Elektra vs Batman

Originally posted by batdude123

I can’t remember the last time he needed to. But these scans should suffice. It’s been stated many times that his speed and thought process is HIGHLY accelerated.

http://img203.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teentitans5pyratep02034iv.jpg
http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=identitycrisis3pg026in5vv.jpg

Originally posted by batdude123
1. Regardless, you’re using an example from the 80’s to try and prove that Elektra would win this fight. Batman’s had plenty more, and plenty better feats than that since then. You don’t see me hanging on to Bullseye’s defeats of Elektra here, do you?

2. Okay, I’m guessing you mixed up 2 and 3. Anyway, besides Batman’s encounter with Shiva during the Public Enemies arc, the only other legit fight they’ve had was in Batman #427, again back in the 80’s. You’re using old evidence while disregarding any of his other feats.

3. One was hard fought, and that was their sparring match where Batman basically one-armed the entire fight. The other fight was quite easy for Bruce.

4. I’m sorry… MAY be stronger? Her blocking an attack from Silver Samurai doesn’t mean she has the strength of 100 men…

http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deathstrokestrength9kq.jpg

I'm using evidence from the 80's because it's suitable and isn't countered by newer feats..
The lady shiva thing only "countered" if you think she wasn't brain washed.. Which as you pointed out is still up for debate.
The Deathstroke fight has been heavily supported in their more recent encounter and Batman was even fairing worse than he did before when DS's attention was turned to him.
10 tons is over 20,000 lbs one would assume that being able to counteract that strength beings up serious doubt. Though I'll grant you that DS is stronger.

Originally posted by batdude123
Nor does it even mean that she has super strength. Come on now, jinzin. 😬 And
anyway, “tripping Flash” isn’t his only feat of speed.

Originally posted by batdude123
I love how you can post feats for Elektra that’s meant to show why she wins this and yet when I post scans of Batman doing things that are [b]easily superior to her feats, they’re ignored. Double standard much? 😐 [/B]

He's fast. Okay... Is he fast enough to block automatic gunfire?
He's good... Okay... Is he good enough to take down another top tier known DC MA in two hits?
I think they both have the same skill and the only argument you may have that's convincing is for his strength.

I simply don't see how Batman is supposed to beat someone who's at his skill level but probably much faster than himself.

Originally posted by batdude123
So who or what is the most character Elektra has beaten in combat? Taskmaster? Uh… impressive, yes, but enough evidence to suggest that she is capable of beating BATMAN in a h2h fight for a majority? Hellz to the no. 😬

Also, the opening post for this thread stated "no bat toys" for Batman, as in- no utility belt. I assume since it says "Batman" and not "Bruce Wayne," he's wearing the costume. And even without it, he would still win.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yet that's not one of the reasons he gives. And he WAS giving reasons.

All his reasons seemed to be the same.

Originally posted by jinzin
Two hits a few other high ranking fighters.. But are you looking for strictly top tier?
Also,
As stated before I consider the EOTS Wolverine fight at least a second tier feat. She's done better against a mind controlled Wolverine than DD has, And a against a regular Wolverine than DD has.

Who else high ranking has she 2 hitted?

Better than DD vs a mind controlled Wolvie as well as fighting hand ninjas? I dont think shes dont better than one shotting a regualr Wolvie. I guess you dont count that though, so i cant say much about that.

Originally posted by jinzin
Not in her first encounter with him andshe was owning him regardless.

In the fight you mention with Tasky, that wasnt their first encounter with each other? If not, when was the first?

Originally posted by jinzin
The answer I was looking for was no since it was an early ass appearance.. He was only powered up for ashort time between his time as a superhero and his fight/help with Kitty Pride.

So when he became a superhero, he got a 10 cl strength boost for a couple of arcs, then lost it? Can you post what exactly it is that she did?

Originally posted by jinzin
lol no.

So can you tell or show how she took out 2 helicopters with nothing. Id like to see it.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not sure that's really DD using telepathy as much as it's someone elseusing telepathy and DD responding to it hence the exaggerated bubble for the ninja and not for DD.

Disarmed? Sure, stripped a gun away from him so fast he didn't even know it was missing from his hands? No....

That's the thing, Everything she does is a cut above DD until they start working together or against one another.. It's CIS at it's best.

But DD isn't in this fight. 😬

Its DD using it. All Chaste members have the color scheme around their bubbles when talking. As shown here.

In this scan, Matt mentions how he was rusty. Thats an indication showing that its not him just thinking while Stone is reading his thoughts.

Like i said, DD never tried to strip away Punishers gun without him knowing. Does that make him any slower than Elektra? No.

The only think that shes done that can be considered a cut above DD is her taking down Tasky with 2 hits. And thats only because DD has fought Tasky and didnt do it. I cant say all the other things are comparable because DD hasnt attempted to do the things you say shes done the same as her. If thats the case, i can ask if shes downed Cap in 1 move, downed Panther in 2, took hits from the Hulk, Namor and Thor, downed Spidey, etc. Its just not fair to bring up.

Dont get me wrong, i do believe she can hang with elites and even beat them. Just here to defend DD. 😄

True, he isnt in this fight.

Originally posted by jrodslam
All his reasons seemed to be the same.

Hm, I missed the reference to hell (and I just read that book.. )

I concede to that then.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Who else high ranking has she 2 hitted?

Better than DD vs a mind controlled Wolvie as well as fighting hand ninjas? I dont think shes dont better than one shotting a regualr Wolvie. I guess you dont count that though, so i cant say much about that.

Again Wolverine in EOTS (as stated before though it's not completely legitimate I think it still stands as a second tier feat).

You already discounted Zaran.
Yeah I don't count that, when you have him being written by Ennis taking rocket launchers, shotgun blasts and Hulk punches without really caring it's ridiculous to be having DD drop him with a throat chop. I maintain that the only time DD's ever dealt with Wolverine where Wolverine was in his right mind and no being written by Ennis dumbing him down or powering him up depending on his story's needs that DD got put in a full nelson in three panels.
Wolverine hasn't done that to Elektra any of the times they've crossed paths.

Originally posted by jrodslam
In the fight you mention with Tasky, that wasnt their first encounter with each other? If not, when was the first?

There were two, the fist had TM using every technique from Cap, to Spiderman and she treated him like a clown until he started using DD's fighting style which even his fighting style alone threw her CIS of her game. The second he tried it again and she plowed through his ass, and that was after kickin around Backlash.

Originally posted by jrodslam
So when he became a superhero, he got a 10 cl strength boost for a couple of arcs, then lost it? Can you post what exactly it is that she did?

The fight? Sure, I won't have access to my books for a few days though.

Originally posted by jrodslam
So can you tell or show how she took out 2 helicopters with nothing. Id like to see it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its DD using it. All Chaste members have the color scheme around their bubbles when talking. As shown here.

In this scan, Matt mentions how he was rusty. Thats an indication showing that its not him just thinking while Stone is reading his thoughts.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Like i said, DD never tried to strip away Punishers gun without him knowing. Does that make him any slower than Elektra? No.

The only think that shes done that can be considered a cut above DD is her taking down Tasky with 2 hits. And thats only because DD has fought Tasky and didnt do it. I cant say all the other things are comparable because DD hasnt attempted to do the things you say shes done the same as her. If thats the case, i can ask if shes downed Cap in 1 move, downed Panther in 2, took hits from the Hulk, Namor and Thor, downed Spidey, etc. Its just not fair to bring up.

Dont get me wrong, i do believe she can hang with elites and even beat them. Just here to defend DD. 😄

True, he isnt in this fight.

DD fought Tasky and practically had an admission of action that he couldn't take Tasky down in any quick amount of time much less two hits.

