Originally posted by jinzin
What you thought of it? Well you've dodged it twice now so you must think that the answer's a threat to your credibility.
I'll take that as a concession.And, I wasn't assuming anything? I was asking a question.. you're actions have answered it for me. Thanks. 🙂
You monkey - you're telling me that:
"I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you probably fall into this category don't you?"
ISN'T an assumption?
Don't contradict yourself and then pose as somone with somthing intelligent to say.
Good day to you.
Originally posted by GahLakTus
You monkey - you're telling me that:"I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you probably fall into this category don't you?"
ISN'T an assumption?
Don't contradict yourself and then pose as somone with somthing intelligent to say.
Good day to you.
I'm not, I had a suspicion I asked you a question and you've dodged it several times now only proving that my suspicion was most likely correct.
And now that you've exposed yoursefl you resort to name calling.. pretty sad.
.
Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine's harsh on himself. That's nothing new. Maybe you should pick up more of his books. 😕
The same Elektra that's put him down before, and kicked his ass accross an apartment rooftop....
Logan taking down people that are not comparable to Elektra is not relivent to this debate.
Electra put him down with “circumstances on her side”. Not all was her as shown. Kicked his ass? Most of the elite do that to Logan as Logan can afford to take punishment unlike them via healingfactor. Anyway his apartment fight happened when he was mentally and physically out of it. And Logan still managed to checkmate Electra at the end of the rooftop fight IIRC.
Where was his HF "lame". He healed from hamburger meat, and was talking with swords in his throat.
You stated you seen Logan heal his heart in three panels that level was not displayed in Millar’s Gorgon run. As a Optic Blast that wasn’t mountain sized hurt him bad in issue after Gorgon Logan healed from decapitations to other gruesome stuff. Millar just changes it to make for fights or to fit his plots. He’s as bad a Ennis in that part. Millar I rank him above Ennis but Millar is crappy unless he’s writing in the Ultimate Universe since he’s real extreme at times.
No it's not... Half the things "he said" were extremely hostile and clearly not himself but hydra's/hand's influence over him....
The Hydra/Hand ones that were talking even told Logan in his mind to “shut up” and quit feeling sorry for himself. Meaning Logan’s thoughts were still in there.
I fail to see how a general statement about street levels "like Daredevil" needing to be the best means that DD IS the best.. Especially when ELEKTRA was the real target.
Real target could be for what ever reason, the hand/hydra did not say. It was brought up with DD because Logan took out easily the strong bricks such as Thing/Namor as DD is considered a main Street character, as Logan fought Electra before DD and this statement was not brought up until the fight with DD. While DD eluded him and did well considering the circumstances. Although this does not mean of course DD is >>>then Thing or Namor of course.
Again.. Not even the fight I was reffering too.. But Elektra there clearly has an advantage. Wolverine's on the ground sais in his shoulders (again) and about to be pummbled with a lead pipe... Yeah she definitely wasn't winning that one. 🙄Anyways, that's not the fight I'm reffering to that Wolverine would remember because "Wasn't in my right mind at the time".
Sigh. Guy I specifically asked you which fight. And you answered with………
Originally posted by jinzin
[B]
They're first one where she stabbed him in the heart and left him for dead.
She got washed away before she had the chance to finish him off. 😬
You said she got washed “away” as I posted that fight above. Electra won but not by herself as she had help. Declaring that a real win is not really that impressive considering the circumstances that you left out.
"they're fighting but Wolverine's REALLY talking about sneaking around and assassinations""Wolverine was on the ground and needed saving by two plot devices but it wasn't a win for Elektra"
Well you do kill in a fight and lets face it Electra is good at killing. No its not a legit win for Electra. Electra had help to bring down Logan you left that information out for a reason jinzin.
The fight where she left him for dead is seperate from the EOTS fight...And that fight took place well before his second mutation...
