are capable and have the proclivity to use a speed-blitz in a fight (I'm sure the list won't be too long).

Anyways, I'll start by posting examples of what I consider to be true speedblitzes (performed by non other than the king of speed-blitzes, Superman 😄 )

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2492/combatspeedts0.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8537/69520627tb6.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9351/86331340gw5.jpg

blitz
Noun
1. a violent and sustained attack by enemy aircraft
2. any intensive attack or concerted effort
Verb
to attack suddenly and intensively

speed
Noun
1. Physics The rate or a measure of the rate of motion, especially:
a. Distance traveled divided by the time of travel.
b. The limit of this quotient as the time of travel becomes vanishingly small; the first derivative of distance with respect to time.
c. The magnitude of a velocity.
2. Swiftness of action.
3.
a. The act of moving rapidly.
b. The state of being in rapid motion; rapidity.
4. A transmission gear or set of gears in a motor vehicle.
5.
a. A numerical expression of the sensitivity of a photographic film, plate, or paper to light.
b. The capacity of a lens to accumulate light at an appropriate aperture.
c. The length of time required or permitted for a camera shutter to open and admit light.
6. Slang A stimulant drug, especially amphetamine or methamphetamine.
7. Slang One that suits or appeals to a person's inclinations, skills, or character: Living in a large city is not my speed.
8. Archaic Prosperity; luck.

If we combine the second definition of blitz with third for speed(since they seem to be the most appropriate uses for our purposes) we end up with something like...

Speedblitz
Noun.
1. Any intensive attack or concerted effort preformed in a state of rapid motion.

Personally, I've always considered a speedblitz to be any attack that can't be defended against due to the speed at which it's preformed, but I'm in the minority on that because most supporters of the tactic insist that the characters have to be drawn a certain way, using h2h attacks, against a certain number of opponents of a certain size in order for it to "count" as a speedblitz 🙄 .

Okay, I have a question.

People list the Flash all the time as a character who can beat opponents he would never beat in an actual comic.

I really want to see ANY Flash hitting an airborne opponent... not just a bit of the ground, but actually flying, without some PIS circumstances.... or fighting in space (like when he's matched against the Surfer in the versus forum).... and so on.

I'm kind of tired of the unbeliavable wanking Flash gets on here.... I get it, he has an astounding power-set.... but it's NOT PIS when he can't beat an opponent if they're outside of that set.

Originally posted by tjcoady
Okay, I have a question.

People list the Flash all the time as a character who can beat opponents he would never beat in an actual comic.

I really want to see ANY Flash hitting an airborne opponent... not just a bit of the ground, but actually flying, without some PIS circumstances.... or fighting in space (like when he's matched against the Surfer in the versus forum).... and so on.

I'm kind of tired of the unbeliavable wanking Flash gets on here.... I get it, he has an astounding power-set.... but it's NOT PIS when he can't beat an opponent if they're outside of that set.

Good question.

In Teen Titans when they fought the Evil future versions of themselves possessed by Starros, the evil future Bart Allen wasn't possessed. He defeated the giant evil flying Starro by jumping through it and bursting it.

I think it was Teen Titans #54(?) Sorry I don't have a scanner.

However your point still stands cos even if it wasn't P.I.S (which it may be) it was future version who could have arguably required a skill the current Flashes don't have.

Speedblitz: a compound attack which occurs so quickly, multiple targets are struck before an opponent can launch an effective defense (if any at all). Speedblitzing can range from close-quarters multipunching to an open, multivector flight attack. The point is: multiple strikes occur before a defense does. As a rule, superspeed helps.

Very generally speaking...
Best multipuncher: the Flash (or at least, he should be).
Best multivector flight attacker: the Surfer.
Best overall speedblitzer: Superman.

Cases in point deserving special mention:

1. If the Flash, eg, attacks another speedster with superspeed punching, is that a speedblitz? Only if the other speedster can't launch a defense while it's occurring. Even if the two are punching and blocking too fast for the eye to follow, neither is getting speedblitzed. They're speedfighting, but nobody, technically, is getting blitzed.

2. Batman, eg, wails on an opponent with multiple strikes before the opponent can react. Speedblitz? Yes, though not the kind we generally think of, with superspeed.

However, as shown with the Flash example, speed is relative. Therefore, as a criteria for a blitz, superhuman speed is secondary as compared to the primary constituents:
- multiple strikes
- no time for a defense

Originally posted by tjcoady
Okay, I have a question.

People list the Flash all the time as a character who can beat opponents he would never beat in an actual comic.

I really want to see ANY Flash hitting an airborne opponent... not just a bit of the ground, but actually flying, without some PIS circumstances.... or fighting in space (like when he's matched against the Surfer in the versus forum).... and so on.

I'm kind of tired of the unbeliavable wanking Flash gets on here.... I get it, he has an astounding power-set.... but it's NOT PIS when he can't beat an opponent if they're outside of that set.

I don't have the scan, but Wally did run in space during OWAW

Originally posted by Mindship
Speedblitz: a compound attack which occurs so quickly, multiple targets are struck before an opponent can launch an effective defense (if any at all). Speedblitzing can range from close-quarters multipunching to an open, multivector flight attack. The point is: multiple strikes occur before a defense does. As a rule, superspeed helps.

Very generally speaking...
Best multipuncher: the Flash (or at least, he should be).
Best multivector flight attacker: the Surfer.
Best overall speedblitzer: Superman.

Cases in point deserving special mention:

1. If the Flash, eg, attacks another speedster with superspeed punching, is that a speedblitz? Only if the other speedster can't launch a defense while it's occurring. Even if the two are punching and blocking too fast for the eye to follow, neither is getting speedblitzed. They're speedfighting, but nobody, technically, is getting blitzed.

2. Batman, eg, wails on an opponent with multiple strikes before the opponent can react. Speedblitz? Yes, though not the kind we generally think of, with superspeed.

However, as shown with the Flash example, speed is relative. Therefore, as a criteria for a blitz, superhuman speed is secondary as compared to the primary constituents:
- multiple strikes
- no time for a defense

For the sake of evidence...two speedsters speed fighting (multiple punches, kicks etc)....IS evidence of speedblitzing..there is no other point to it then.....there never should be the criteria that no defence is required.it does not make sense...it might be a successfull speedblitz...but when trying to determine if one can speedblitz....that criteria...is wrong i.m.o

Here is Wally saying he could outrun gravity, meaning he could run into the air too fast for gravity to pull him down:

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/WallyWestRespect/wallyflashtick.jpg

Oh and here are the scans of him running in space that I found:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/runspace.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/runspace2.jpg

Originally posted by starlock
For the sake of evidence...two speedsters speed fighting (multiple punches, kicks etc)....IS evidence of speedblitzing..there is no other point to it then.....there never should be the criteria that no defence is required.it does not make sense...it might be a successfull speedblitz...but when trying to determine if one can speedblitz....that criteria...is wrong i.m.o

I'm focusing more on results than intention.

Originally posted by Mindship

However, as shown with the Flash example, speed is relative. Therefore, as a criteria for a blitz, superhuman speed is secondary as compared to the primary constituents:
- multiple strikes
- no time for a defense

No, I strongly disagree with the speed relative aspect of a speedblitz. To me, a speedblitz MUST be over a certain speed, that majority of comic characters cannot handle...so say over the speed of sound at least. One safe rule of thumb is that you are moving faster than the eye can see.

If you make it relative...then if I punch a fat old man, that would make me speedblitzing him, and it shouldn't be categorized as such.

you would be bastardizing the term 'speed-blitz' and it would be meaningless.