DD has an extensive career.. the difference is that DD has at least had the opportunity to try the same feats and he didn't do so hot as she did, and CIS wasn't even a factor for him so I fail to see how her feats aren't more impressive.

To me it's this simple, She has for all intents and purposes speedblitzed a high tier streeter like Punisher. That's a cut above most street levels.

She has blocked automatic gunfire, a cut above most sreet levels.

Even if Batman's as good as her in sheer skill and I do happen to think he's probably got her number there, his speed just isn't going to be enough to keep him in a fight with her.

Originally posted by jinzin
Again Wolverine in EOTS (as stated before though it's not completely legitimate I think it still stands as a second tier feat).

You already discounted Zaran.
Yeah I don't count that, when you have him being written by Ennis taking rocket launchers, shotgun blasts and Hulk punches without really caring it's ridiculous to be having DD drop him with a throat chop. I maintain that the only time DD's ever dealt with Wolverine where Wolverine was in his right mind and no being written by Ennis dumbing him down or powering him up depending on his story's needs that DD got put in a full nelson in three panels.
Wolverine hasn't done that to Elektra any of the times they've crossed paths.

Well les not forget that when this full nelson was put on DD, Matt was free in the next. Les also not forget he was trying to stop a Wolverine who he thought was trying to hurt Mary. Again, les not forget that because of DD and Mary's past, DD's mind isnt in the right place. Wolverine even stated that himself, thus DD being in a full nelson is hardly considered a feat imo.

Originally posted by jinzin
There were two, the fist had TM using every technique from Cap, to Spiderman and she treated him like a clown until he started using DD's fighting style which even his fighting style alone threw her CIS of her game. The second he tried it again and she plowed through his ass, and that was after kickin around Backlash.

Damn, i couldve sworn that was in the same fight. Ah well.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm guessing so, either that or it was just straight up forgotten/ignored after the fact.

That tends to happen every now and then.😬

Originally posted by jinzin
Well know I question if it's something only members can do with eachother and if that's the case is it still reasonable to call it TP.

Stick did it to Matt before he even learned how to do it.

Originally posted by jinzin
You'd think that if DD had that kind of speed he'd use it in their fights.. He hasn't and some of those fights have been close a couple he's even lost.. One would assume that if he had that kind of speed those would be perfect times to use it. 😬

There has been several times Punishers mentioned that DD was too fast. Fast enough to where Punisher can even see DD move? Why? As many times as they fight, what fun would that be. I would love to see an actual fight with Punisher and Elektra. I doubt shed be a blur the entire fight.

Originally posted by jinzin
DD fought Tasky and practically had an admission of action that he couldn't take Tasky down in any quick amount of time much less two hits.

DD was going for sweeps, kicks and simple flips.He didnt try nerve hits or anythig to actually know Tasky out. 2nd time they fought, DD was toying with him.

Originally posted by jinzin
DD has an extensive career.. the difference is that DD has at least had the opportunity to try the same feats and he didn't do so hot as she did, and CIS wasn't even a factor for him so I fail to see how her feats aren't more impressive.

Yea, true DD has had the time and opportunity to TRY the feats, but he didnt try them. If he attempted to do the same things she did and failed, then i can accept what youre saying. He didnt though.

Originally posted by jinzin
If you're not aware by now that Ennis can't write worth a crap when it comes to writing other heroes in guest appearances then you seriously need to read up on the man.. Down playing the writer.. pfffft..it's like you don't even know who Ennis is...
You seriously need to read the last couple of pages in the Wolverine/Punisher thread.

So Ennis is crappy but don't act like Millar is Ed Brubaker either. Millar takes them extreme personalities as they are waaay out of character as well. So if you want me to accept Millar's you need to except Ennis. Cherry picking anyone can do that.

Ennis at least made it look like it was one of DD's esoteric pressure points. Either way both Ennis and Millar have there faults.

That second part doesn't even make sense.
Wolverine just saw somebody clobber he obviously considers a huge threat without even trying of course it gave him pause for thought.

Yeah but Logan should know Electra doesn't have his damage soak or insane regeneration but thats beside the point, considering it doesn't mean much that statement. Electra actually kills more unlike DD and has helped Logan in his past training. Logan possibly respects her more and her code of ethics. But considering what Logan said or thought about Daredevil with jealousy and confusion makes me know it is some of Millar's effect.

Yet Wolverine was reffering to their fight not some ninja mission, so it's still a suitable example of what he thinks of her as a peer.

Yeah since Gorgon did it easily while Logan and Electra was a stalemate. Electra was elusive in his fight against Logan, which is a quality or aspect that most ninjas possess. As Gorgon did it easily, still doesn't equate to Electra being the best fighter or over Daredevil in any shape or form. Like me calling calling someone the best boxer and then believing he's actually the best fighter. Two different things.

Their records had Elektra beating him down in a fight weeks before, and crap stomped on by Gorgon... It's obvious why seeing Gorgon ONE SHOT her would make Logan worry.

That's not even the fight I'm reffering to... 🤨

Then which fight are you referencing too? Last fight Electra did good but could not KO Logan. Most street level characters give Logan good amounts of hits like Cap, Deadpool, Ironfist. But that doesn't mean Logan is going to losey, the guy can take whatever they can dish because of his insane healing factor.

There only other fight is when Logan was mentally and physically hurt from Mag ripping his adam out. And even though Electra got more hits, Logan still managed to checkmate her in the end of that fight or some such. Is that the fight your talking about? If thats the one considering the circumstance, doesn't really show anything indicating that Electra is greater then DD.

She was using Logan to turn the whole thing around on the Hand... 😐

She didn't have a problem doing it when he turned on the Hand after infiltrating them did she.

True they teamed up just like most hero stories go. She still admitted to it. Talking to someone telepathically is far from showing any signs of a mind rape. To do so one must prove it against the elites.

Gorgon DID penetrate his mind... 😕
The man was finishing Logan's thoughts out loud... It's safe to assume he has the same level of telepathy she does if not better.
That doesn't discredit her ability to get inside someone elses head... 😬

Penetrate yeah at the level of Electra as you stated he was finishing his sentences. Good level but not great. Find me a feat of Electra erasing someone's entire memory like say Xavier or leaving someone a vegetable then you might have a mind rape. Or Moon dragon putting down Drax with her mind. Those are Mind rape levels. Did she do this to Logan...........no. Did she do this to any elite.........no.

Did she do this in her last updated encounters to any elite............no.

If she can infiltrate a mind like Logans and she did.. I haveto disagree.
Then I think it's my turn to call PIS. Or CIS whichever you prefer.. See the thing is, her direct comparisons againsteither DD or Bullseye usually do look bad as she's not performing at peak levels due to psychological trauma, love or a combination of both. That's the logical assumption of what's going on, the other is that the DD writer was just ignoring Elektra's prowess in that instance to make fora good fight.

Understood that you'll keep on disagreeing. But as long as you don't have any real evidence, I doubt in any debate you'll be doing much other then just referencing what you want and not what is.

And also to add. You love referencing her multiple bullet blocks. Thats not really helping you either. I've seen DD dodge "lasers" energy beams are >>>>then bullets. I've seen Captain America dodge lasers under zero gravity. And block many of them with gauntlets. But those don't mean much in there fight feats.

I mean you stated blocking multiple bullets is WonderWoman level. Dodging Lasers and playing in them like DD and Cap is like Flash level. And to infer for either WonderWoman or Flash is just plain silly.

We seen slower people......who are way slower then multiple bullets or energy beams for that matter tag Electra and the other many other street characters. I've seen Cage grab Electra and throw her into a car in Bendis run. I've seen Natasha just walk up to her and tag Electra as well. So on and so fourth.