If your talking about the roof top fight with Electra don’t bother since did not win. If your talking about another time then say the title and issue number and I shall see. If you don’t know the title or issue the don’t bother bringing it up.
OMG.. So when she does pwn elites like Wolverine, TM, DD, and Razorfist it doesn't count.
And again, it wasn't what I meant. I'm not backpeddling it just wasn't what I meant, not that there isn't any evidence to support that she couldn't mind rape Batman like you're thinking, I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt that she might not be able to.Read Elektra: Assassin, she literally forces her mind into other people and makes them act as her vessal. No joke.
So like you've been this entire thread.. you're once again.. wrong.
You said at the top of the page
Logan taking down people that are not comparable to Elektra is not relivent to this debate.
Now apply that to the people she makes into there vessel. See easy. Those characters are not Shang Chi, or Daredevil or Wolverine for that matter.
you mean like using DD and bullseye as a clear indication of what she can and can't do in spite of CIS?
Let me guess I bet even in the issue were Electra defeats Taskmaster she doesn’t use her mind “mojo” as well? I’ll be I’m right.
NOT THE FIGHT I WAS REFFERING TO.And there's nothing wrong with his HF in his EOTS fight with Elektra in terms of the writing. He was hamburger meat shortly before that fight. His HF would clearly not be fast acting.
It IS PIS when you have a character downed by something and then ignore that to abuse him later.
Then which fight were you referring to?? State the title and number. Actually there is especially when you consider Electra sais dropping and DD hurting him badly to fall on a sword to stop him a bit, if we go by his better feats. There PIS as well. But that doesn’t even matter since Electra did not win by herself as there were circumstances that you ignored.
You mean like Wolverine? Oh wait no.
No Taskmaster? no can't be it.
Wait! I know Zaran? Nu-uh.
Razorfist? Nah.
Backlash? Nine!Oh no I know DD and Bullseye because clearly PIS and CIS don't mean much to you if you're trying to make a point... pffft..
blocking machine gun fire>>> dodging (all streeters do that)
Zaran, Razorfist, and Backlash are tough fighters but there no DD, Bullseye, Logan. Taskmaster imo is better then the other three that you listed but I’ll bet Electra didn’t mind mojo TM either. Which helps my point.
Clearly PIS and CIS of what your believing but lets face love and fear can also be enough motivation to win as well it works both ways if you think about it. Again your just cherry picking I can do that just as easily.
DD’s dodges not just gun fire but “lasers”. Which are more impressive then bullets. A high end feat is not irrelevant for fights but the fights themselves.
What win? He "beat" slade in a nonfight... 😐
No he KO’ed Slade in a fight after Slade hurt Batman badly and left him down to go get his target.
tagging speedsters is not = to blocking bullets...Does he have feats to match it?
If you show me Batman blocking automatic gunfire and I ignore it that's bias.. until then.. I'm skeptical in light of evidence. [/B]
Tagging speedsters is not the same as blocking bullets but blocking bullets is not the same as tagging speedsters either.
For that matter I can claim AIS for the bullets like artist induced stupidy or PIS. Its impressive but not the main relevance for this fight.
Batman has a feat with his strength of “busting” down a door that was designed to withstand a cruise missile. I’ll bet Electra does not have a feat like that, huh? Does that mean Batman should easily cave in some faces with that feat….sure. Is it relevant for his fights agains his elites in his own verse. Of course not….its also PIS in the sense it’s a flashy feat but not the deciding factor for this fight.
Originally posted by jinzin
Ummm and? I just said that blocking machine gun fire was one of the feats that makes Wonder Woman impressive...
So what's wrong with labeling blocking machine gun fire as WW type of feat?
By doing so you’re comparing her to Wonder Woman, which is nothing in comparison with her speed at all. Its like the Slade fan boys comparing Slade speed to Flash. Or a Cap fan comparing his feats to Flash since he plays in beams that are targeting him under zero gravity or blocking random beats.
