Leon Kennedy(RE4) vs Chris Redfield(RE5)

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Chris was capable of reacting to Wesker's attacks, surviving hits from him, and knocking him on his ass with a punch.

Really, my problem is this: You made the argument that Chris > Leon by virtue of Wesker > anything Leon has fought. You did not support this (mostly because it's not supportable). Chris' victory over Wesker was not absolute domination. It was extremely plot-device ridden, and the amount of times Wesker didn't kill Chris and Sheva when he had the chance blows my mind. If anything, the fight before Wesker's injected with the antivirus is the most telling - Wesker utterly beats down both without any effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tCkLAb5nS4

Really, there's no contest. Wesker is not a good bar for Chris because he's well outside of Chris' class. That's like saying Jill beats Claire because Jill killed Nemesis, ignoring the fact that Nemesis routinely beat Jill's ass.

Physically, Chris is superior to Leon, except in agility. The only question is maybe skill, but think about this. In 1998, Leon was a rookie cop. Chris was part of STARS. And they only got better from there.

Chris is physically bigger. However, Leon has incredible wiry strength. His hold on Angela in the end of Degeneration required an insane amount of physical body strength. Leon's also demonstrated considerably better flexibility, speed, and on-the-spot thinking. The idea of skill correlating to years of experience in given units is misleading; as a rookie cop, Leon went through more shit than Chris did at the mansion. Leon's also a highly trained operative, and his handling of the G-type in the movie and the Las Plagas outbreak in Spain was more intense and physically and mentally demanding by comparison.

The one thing I give Chris is that he has a better haircut.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Really, my problem is this: You made the argument that Chris > Leon by virtue of Wesker > anything Leon has fought. You did not support this (mostly because it's not supportable). Chris' victory over Wesker was not absolute domination. It was extremely plot-device ridden, and the amount of times Wesker didn't kill Chris and Sheva when he had the chance blows my mind. If anything, the fight before Wesker's injected with the antivirus is the most telling - Wesker utterly beats down both without any effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tCkLAb5nS4

Really, there's no contest. Wesker is not a good bar for Chris because he's well outside of Chris' class. That's like saying Jill beats Claire because Jill killed Nemesis, ignoring the fact that Nemesis routinely beat Jill's ass.

Chris is physically bigger. However, Leon has incredible wiry strength. His hold on Angela in the end of Degeneration required an insane amount of physical body strength. Leon's also demonstrated considerably better flexibility, speed, and on-the-spot thinking. The idea of skill correlating to years of experience in given units is misleading; as a rookie cop, Leon went through more shit than Chris did at the mansion. Leon's also a highly trained operative, and his handling of the G-type in the movie and the Las Plagas outbreak in Spain was more intense and physically and mentally demanding by comparison.

The one thing I give Chris is that he has a better haircut.

It does not matter if Wesker "toyed" with them, or that Chris had support, physically, he was still capable of surviving hits from Wesker, the same hits that can punch through steel, he can react to him, him being faster then bullets, and he can floor Wesker with a punch.

Well, no, Jill beats Claire because while both are relatively physically the same, though one would expect Jill to be superior, due to her professional background, but because Jill has far superior training. The Wesker comparison is because Chris fighting with Wesker and being capable of doing what he does puts him a league above Leon physically.

Does not compare to Chris moving a 10 ton boulder, or pushing a cart full of steel girders.

Flexibility I will give him, Chris reacting to Wesker and his pistol is superior to anything Leon's done though.

All Leon did was run away in RE2, Chris actually fought his way through the mansion to complete his objectives, and, while psychologically, RE4 was a more harrowing experience then RE5, Chris went through worse things in RE5.

Naw, Leon's haircut is the stuff of legends.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
It does not matter if Wesker "toyed" with them, or that Chris had support, physically, he was still capable of surviving hits from Wesker, the same hits that can punch through steel, he can react to him, him being faster then bullets, and he can floor Wesker with a punch.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Because PIS doesn't exist in video games? Come on, man.

Chris is consistently displayed as super human, PIS can only be screamed so many times.