You know of Cis and Pis. The bullet blockings or the playing in energy beams is AIS. Artist Induced Stupidity as they do it because it looks flashy or neat. But does not reflect for the real fights.

Electra's fast but lets not go pretending she's really at WonderWoman levels.

Originally posted by jinzin
OMG Cap was turned and facing the man having a conversation he didn't get jumped like in your fantasy.

I said sneak attack or supris attack. Never did I state jumped as in beat down lol.

And there was before Cap saw Task. TM threw his shield at him as Cap was shocked to see who it was. Then TM starting using his arrows and so fourth. Plus if you read the issue before you would know Cap took a stretching literally. He was tied to two monster tractors, as they were separating his limbs as in arms and legs. Plus going through a good bouts with a advanced Robot to boot. By continuity I doubt he was 100 percent, since it took place right after his talk with Connie.

Yeah Task did good but in the end Cap had the edge and considering the circumstances not to shabby at all considering tasky ran away.

Fact is that his curbing Cap even with weapons proves he's a first class fighter. Fact is that Cap's advantage was thanks tohisown element of surprise and ahandy dandy plot device. And you really want to bring up the first encounter? Cause that only proves what I'm already saying, he doesn't have to be losing a fight to run away, it'sjust what he has a habit of doing..
And that fight's even worse, he had Cap on the ground in two panels after starting w/his back to him.

Yeah Cap was on the ground but immediately Taskmaster ran away. Advantage for Tasky there but not a win or even coming close to winning.

Tasky has lost bad to Mr. X.....lost to Electra.....lost to Daredevil.....Deadpool with his hand tied behind his back had the advantage on TM.......to even Moonknight.

Lets face it Taskmaster is good........to even great. But he doesn't have DD's or Cap's record. To even think or suggest is nonsensical IMO

Having impressive fights nowtakes precedence over impressive fights in the 80's? interesting. I guess Wolverine's been improving like a mofo...

Pressure points, pfffttt Elektra isn't kind enough to use pressure points on most of her enemies.

Has she ever stop someone eyesight with a pressure point? Has she ever paralyzed with PPoints? Has she ever induces a heat like pain with PPoints or even referenced death PPoints. Or even PPoints that stop speech?

Yeah I imagine she knows some, just like Cap also. But she has not shown this new level of PPoints that DD has recently shown.

😂

Yeah "he ran way like he did in their first fight" In spite of the fact that Cap was on the ground being beaten like a rug it's because tasky was losing.

You ARE wrong, you don't think Elektra can hang with elites when she has loads of times. You try to discredit a well known first class fighter who's able to take fights to Cap, DD, AND the Cat yet you wanna pretend that because he runs away from fights he's not an "elite" type you think Elektra can't take.. that's wrong.

Electra can hang with the elite I just don't think she can take the majority against Wolverine, DD, Cap, Shang, BlackPanther, or Ironfist. But she can definitely "hang."

I'm going to assume I've seen enough of DD's character to disagree...

He hasn't done half the things I've asked to prove in comparison to Elektra so I'm under the impression that she's clearly superior when CIS ins't involved in the fight, against Batman CIS won't be involved in the fight.

As I disagree considering there fights and there overall records from what I've seen from this thread it hasn't been established at all that her feats are superior in any shape or form.

Already responded to both counts.

Wolverine thinks more of her than he does of DD. She can enter his mind.

Responded above even if he has more respect for her Ninja self it doesn't translate as better fighter.

The love/fear works of DD/Bullseye. But it doesn't for Luke Cage nor Natasha who have easily tagged Electra. And excuse for them then, you'll just have that excuses. As excuses can be done for the many.

Batman can beat the hell out of Elektra 9 times out of 10 or even more. She is very skilled but lets get for real. if Batman gos easy on her she may get three wins, but if Batman gos all out. It's over.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well les not forget that when this full nelson was put on DD, Matt was free in the next. Les also not forget he was trying to stop a Wolverine who he thought was trying to hurt Mary. Again, les not forget that because of DD and Mary's past, DD's mind isnt in the right place. Wolverine even stated that himself, thus DD being in a full nelson is hardly considered a feat imo.

He was out because Wolverine let him go. 😬

Let's not forget he jumped Wolvie out of nowhere who just got done fighting Vengence. Wolverine handled him in 3 panels, I disagree.

Originally posted by jrodslam
That tends to happen every now and then.😬
Stick did it to Matt before he even learned how to do it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
There has been several times Punishers mentioned that DD was too fast. Fast enough to where Punisher can even see DD move? Why? As many times as they fight, what fun would that be. I would love to see an actual fight with Punisher and Elektra. I doubt shed be a blur the entire fight.

Too fast overall? Sure, that's really what I'd expect, but as you said so fast he can't see DD move? nah.

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD was going for sweeps, kicks and simple flips.He didnt try nerve hits or anythig to actually know Tasky out. 2nd time they fought, DD was toying with him..

Originally posted by jrodslam
Yea, true DD has had the time and opportunity to TRY the feats, but he didnt try them. If he attempted to do the same things she did and failed, then i can accept what youre saying. He didnt though.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
So Ennis is crappy but don't act like Millar is Ed Brubaker either. Millar takes them extreme personalities as they are waaay out of character as well. So if you want me to accept Millar's you need to except Ennis. Cherry picking anyone can do that.

Ennis at least made it look like it was one of DD's esoteric pressure points. Either way both Ennis and Millar have there faults.

If you're "picking" Ennis as a legitimate display of how Wolverine can be portrayed then all I can say is you've picked one bad cherry.

How do you explain a throat chop putting Wolverine down when a rocket launcher, shotgun blast to the face, automatic gunfire, sawed legs, a steamroller and a Hulk punch across state lines didn't even affect him?

Again, DD put him down so Ennis could write Punisher getting away and setting up his "prep" (which also ignored character's abilities) in spite of his OWN WRITING having multiple instances of Wolverine uneffected by worse.. It's the very definition of PIS. 😐

If you're going to continue defending him, then I can't help you. You're too far gone.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah but Logan should know Electra doesn't have his damage soak or insane regeneration but thats beside the point, considering it doesn't mean much that statement. Electra actually kills more unlike DD and has helped Logan in his past training. Logan possibly respects her more and her code of ethics. But considering what Logan said or thought about Daredevil with jealousy and confusion makes me know it is some of Millar's effect.

Anyways, Everyone knows that while Wolverine's at the top tier of the street level society in Marvel, any fight with another top tier would be hard fought. They just ambushed Gorgon with missiles, and multitudes of "cape-killers" and Gorgon walked out of it dropping Logan, them, and Elektra like it was a cakewalk. Given that Wolverine already lost to the guy seeing him pick apart a woman who's beat him before would give him pause for thought.. And as the fight proved, his damage soak and regen didn't do dick to help him do anything but prolong a fight with Gorgon.. Hence the problem. Wolverine couldn't outlast his HF, OR match his skills as he admitted.. Watching Gorgon down Elektra with a one hitter quiter was an inclination to the ladder.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah since Gorgon did it easily while Logan and Electra was a stalemate. Electra was elusive in his fight against Logan, which is a quality or aspect that most ninjas possess. As Gorgon did it easily, still doesn't equate to Electra being the best fighter or over Daredevil in any shape or form. Like me calling calling someone the best boxer and then believing he's actually the best fighter. Two different things.

Wolverine's reffering to a fight. 😐

He just took out Elektra, the worlds greatest ninja. What chance do I got?

He wasn't talking about a ninja mission, he was talking about a fight.. I don't know what else to really tell you when you come to your own ridiculous conclusions.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Then which fight are you referencing too? Last fight Electra did good but could not KO Logan. Most street level characters give Logan good amounts of hits like Cap, Deadpool, Ironfist. But that doesn't mean Logan is going to losey, the guy can take whatever they can dish because of his insane healing factor.