DD has a feat of keeping up with a bullet in a race…….LOL. I’m not talking just hand speed to block it…… but his entire body moving along side the same speed of the bullet. That sounds just as good as Electra. Batman himself has tagged easily bullet-timers constantly and his elite crew. I don’t mind that Electra is a bit faster and or more agile then Bruce. But Bruce is stronger and more durable.
The way I'm intending them to? You mean free of PIS or CIS and fair for both sides of the debate?
"There's a trick to tagging speedsters"
It's not as impressive. Even Night-thrasher's done it.Slade's superhuman stats make up for his lower level combat technique.
And as you said mild degree... Spiderman does to, but catching even two bullets is a major feat for him. Blocking machine gun fire? Yeah non-existant.
Yeah that trick is skill and speed. By that logic there’s a trick to blocking bullets. Gambit has blocked rapid fire with his staff. Hell Cap has blocked rapid energy beams with small hand gauntlets and beams are >>>>>bullets. But it doesn’t translate remotely to it being superior speed to his other peers to say blitz them.
Sounds like PIS on the bullets. I mean Batman has a striking feat of bringing down a cruise missile door. By that feat alone he should put a hole through Electra easily. But to believe that feat of Bruce is what is incorporated into his fights with his elite fighters is irrelevant. Same for Electra and her machine gun fire block.
Neither Batman nor Electra are true superhuman anyhow. Also to note I doubt fear is too much of a factor for Electra since, she did defeat Bullseye in a match in the past. Bullseye having the upper hand currently just speaks about his abilities.
Originally posted by jinzin
Because he didn't sneak attack him when they started the actual fight. 😐
And if you would have checked the page before then you would have seen TM attempt a sneak attack. You might as well check out the book even before that one as well to see the feats and fights that Cap has to go though in that arch.
"to deny that is denial" lol...The fact is that Cap got the better of him with a weapon Tasky wasn't even aware he had... It's denial to say that the curbstomp TM laid down on Steve that entire fight was anything BUT impressive. Even with weapons.
Considering Cap’s condition no it’s not that impressive,e even worse since Tasky had all those weapons. Tasky was winning key word……….was. And against a handicapped Cap at that. Was it impressive no considering Cap was already roughed up. I was more impressed with Tasky first fight with Cap but even that one, TM did not win but had the advantage.
Yeah aside from owning Cap and IM at the same time, beating Cap for most of a second fight, beating IM again in h2h, owning a guy fast enough to catch bullets noncholantly, owning zaran, owning Cat in three panels, going blow for blow with DD, owning DP twice, and landing killshots on him a third, beating down spidey once, humiliating him twice more, outspeeding Spiderman's attack, actually beating MK horribly when they really fought, and downing three giants with a single shield throw.... yeah he's a chump. 🙄
Some of those points are very biased. No he’s no chump but he isn’t no Daredevil, Electra or Batman for that matter. Tasmaster is a elite that falls short in most of his bouts against the others, especially recently.
You mean the fact that you misunderstood or straight up ignored that Elektra beat Wolverine in a fight prior to EOTS which is what I was reffering to and or the fact that TM didn't jump Cap as you said so it hardly stands as an excuse for Cap's performance shows that you're just grasping at straws to discredit both TM and Elektra so your argument holds more validity.
Exactly his feats though low in number are impressive.. But when you have other characters with impressive feats and short records....
TM only first fight seems impressive with Cap but his overall record isn’t to shabby like Cap. It’s a good record just not a great one.
Again I believe that her fighting level is attributed to her through her fights (free of CIS) her performance is better than DD's in multiple cases. It leads me to believe she's equivolent if not superior. As J-rod argued, she hasn't tried.
Bullseye and DD are just one tough cookie for Electra….that why she has problems.
Blocking lots of bullets is relivent to speed. If both characters have the same level of skill but one's much faster.. well. 😬
Except one is not much faster. Its like saying DD is faster because he actually kept up with a bullet speed with his leap matching the bullet in a race.