She got washed away before she had the chance to finish him off. 😬

Originally posted by Daredevil1
There only other fight is when Logan was mentally and physically hurt from Mag ripping his adam out. And even though Electra got more hits, Logan still managed to checkmate her in the end of that fight or some such. Is that the fight your talking about? If thats the one considering the circumstance, doesn't really show anything indicating that Electra is greater then DD.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
True they teamed up just like most hero stories go. She still admitted to it. Talking to someone telepathically is far from showing any signs of a mind rape. To do so one must prove it against the elites.

Lol, like Elektra needs to prove herself against elites in order to fight Batman right?
Anyways, I think you misunderstand what I think she can do with telepathy to mind **** Batman over, the suggestion is all it takes. Getting her voice in his head I'm positive would throw him off his game a bit.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Penetrate yeah at the level of Electra as you stated he was finishing his sentences. Good level but not great. Find me a feat of Electra erasing someone's entire memory like say Xavier or leaving someone a vegetable then you might have a mind rape. Or Moon dragon putting down Drax with her mind. Those are Mind rape levels. Did she do this to Logan...........no. Did she do this to any elite.........no.

Did she do this in her last updated encounters to any elite............no..

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Understood that you'll keep on disagreeing. But as long as you don't have any real evidence, I doubt in any debate you'll be doing much other then just referencing what you want and not what is.

And also to add. You love referencing her multiple bullet blocks. Thats not really helping you either. I've seen DD dodge "lasers" energy beams are >>>>then bullets. I've seen Captain America dodge lasers under zero gravity. And block many of them with gauntlets. But those don't mean much in there fight feats.

I mean you stated blocking multiple bullets is WonderWoman level. Dodging Lasers and playing in them like DD and Cap is like Flash level. And to infer for either WonderWoman or Flash is just plain silly.

We seen slower people......who are way slower then multiple bullets or energy beams for that matter tag Electra and the other many other street characters. I've seen Cage grab Electra and throw her into a car in Bendis run. I've seen Natasha just walk up to her and tag Electra as well. So on and so fourth.

You know of Cis and Pis. The bullet blockings or the playing in energy beams is AIS. Artist Induced Stupidity as they do it because it looks flashy or neat. But does not reflect for the real fights.

Electra's fast but lets not go pretending she's really at WonderWoman levels.

Pfffft catching or deflecting A bullet is a feat for most high tier streeters, deflectin f*cking machine gun fire puts them at another level.
None of these characters have done it and the fact that when they do get pinned down by machine gun fire the opt to hide behind a table, or a shield, or a wall kinda only shows me they are infact incapable. I never said that she was the flash and Wonder Woman blocking machine gun fire is a feat that makes her impressive so who are you to be so snide at that?

We've seen slower characters tag her in the past which isn't all that admissible here, and we've seen her get tagged by characters she's effected by through way of CIS. Yeah great evidence.

Feats don't matter unless you want them to but then you want to now? HA!

Batman's fast, but let's not pretend we've seen him blocking automatic arms fire, or speedblitzing other streeters at Punisher's ( I can bat Cap's shield throw out of the air and hold it down with my foot) level. 😐

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I said sneak attack or supris attack. Never did I state jumped as in beat down lol.

And there was before Cap saw Task. TM threw his shield at him as Cap was shocked to see who it was. Then TM starting using his arrows and so fourth. Plus if you read the issue before you would know Cap took a stretching literally. He was tied to two monster tractors, as they were separating his limbs as in arms and legs. Plus going through a good bouts with a advanced Robot to boot. By continuity I doubt he was 100 percent, since it took place right after his talk with Connie.

Yeah Task did good but in the end Cap had the edge and considering the circumstances not to shabby at all considering tasky ran away.

Taskmaster runs away it's what the man does. You want to talk about circumstances and surprise yet ignore how surprised Task was at the shield that came out of nowhere or the sudden drop off they fell into.
You want to talk about runaway yet Cap wasn't exactly begging to keep fighting either.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah Cap was on the ground but immediately Taskmaster ran away. Advantage for Tasky there but not a win or even coming close to winning.

🙄

Yeah there's nothing impressive about taking down both Iron Man and Cap in one page when both characters try to attack him from behind.. pffft.. you're delusional.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Tasky has lost bad to Mr. X.....lost to Electra.....lost to Daredevil.....Deadpool with his hand tied behind his back had the advantage on TM.......to even Moonknight.

Mr. X is a telepath who's got skills that rank at least second tier.. Taskmaster losing to that doesn't mean dick for a debate about him fighting someone who wasn't using TP.
Elektra.. well yeah.. that's afterall the point of bringing him up... Way to keep up with the train of thought by the way.
Deadpool... Taskmaster was landing kill shots on him. DP beat him because he has a HF that can regenerate him from goo.. I'm not sure what exactly you think that means against his skill level.
Moonknight crashed a jet into a building a launched TM through the ceiling with his ejection hatch.. Beyond that, the only "fighting" they did TM won. He only "lost" the fight you're referring to because they didn't fight... Mk scared the crap out of him... there was no display of skill there, just damage soak.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Lets face it Taskmaster is good........to even great. But he doesn't have DD's or Cap's record. To even think or suggest is nonsensical IMO

Because he's not a flagship character or re-occuring villain. His record STATISICALLY speaking vs. high class MA's as opposed to Cap and DD speaks volumes about being in their league. Gorgon didn't have muh panel time and really doesn't have a comparible record, I guess he's no threat to these guys either right?
Pfffft that logic is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Has she ever stop someone eyesight with a pressure point? Has she ever paralyzed with PPoints? Has she ever induces a heat like pain with PPoints or even referenced death PPoints. Or even PPoints that stop speech?

She's used Ppoints to stop Wolverine.
Again given that she treats all her enemies with extreme prejudice it's not hard to see why she's not seen doing that sort of stuff. Why use pressure points when you can punch through a mans chest.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah I imagine she knows some, just like Cap also. But she has not shown this new level of PPoints that DD has recently shown.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Electra can hang with the elite I just don't think she can take the majority against Wolverine, DD, Cap, Shang, BlackPanther, or Ironfist. But she can definitely "hang."

Wolverine has an HF that can regrow a heart in 3 panels.
DD has her heart, her love and a radar sense.
Shang can manipulate his chi to hurt Thing and match Spiderman's sheer strength, speed and power.
Blackpanther has a vibranium suit.
Iron Fist is like Shang.

Batman has none of these things going for him sans chi manipulation.. Infact, most of the more impressive things he can do with his chi, and mind/ninja trickery are comparative to Elektra herself...
There's no real reason to assume that he'd beat her so easily if at all.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
As I disagree considering there fights and there overall records from what I've seen from this thread it hasn't been established at all that her feats are superior in any shape or form.

Responded above even if he has more respect for her Ninja self it doesn't translate as better fighter.

The love/fear works of DD/Bullseye. But it doesn't for Luke Cage nor Natasha who have easily tagged Electra. And excuse for them then, you'll just have that excuses. As excuses can be done for the many.

Excuses like you made for Taskmasters record? Like I said before, hypocrite.

Originally posted by jinzin
[B]Uh, no. Millar's at BEST a fan of the characters he writes. Ennis is a hack who purposely includes bias, ignores powers, and purposefully writes down characters to incite feuds w/other writers..

If you're "picking" Ennis as a legitimate display of how Wolverine can be portrayed then all I can say is you've picked one bad cherry.

How do you explain a throat chop putting Wolverine down when a rocket launcher, shotgun blast to the face, automatic gunfire, sawed legs, a steamroller and a Hulk punch across state lines didn't even affect him?

Again, DD put him down so Ennis could write Punisher getting away and setting up his "prep" (which also ignored character's abilities) in spite of his OWN WRITING having multiple instances of Wolverine uneffected by worse.. It's the very definition of PIS. 😐

If you're going to continue defending him, then I can't help you. You're too far gone.

You've basically described Logan’s career with the many various writers, as Millar did the same thing too boot. Mr. Millar I make Logan into a withering low self esteem jealous pathetic version of Logan as the exact quote was: " Stupid. Took down Electra dumbass. Worlds greatest greatest ninja. What chance do you have"" version of a whiny lame Wolverine.

The same Electra that never did anything to display better skills then DD or have the greater advantages that Logan has for that matter. The same Logan from Millar that was taking it too some the X-men, fighting off the Human Torch's flame, and took down the Thing easily like it was a walk in the park.

This isn't even wondering why his healing was lame since Millar then had Logan survive decapitations and other crazy things later on in his run. Miller aka make Cap/Tony looking like rambling babbling idiots not even mention the hosts of other things that took place in Civil War done by Miller. But hey if you think that’s the way Logan personality is when you look at his other past appearances with Electra, then you go right ahead.

All his thoughts at that point weren't even his own. 🤨
What he said about Elektra was him. What he said about DD: "I don't remember much of it. Wasn't in my right mind at the time".

And if you would have re-checked. His thoughts were separated as his other thoughts had different colors, even if he couldn't remember his own, it’s a moot point.

Also if you think about it, even if all his thoughts were not from him. The fact that there from the Guru's of the higher end evil groups, that’s a huge compliment too DD still. So either way it’s a win.........win compliment for DD.

Anyways, Everyone knows that while Wolverine's at the top tier of the street level society in Marvel, any fight with another top tier would be hard fought. They just ambushed Gorgon with missiles, and multitudes of "cape-killers" and Gorgon walked out of it dropping Logan, them, and Elektra like it was a cakewalk. Given that Wolverine already lost to the guy seeing him pick apart a woman who's beat him before would give him pause for thought.. And as the fight proved, his damage soak and regen didn't do dick to help him do anything but prolong a fight with Gorgon.. Hence the problem. Wolverine couldn't outlast his HF, OR match his skills as he admitted.. Watching Gorgon down Elektra with a one hitter quiter was an inclination to the ladder.

Accept Logan was never defeated by Electra, showing mainly that you have a skewed way at looking at that fight.

Let’s see Electra waits for group to hold down Logan.....check.
Red confetti sprays in Logans face. Organs bursting in the air every time I swing remarks Logan............check.

Electra states she's going to get only one chance at this.......check
Logan’s still being held down by group……………….check
As she stabs Logan in the back, which is referenced able to keep Logan down. And you cry foul when DD uses his strike to put Logan down. Especially considering his regenerative abilities.

And too top it all off you claim this is a victory for Electra............sheeeeesh. God forbid you judge MMA fights or Boxing or any athletic competition for that matter.

Let’s not forget before the explosion Logan is completely conscious and ready to remove the sais, as the explosion hits making all the water flush them away. And you declare this fight a Electra victory. How laughable.

Wolverine's reffering to a fight. 😐

He just took out Elektra, the worlds greatest ninja. What chance do I got?

He wasn't talking about a ninja mission, he was talking about a fight.. I don't know what else to really tell you when you come to your own ridiculous conclusions.

Yes he's mentioning Electra in a manner that goes with what she does, greatest ninja. Still doesn't equate to greatest fighter, especially if you actually look at Electra's fight with Logan. As I covered above. What chances does Logan have, there better then Electras considering if you remove the Pis, Cis, Ais. You do it all the time, I might as well.

They're first one where she stabbed him in the heart and left him for dead.

She got washed away before she had the chance to finish him off. 😬

No, but.. Even there, that was after Wolverine's meditation, he regained his mentality at that point, and physically he was at an entire new level of regeneration and strength. That actually hurts your argument more then it helps.

Left him for dead, covered above. It sure didn't show his new level of regeneration and strength.

Lol, like Elektra needs to prove herself against elites in order to fight Batman right?
Anyways, I think you misunderstand what I think she can do with telepathy to mind **** Batman over, the suggestion is all it takes. Getting her voice in his head I'm positive would throw him off his game a bit.

Well there you go, you're misunderstanding what I was aiming at when I said it, and now looking back I admit I should have clarified. I don't think Elektra's near a level of TP to imply that she can erase entire memories.

No Electra doesn't need to prove herself against the elite. But she does fight them and we tend to see she isn't "superior" against them by any means. Getting her voice in his head could throw his game off, but then again who knows. Definitely not anything like a mind rape at all, seems like your back peddling.

So you can call PIS but not me? Hypocritical.
But when Elektra downs top tiers or has DD at sai point that's not "what is"? Yup hypocritical again.

Figure I could play your game. Shoot it makes it that much easier. Mr. I hide deteals about fights to make my Electra look good.

Shoot your first hypocrisy was crying PIS for DD bringing down Logan and not crying PIS for Electra doing the same to Logan. Plus you left out on purpose important details of said fight and counted as a win for Electra……..lame.

Pfffft catching or deflecting A bullet is a feat for most high tier streeters, deflectin f*cking machine gun fire puts them at another level.
None of these characters have done it and the fact that when they do get pinned down by machine gun fire the opt to hide behind a table, or a shield, or a wall kinda only shows me they are infact incapable. I never said that she was the flash and Wonder Woman blocking machine gun fire is a feat that makes her impressive so who are you to be so snide at that?

Big deal dodging machine gun fire, as we've seen her get tagged by everyone she's fought. Ha.

The fact you believe so is irrelevant towards her fights. I’ve seen Batman when a gun shooter was pointing it right at him. Bruce disappears in front of his eyes as Bruce was behind him, before he could even react. Has Electra ever done that? It’s a fancy feat of Electra no doubt, but it doesn’t mean she will be superior to Bruce in speed. Especially if you actually consider Bruce’s own fights with people who’s stats are better then Electra. Like Slade for that matter. Slade I give him the majority against Batman. Electra it would even be a bit worse for her. But the fact that Batman has a win against Slade, shows how good is Bruce at tagging someone faster, stronger, and smarter then Electra.

Shoot I’ve seen Bruce tag characters that are just dependent of just speed as there primary ability. Not snide at the Electra feat as its impressive but pretending Batman doesn’t have feats to match is biased on your part and shows you don’t know much on Batman.

And you are wrong, as you did say Wonder Woman level as seen below.

Originally posted by jinzin
Uh, yes I have. Read Wolverine: Agent of Shield, she infiltrates Wolverine's head, even with is high telepathic resistance.

Again, you're comparing DD's feats to before Elektra had her second "rebirth". It wasn't until her second series that she started doing these crazy superhuman things. 😐

And ABC logic HAS to be applied here since her CIS affects her too much for it not to come into play in a comparison with DD.

DD has batted back one or two bullets at a time NEVER has he deflected automatic gunfire like Elektra did are you F*cking kidding me? That's a speed feat on level with Wonder Woman. So what if he's gone toe to toe with Spiderman he's outmatched over 90% of the time he does. That also proves nothing since Spidey has an affinity when it comes to skilled street levels..

And, you missunderstand, YOU show me where DD has put down someone of Taskmasters caliber in two hits because Elektra has done it to TM himself!

LOL

Now you’ll back peddle on that.

We've seen slower characters tag her in the past which isn't all that admissible here, and we've seen her get tagged by characters she's effected by through way of CIS. Yeah great evidence.