Hell I'd expect that as a legimate shadow of doubt if DD got one shotted next to Wolverine.
If DD gets one shotted he gets one shotted. Wolverine did put DD in a nelson, but then again Logan has also checkmated Electra this was when Wol was in his out of wack mode. Messed up from the adam ripping.
I suppose you're right about hurting bricks. In hindsight most respectable street levels can.
Still I feel that Shang Chi's ability to manipulate his chi is quite advanced compared to Batman.Agreed.
I don't.
Batman has his own recognizable feats that would give him the toss-up or majority against Electra or Shang IMO. I don’t see Shang being more advanced since his feats are not greater and vice versa of course, in comparison to Bruce. But I think it’s fair to say I give Bruce the majority, while you give Electra the majority.
Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not, I had a suspicion I asked you a question and you've dodged it several times now only proving that my suspicion was most likely correct.And now that you've exposed yoursefl you resort to name calling.. pretty sad.
What are you mumbling on about - ive already said Batman takes the majority so im not dodging any question - your assumption is I know nothing/very little about Elektra and am therefore making my views based on majority views.
However as I said my opinion is my own. You are in the vast minority - also I am not calling you names, merely making detailed observations.
Originally posted by GahLakTus
What are you mumbling on about - ive already said Batman takes the majority so im not dodging any question - your assumption is I know nothing/very little about Elektra and am therefore making my views based on majority views.
Originally posted by GahLakTus
However as I said my opinion is my own. You are in the vast minority - also I am not calling you names, merely making detailed observations.
The question was what it's based on.
Umm yeah you did resort to name calling.. so now you're a liar too... 😉
Originally posted by GahLakTus
You monkey - you're telling me that:
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah if by counter you mean take multiple blows without going down...
No, by counter I mean break Kid Flash’s ribs with a kick… 😕
And I already told you the reason Kid Flash was able to land so many hits was because Bart got the drop on him. Nice job of evading the second scan, btw.
Fact still remains that Deathstroke is faster, stronger, and more durable than Elektra.
Originally posted by jinzin
And that's the thing, he's good enough to tag a speedster.. but so is Batman, Cap, and Wolverine.. None of these individuals will you find blocking machine gun fire. So how is that doding the point... You think Batman is fast enough to beat someone who can move her arms fast enough to block machine gun fire. That's insane.
Uh… we’re talking about a guy who spars with Wonder Woman on a regular basis. What’s insane is the fact that you think Elektra’s speed would overwhelm Batman in a fight. Lmfao
You’re entire argument for why Elektra wins this revolves around one scan.
And going by your own logic… you think Elektra can beat somebody who’s punked Lobo, Aquaman, and Solomon Grundy in fist fights. And yet you preach to me about insanity…
Originally posted by jinzin
just as viable being not viable.
Exactly, so even if we throw that instance out, you’re only example comes from 1988. Since then, yes, Batman has indeed beaten top tier martial artists in one shot (which I believe was one of your questions).
This is why focusing on outdated feats to support a claim isn’t the best way to go.
Originally posted by jinzin
In another non fight? yeah...
Still, it’s a one-shot of a guy who can easily take tank shells to the chest.
Originally posted by jinzin
As stated before, you've made a good case for strength being on par.
I would say Batman is stronger than Elektra.
Originally posted by jinzin
No... in the same words, I just don't see how those scans prove a whole lot for this fight. I can post up half the Cap respect thread for any Cap vs. debate but that doesn't mean every scan applies to the fight.
That was hardly half of Batman’s respect thread. Those were just a few showings in each physical category to show why Batman is superior to her.
Not to mention, if we compare the impressiveness of each other’s victories over super powered beings, Batman is just flat out better.
Originally posted by jinzin
So... No.. now that's point dodging.
I didn't ignore the scans I looked at them... I didn't respond to them because again, aside from Batman's strength, they don't make much of a case against Elektra.