Feats don't matter unless you want them to but then you want to now? HA!

Batman's fast, but let's not pretend we've seen him blocking automatic arms fire, or speedblitzing other streeters at Punisher's ( I can bat Cap's shield throw out of the air and hold it down with my foot) level. 😐 [/B]

Oh feats matter. Just not the way you are intending them too. No we’ve seen Batman tag speedsters, to Slade, and meta humans that are considered to have somewhat mild superhuman speed. Maybe you just need to quit pretending otherwise.

Originally posted by jinzin
Both phrases have leading implications, of which neither were a part of the fight. The only surprise was that Taskmaster was there in the first place. There was no "sneak attack" nor "surprise attack" Cap was fully aware that he was about to be in a fight and it was something even commented on right before the fight kicked off.

Again your seeing what you want too see. There was a sneak attack before Cap knew who it was. TM attempted and Cap barely dodged it. Then as Cap was in shock and realized who it was. TM unloaded on with his explosions using everything in his arsenal against a Cap who is not at 100 percent. As again I noticed you did not even mention at all geeeeeeeeeeee…….I wonder why.

Taskmaster runs away it's what the man does. You want to talk about circumstances and surprise yet ignore how surprised Task was at the shield that came out of nowhere or the sudden drop off they fell into.
You want to talk about runaway yet Cap wasn't exactly begging to keep fighting either.

Yet the surprised happened during the fight. Cap didn’t try to sneak attack him like Taskmaster did. Cap didn’t go after TM, because he wanted to see if his friend was ok. So again your point is moot.

Point is TM unloaded everything and the kitchen sink at a Cap who was roughed up bad before. The fact that Cap got the better of him at then end and Tasky ran. Speaks volumes for Cap. Much more so then TM. To deny that is denial.

So. When Cap knocks Taskmaster a high rise, he loses. When Cap gets knocked down and beaten upon and TM chooses to run he... still loses?

🙄

Yeah there's nothing impressive about taking down both Iron Man and Cap in one page when both characters try to attack him from behind.. pffft.. you're delusional.

That one I won’t deny is impressive but not defining as neither Cap nor Ironman was out. Down yes but not out as in helpless or unconscious no. Outside of this TM doesn’t really look too great though against the likes of DD, Electra, Mr.X., Deadpool, Moonknight.

So eh…..🙂

Mr. X is a telepath who's got skills that rank at least second tier.. Taskmaster losing to that doesn't mean dick for a debate about him fighting someone who wasn't using TP.
Elektra.. well yeah.. that's afterall the point of bringing him up... Way to keep up with the train of thought by the way.
Deadpool... Taskmaster was landing kill shots on him. DP beat him because he has a HF that can regenerate him from goo.. I'm not sure what exactly you think that means against his skill level.
Moonknight crashed a jet into a building a launched TM through the ceiling with his ejection hatch.. Beyond that, the only "fighting" they did TM won. He only "lost" the fight you're referring to because they didn't fight... Mk scared the crap out of him... there was no display of skill there, just damage soak.

The fact that you left out details on the fight of Electra vs Logan declaring Electra the victory shows you can’t be trusted on these details.

The fact you left out details on the fight with Cap vs Taskmaster. Like a lie on a attempted sneak attack that did occur. And how Cap was not 100 % shows that above is dubious at best.

speaking vs. high class MA's as opposed to Cap and DD speaks volumes about being in their league. Gorgon didn't have muh panel time and really doesn't have a comparible record, I guess he's no threat to these guys either right?
Pfffft that logic is ridiculous.

No but we saw what he easily did too Electra, Logan(twice) and his feats. Not really comparable at all.

She's used Ppoints to stop Wolverine.
Again given that she treats all her enemies with extreme prejudice it's not hard to see why she's not seen doing that sort of stuff. Why use pressure points when you can punch through a mans chest.

Yeah she’s used PPoints to stop Wolverine he was hurt and being held down. Not a very good point and know were the level of PPoints that DD has used. If you believe she does possess such level, then the burden of proof is on you.

That's all some characters know. Knowing PPoints isn't an instant superiority in fighting skill. I.E. Karnak getting dropped by Cap and BP.

Agree just like blocking lots of bullets isn’t in comparison to the elites feats. Karnak got drop by Cap via sneak attack. Please quit leaving out information on how fights go.

BP actually did defeat Karnak. Finally you got something right.

Wolverine has an HF that can regrow a heart in 3 panels. .

Agree this is why Millar is a idiot for having Logan even state what chances does he have since Gorgon put down Electra. Logan has more advantages then either Electra or Daredevil for that matter. And I like Daredevil more.

DD has her heart, her love and a radar sense.
Shang can manipulate his chi to hurt Thing and match Spiderman's sheer strength, speed and power.
Blackpanther has a vibranium suit.
Iron Fist is like Shang.

Batman has none of these things going for him sans chi manipulation.. Infact, most of the more impressive things he can do with his chi, and mind/ninja trickery are comparative to Elektra herself...
There's no real reason to assume that he'd beat her so easily if at all. Excuses like you made for Taskmasters record? Like I said before, hypocrite.

C’mon do you even know Bats. He has feats that are comparable to some of the ones you’ve mentioned. Shang hurt Thing. Shang hurt him barely for him to get out of Things grip. It’s impressive since its Thing, but Bats has similar powerful striking feats like hurting Aquaman, redirecting Captain Marvel, hurting M-body of Darkseid. Bruce has shown he could put his fingers through bricks and kicks through a tree. And that’s just the tip of the ice berg on his feats.

Plus lets face it Shang or Bruce hurting those type of guys are high end feats. The better feats are Batman vs his street level group and Shang vs his street level group. To see were they stand with one another.

And I definitely don’t think Batman wins “easily” against Electra I just think he’ll take the majority and it won’t be easy.

Originally posted by jinzin
Accelerated sure. Enough to block automatic gunfire... When you have Dick stomping mudholes accross his face it would appear not.

It was a sneak blitz which Deathstroke was able to counter. Anyway, you’re dodging the point. Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bullets.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm using evidence from the 80's because it's suitable and isn't countered by newer feats..
The lady shiva thing only "countered" if you think she wasn't brain washed.. Which as you pointed out is still up for debate.

Indeed, her being mind controlled is up for debate. It’s just as viable as me saying he beat Shiva so hard then because he was pissed about the ass kicking Shiva put on Catwoman.

Originally posted by jinzin
The Deathstroke fight has been heavily supported in their more recent encounter and Batman was even fairing worse than he did before when DS's attention was turned to him.

And also since that fight, Batman has been shown to knock Deathstroke out with one kick.

Originally posted by jinzin
10 tons is over 20,000 lbs one would assume that being able to counteract that strength beings up serious doubt. Though I'll grant you that DS is stronger.

A guy who's got class 10 strength is bearing down on her head and she's holding him back. She's not a parry or deflection of his own power she just straight stopped it. How does that not prove she has super strength.
Aside from that she's seen casually holding men above her head on her sais.
Punching through mens chests.
& Launching hands through kevlar (supposed to have an impact tolerance stronger than steel).

If things like this constitute super strength, then I guess Batman has it too. Even better actually, considering he’s got more impressive showings.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not ignoring them, I just don't see how those scans prove a whole lot for this fight.

doh

So, in other words, you didn’t look at my posts at all. Great…

Originally posted by jinzin
He's fast. Okay... Is he fast enough to block automatic gunfire?
He's good... Okay... Is he good enough to take down another top tier known DC MA in two hits?

Look, I’m not going to proceed with this debate if you’re going to ask me questions about his repertoire of feats while at the same time not acknowledging the posts I gave with plenty of them on there. 😐

Originally posted by jinzin
I think they both have the same skill and the only argument you may have that's convincing is for his strength.

I would actually put Batman ahead of her in skills. Call me crazy, but I’ve never actually seen her knock people the f*ck out with mere taps of her finger like Batman has.

Originally posted by jinzin
I simply don't see how Batman is supposed to beat someone who's at his skill level but probably much faster than himself.

Ah ha! Probably much faster than himself? 😉

Bruce easily has comparable feats of speed. For one, he was able to steal Kyle's ring right off his finger without Kyle even realizing what Batman did.

http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfzk5.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfjd6.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfcm6.jpg

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, my friend.

Originally posted by jinzin
I dunno about that. I have to draw attention to the fact that TM IS a marvel elite when it comes to MA's and he's got a winning/tie record against someone who is Batman's practical equal in the MU and as been decreed as such by both companies multiple times.. That alone should warrant that this fight's even money.
I disagree.

ABC logic like this usually doesn’t work. I’m not buying into the fact that Elektra > Taskmaster and Taskmaster > Captain America and Captain America = Batman, therefore Elektra is > Batman.

That’s akin to me saying that Batman has beaten Solomon Grundy twice (which he totally has awesome) and Grundy has beaten the Justice League, therefore Batman > JLA.

Anyway, Batman wins this imo because of the superiority of his feats.

Originally posted by batdude123
It was a sneak blitz which Deathstroke was able to counter. Anyway, you’re dodging the point. Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bullets.

Originally posted by batdude123
Indeed, her being mind controlled is up for debate. It’s just as viable as me saying he beat Shiva so hard then because he was pissed about the ass kicking Shiva put on Catwoman.

just as viable being not viable.

Originally posted by batdude123
And also since that fight, Batman has been shown to knock Deathstroke out with one kick.

In another non fight? yeah...

Originally posted by batdude123
If things like this constitute super strength, then I guess Batman has it too. Even better actually, considering he’s got more impressive showings.

Originally posted by batdude123
doh

So, in other words, you didn’t look at my posts at all. Great…

Originally posted by batdude123
Look, I’m not going to proceed with this debate if you’re going to ask me questions about his repertoire of feats while at the same time not acknowledging the posts I gave with plenty of them on there. 😐

So... No.. now that's point dodging.
I didn't ignore the scans I looked at them... I didn't respond to them because again, aside from Batman's strength, they don't make much of a case against Elektra.

Originally posted by batdude123
I would actually put Batman ahead of her in skills. Call me crazy, but I’ve never actually seen her knock people the f*ck out with mere taps of her finger like Batman has.

Originally posted by batdude123
Ah ha! [b]Probably much faster than himself? 😉

Bruce easily has comparable feats of speed. For one, he was able to steal Kyle's ring right off his finger without Kyle even realizing what Batman did.

http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfzk5.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfjd6.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfcm6.jpg

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, my friend.
[/B]

Kyle's the most impressive green Lantern in DC but he 1) isn't a peak human and 2) wasn't looking for any hostilities from Batman... so that proves exaclty nothing.

Originally posted by batdude123
ABC logic like this usually doesn’t work. I’m not buying into the fact that Elektra > Taskmaster and Taskmaster > Captain America and Captain America = Batman, therefore Elektra is > Batman.

Anyways, I don't think that TM is > Captain America.. Just that he is an elite fighter who can give both Cap and Bat a clear run for their money.

Originally posted by batdude123
That’s akin to me saying that Batman has beaten Solomon Grundy twice (which he totally has awesome) and Grundy has beaten the Justice League, therefore Batman > JLA.

Kinda, except that I wasn't trying to prove that Elektra is better than Cap, just that she can hang with top tier MA's.

Originally posted by batdude123
Anyway, Batman wins this imo because of the superiority of his feats.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
You've basically described Logan’s career with the many various writers, as Millar did the same thing too boot. Mr. Millar I make Logan into a withering low self esteem jealous pathetic version of Logan as the exact quote was: " Stupid. Took down Electra dumbass. Worlds greatest greatest ninja. What chance do you have"" version of a whiny lame Wolverine.
The same Electra that never did anything to display better skills then DD or have the greater advantages that Logan has for that matter. The same Logan from Millar that was taking it too some the X-men, fighting off the Human Torch's flame, and took down the Thing easily like it was a walk in the park.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
This isn't even wondering why his healing was lame since Millar then had Logan survive decapitations and other crazy things later on in his run. Miller aka make Cap/Tony looking like rambling babbling idiots not even mention the hosts of other things that took place in Civil War done by Miller. But hey if you think that’s the way Logan personality is when you look at his other past appearances with Electra, then you go right ahead.

Where was his HF "lame". He healed from hamburger meat, and was talking with swords in his throat.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And if you would have re-checked. His thoughts were separated as his other thoughts had different colors, even if he couldn't remember his own, it’s a moot point.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also if you think about it, even if all his thoughts were not from him. The fact that there from the Guru's of the higher end evil groups, that’s a huge compliment too DD still. So either way it’s a win.........win compliment for DD.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Accept Logan was never defeated by Electra, showing mainly that you have a skewed way at looking at that fight.

Let’s see Electra waits for group to hold down Logan.....check.
Red confetti sprays in Logans face. Organs bursting in the air every time I swing remarks Logan............check.

Electra states she's going to get only one chance at this.......check
Logan’s still being held down by group……………….check
As she stabs Logan in the back, which is referenced able to keep Logan down. And you cry foul when DD uses his strike to put Logan down. Especially considering his regenerative abilities.

And too top it all off you claim this is a victory for Electra............sheeeeesh. God forbid you judge MMA fights or Boxing or any athletic competition for that matter.

Let’s not forget before the explosion Logan is completely conscious and ready to remove the sais, as the explosion hits making all the water flush them away. And you declare this fight a Electra victory. How laughable.

Again.. Not even the fight I was reffering too.. But Elektra there clearly has an advantage. Wolverine's on the ground sais in his shoulders (again) and about to be pummbled with a lead pipe... Yeah she definitely wasn't winning that one. 🙄

Anyways, that's not the fight I'm reffering to that Wolverine would remember because "Wasn't in my right mind at the time".

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes he's mentioning Electra in a manner that goes with what she does, greatest ninja. Still doesn't equate to greatest fighter, especially if you actually look at Electra's fight with Logan. As I covered above. What chances does Logan have, there better then Electras considering if you remove the Pis, Cis, Ais. You do it all the time, I might as well.

"they're fighting but Wolverine's REALLY talking about sneaking around and assassinations"

"Wolverine was on the ground and needed saving by two plot devices but it wasn't a win for Elektra"

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Left him for dead, covered above. It sure didn't show his new level of regeneration and strength.

And that fight took place well before his second mutation...

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No Electra doesn't need to prove herself against the elite. But she does fight them and we tend to see she isn't "superior" against them by any means. Getting her voice in his head could throw his game off, but then again who knows. Definitely not anything like a mind rape at all, seems like your back peddling.

OMG.. So when she does pwn elites like Wolverine, TM, DD, and Razorfist it doesn't count.

And again, it wasn't what I meant. I'm not backpeddling it just wasn't what I meant, not that there isn't any evidence to support that she couldn't mind rape Batman like you're thinking, I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt that she might not be able to.

Read Elektra: Assassin, she literally forces her mind into other people and makes them act as her vessal. No joke.

So like you've been this entire thread.. you're once again.. wrong.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Figure I could play your game. Shoot it makes it that much easier. Mr. I hide deteals about fights to make my Electra look good.

you mean like using DD and bullseye as a clear indication of what she can and can't do in spite of CIS?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Shoot your first hypocrisy was crying PIS for DD bringing down Logan and not crying PIS for Electra doing the same to Logan. Plus you left out on purpose important details of said fight and counted as a win for Electra……..lame.