This is kinda funny, considering you did almost the exact same thing on page 2 of this thread for Elektra.
And if this is all you have to say, then you must not have looked at them very carefully.
Originally posted by jinzin
Oh c'moonnnn even people like Kitty Pride can apply pressure points to nobodies. You haven't seen that because she's a killer.
Skillfully enough to knock people out with mere touches? Skillfully enough to harm and/or KO people with invulnerability?
That’s a big “NOPE” to both…
And it’s not as if Batman doesn’t know killing moves either. In fact, he knows the most dangerous/deadly moves in all of the fighting arts.
Originally posted by jinzin
Hey I'm still waiting for you to show me Batman blocking machine gun fire.. I never said I couldn't be proven wrong.
I’ve never seen Elektra dodge a sneak heat vision attack from the likes of Superman before.
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=23ph0.jpg
Me ftw. 🙂
Originally posted by jinzin
Kyle's the most impressive green Lantern in DC but he 1) isn't a peak human and 2) wasn't looking for any hostilities from Batman... so that proves exaclty nothing.
🙄
Proves exactly nothing my ass. Kyle got the ring stolen from him literally faster than he could perceive. He didn’t even realize what had happened until Batman showed him the ring. It’s much more impressive than the feat you showed of what Elektra did against the Punisher, which btw, Batman has replicated.
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfvt1.jpg
Originally posted by jinzin
Anyways, I don't think that TM is > Captain America.. Just that he is an elite fighter who can give both Cap and Bat a clear run for their money.
Maybe…
But Hawkgirl would beat Elektra in a fight, and yet Batman made her look like a complete bitch in his encounter with her.
Originally posted by jinzin
Kinda, except that I wasn't trying to prove that Elektra is better than Cap, just that she can hang with top tier MA's.
And considering Batman stalemated Karate Kid and easily took down Cassandra Cain with a single pressure point strike, where does that leave him as far as this thread is concerned?
Originally posted by jinzin
I don't disagree that he has a much larger and more impressive resume' in sheer scope..
At least I can get you to admit that. 🙂
Originally posted by jinzin
But in terms that are relivent to this thread? I disagree.
Are you kidding me? It's all relevant to this thread. Batman is better in almost every meaningful way.
Originally posted by thadarknite84because elektra is a much better martial artist than batman thats why. im not saying batman cant kick some ass but elektra is just to quick for bats i say. if he had his bat belt in this fight hed whip her i say. but look at begining of thread. no bat toys and no sais
Batdude, why is it that most people on KMC doubt Batman's ability to fight and beat other highly skilled fighter? It's very sad that people think that Batman can't even defeat Elektra.
Originally posted by spidey-dude
because elektra is a much better martial artist than batman thats why. im not saying batman cant kick some ass but elektra is just to quick for bats i say. if he had his bat belt in this fight hed whip her i say. but look at begining of thread. no bat toys and no sais
What makes you say that she is "better"? Batman spent two years with ninja shadow masters and six months among the Ghost Tribes of the Ten-eyed Brotherhood in North America and mastered the arts of the ninja. If batman was a killer, he would be even more deadlier than Elektra. Add the other fighting styles he mastered combined with his own unique style of fighting, and Batman becomes like Bruce Lee, but better. Whatever style Elektra uses, Batman knows a way to counter it. Batman is just a more intelligent fighter because he Analyses everything about an opponent he is facing. Batman is the best at it.
Originally posted by brainchild81
Is there anybody Batman can lose to w/out you whining?After seeing all those metafeats jinzin posted, Elektra beats the shit outta Batman
Whining? I'm only stating my opinion. And to answer your question, No. There is maybe only a hand full of non super powered people who can beat him. And those who can would have a very hard time doing it. Elektra is not one of those people. You need to respect the god dam Batman. He has proved for years, that he is the most dangerous non super powered man alive in comics.