NOT THE FIGHT I WAS REFFERING TO.

And there's nothing wrong with his HF in his EOTS fight with Elektra in terms of the writing. He was hamburger meat shortly before that fight. His HF would clearly not be fast acting.

It IS PIS when you have a character downed by something and then ignore that to abuse him later.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Big deal dodging machine gun fire, as we've seen her get tagged by everyone she's fought. Ha.

You mean like Wolverine? Oh wait no.
No Taskmaster? no can't be it.
Wait! I know Zaran? Nu-uh.
Razorfist? Nah.
Backlash? Nine!

Oh no I know DD and Bullseye because clearly PIS and CIS don't mean much to you if you're trying to make a point... pffft..

blocking machine gun fire>>> dodging (all streeters do that)

Originally posted by Daredevil1
The fact you believe so is irrelevant towards her fights. I’ve seen Batman when a gun shooter was pointing it right at him. Bruce disappears in front of his eyes as Bruce was behind him, before he could even react. Has Electra ever done that? It’s a fancy feat of Electra no doubt, but it doesn’t mean she will be superior to Bruce in speed. Especially if you actually consider Bruce’s own fights with people who’s stats are better then Electra. Like Slade for that matter. Slade I give him the majority against Batman. Electra it would even be a bit worse for her. But the fact that Batman has a win against Slade, shows how good is Bruce at tagging someone faster, stronger, and smarter then Electra.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Shoot I’ve seen Bruce tag characters that are just dependent of just speed as there primary ability. Not snide at the Electra feat as its impressive but pretending Batman doesn’t have feats to match is biased on your part and shows you don’t know much on Batman.

Does he have feats to match it?
If you show me Batman blocking automatic gunfire and I ignore it that's bias.. until then.. I'm skeptical in light of evidence.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And you are wrong, as you did say Wonder Woman level as seen below.

LOL

Now you’ll back peddle on that.

Ummm and? I just said that blocking machine gun fire was one of the feats that makes Wonder Woman impressive...
So what's wrong with labeling blocking machine gun fire as WW type of feat?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Oh feats matter. Just not the way you are intending them too. No we’ve seen Batman tag speedsters, to Slade, and meta humans that are considered to have somewhat mild superhuman speed. Maybe you just need to quit pretending otherwise.

The way I'm intending them to? You mean free of PIS or CIS and fair for both sides of the debate?

"There's a trick to tagging speedsters"
It's not as impressive. Even Night-thrasher's done it.

Slade's superhuman stats make up for his lower level combat technique.
And as you said mild degree... Spiderman does to, but catching even two bullets is a major feat for him. Blocking machine gun fire? Yeah non-existant.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Again your seeing what you want too see. There was a sneak attack before Cap knew who it was. TM attempted and Cap barely dodged it. Then as Cap was in shock and realized who it was. TM unloaded on with his explosions using everything in his arsenal against a Cap who is not at 100 percent. As again I noticed you did not even mention at all geeeeeeeeeeee…….I wonder why.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4170/tmvscapqr4.jpg

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yet the surprised happened during the fight. Cap didn’t try to sneak attack him like Taskmaster did. Cap didn’t go after TM, because he wanted to see if his friend was ok. So again your point is moot.

Point is TM unloaded everything and the kitchen sink at a Cap who was roughed up bad before. The fact that Cap got the better of him at then end and Tasky ran. Speaks volumes for Cap. Much more so then TM. To deny that is denial.

The fact is that Cap got the better of him with a weapon Tasky wasn't even aware he had... It's denial to say that the curbstomp TM laid down on Steve that entire fight was anything BUT impressive. Even with weapons.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
That one I won’t deny is impressive but not defining as neither Cap nor Ironman was out. Down yes but not out as in helpless or unconscious no. Outside of this TM doesn’t really look too great though against the likes of DD, Electra, Mr.X., Deadpool, Moonknight.

So eh…..🙂

Originally posted by Daredevil1
The fact that you left out details on the fight of Electra vs Logan declaring Electra the victory shows you can’t be trusted on these details.

The fact you left out details on the fight with Cap vs Taskmaster. Like a lie on a attempted sneak attack that did occur. And how Cap was not 100 % shows that above is dubious at best.

You mean the fact that you misunderstood or straight up ignored that Elektra beat Wolverine in a fight prior to EOTS which is what I was reffering to and or the fact that TM didn't jump Cap as you said so it hardly stands as an excuse for Cap's performance shows that you're just grasping at straws to discredit both TM and Elektra so your argument holds more validity.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
No but we saw what he easily did too Electra, Logan(twice) and his feats. Not really comparable at all.

Exactly his feats though low in number are impressive.. But when you have other characters with impressive feats and short records....

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah she’s used PPoints to stop Wolverine he was hurt and being held down. Not a very good point and know were the level of PPoints that DD has used. If you believe she does possess such level, then the burden of proof is on you.

Again I believe that her fighting level is attributed to her through her fights (free of CIS) her performance is better than DD's in multiple cases. It leads me to believe she's equivolent if not superior. As J-rod argued, she hasn't tried.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Agree just like blocking lots of bullets isn’t in comparison to the elites feats. Karnak got drop by Cap via sneak attack. Please quit leaving out information on how fights go.
BP actually did defeat Karnak. Finally you got something right..

Fair enough to the Karnak fight.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Agree this is why Millar is a idiot for having Logan even state what chances does he have since Gorgon put down Electra. Logan has more advantages then either Electra or Daredevil for that matter. And I like Daredevil more.

Hell I'd expect that as a legimate shadow of doubt if DD got one shotted next to Wolverine.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
C’mon do you even know Bats. He has feats that are comparable to some of the ones you’ve mentioned. Shang hurt Thing. Shang hurt him barely for him to get out of Things grip. It’s impressive since its Thing, but Bats has similar powerful striking feats like hurting Aquaman, redirecting Captain Marvel, hurting M-body of Darkseid. Bruce has shown he could put his fingers through bricks and kicks through a tree. And that’s just the tip of the ice berg on his feats.

I suppose you're right about hurting bricks. In hindsight most respectable street levels can.
Still I feel that Shang Chi's ability to manipulate his chi is quite advanced compared to Batman.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Plus lets face it Shang or Bruce hurting those type of guys are high end feats. The better feats are Batman vs his street level group and Shang vs his street level group. To see were they stand with one another.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And I definitely don’t think Batman wins “easily” against Electra I just think he’ll take the majority and it won’t be easy.

I really don't see how Elektra beat Logan. Stabbing him really does nothing. And it doesn't seems like Wolverine was trying too hard to fight back. Batman can't afford to get stabbed, It will be much harder for her to land blows like that. Not because he's faster than Logan, but because he will be more on the defensive. Fighting skills will go to Batman, his Theatrical style and unpredictability will be like nothing she has ever encountered before. Not only is he a master ninja, like herself, he's even better. Batman has infiltrated some of the most highly guarded, top secreted, US Government facilities in the world. And physically, he is superior. Batman without a doubt, 8/10.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
batman has no powers how can he resist telepath ?

Because of disgusting writing, which happens a lot of Batman (I remember JL cartoon when he caught Kalibak hand and threw him about five meters. It was painfully to watch that. But there are even much worse writing in the comics, it's really painfully).
Otherwise he can't resist telepathy. Batman is the best written in the movie (BB). In the movie, where writers can't afford such writing, because the movie would be a joke then. That is the Batman with proper writing.

I am really surprised when someone writes Batman in curb stomp or 10/10. No way.
Elektra should take this and not because of skills, but also because of her other abilities Batman can't match. In fair h2h combat she should take it every time.