How many superhuman feats can you provide for Chris that weren't performed during gameplay segments?

The same amount that Sora's done.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
How many superhuman feats can you provide for Chris that weren't performed during gameplay segments?

^ This. Any time Wesker punched Chris, Chris was pretty much down on the ground, looking for his brains. In-game battles don't count; that's game mechanics.

I don't see what you're arguing here. Hell, if you've actually seen Degenerations, you might realize the extent to which Leon is the superior combatant. Chris' RE 5 showings simply don't compare.

Also, how the hell did you come about "ten tons" as a weight for that boulder? Are you just making up stuff now? And your other points... Pull up Netflix, watch Degeneration. Then go to RE 5 and watch the Wesker fight scenes. Tell me with conviction that Leon is slower, dumber, and weaker than Chris.

I agree with blaxican, Chris is no superhuman, he is just a very strong dude, and he just pushed the boulder. and LOL gameplay feats, Sheva is a skinny ass woman and also can knock out wesker with kicks.

Resident Archives II also stats the only fight against Wesker is in the Hangar area, Jill wesker vs sheva chris is PURE GAMEPLAY

Edit: Is just me or Sheva has better showings fighting wesker than chris going by the last part of RE5?

Chris should better start doing his mission alone, seriously after RE4 i dont think leon needs this helena *****.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
^ This. Any time Wesker punched Chris, Chris was pretty much down on the ground, looking for his brains. In-game battles don't count; that's game mechanics.

I don't see what you're arguing here. Hell, if you've actually seen Degenerations, you might realize the extent to which Leon is the superior combatant. Chris' RE 5 showings simply don't compare.

Also, how the hell did you come about "ten tons" as a weight for that boulder? Are you just making up stuff now? And your other points... Pull up Netflix, watch Degeneration. Then go to RE 5 and watch the Wesker fight scenes. Tell me with conviction that Leon is slower, dumber, and weaker than Chris.

They're primarily through game-reactions, which people use aplenty for Sora and Kratos...so, no.

No.

Because that boulder weighs about 10 tons. And no.

I got ScreamPaste to calculate the weight of the boulder a while back and it was about ten tons.

He also crushes steel helmets by stomping on them.

Chris and Leon are both blatantly superhuman, honestly. Chris just has the edge in physical strength.

Leon has some insane durability and/or damage soak. I remember him getting hit by the G-Virus monster at the end of Degeneration, fly a shitload of meters, slam into something and getting back on his feet like nothing happened.

So.... a forum member I'm not familiar with can vouch for the boulder claim of it was ten tons? Sounds legit.

Also, love how you're running with game mechanics as proof of "superhuman" strength, even though RE has never given any inclination that Chris has superhuman strength. In fact, his battles with Wesker pretty much conclusively prove he's just a buff human being.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Also, love how you're running with game mechanics

It does not mean what you seem to think it means.

Yes it does.

Furthermore, I have long been a proponent of the school of thought that says that Sora,s qte feats aren't canon.

That's because you're an idiot though.

Only in Florida is "idiot" a synonym for "completely right as always".

Why are we even bringing Degeneration Leon in here? I thought this was RE5 Chris vs RE4 Leon... *looks at thread title*

If the Leon side is just bringing in Degeneration feats because they can't prove he can beat Chris with his RE4 feats alone, then I take that as a concession. 313 At least, for this thread.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Chris is consistently displayed as super human, PIS can only be screamed so many times.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Why are we even bringing Degeneration Leon in here? I thought this was RE5 Chris vs RE4 Leon... *looks at thread title*

If the Leon side is just bringing in Degeneration feats because they can't prove he can beat Chris with his RE4 feats alone, then I take that as a concession. 313 At least, for this thread.

Also this, though Leon has displayed the same at times.

Degeneration takes place less than a year after RE 4, and Leon's physical prowess is about the same. RE 4 has some amazing showings which I'm surprised no one else has brought up including:

1. The knife fight with Krauser, who is as big as Redfield. Close quarters melee.

2. Leon's brief close tangle with Ada was an impressive recovery. Only her explosive sunglasses allowed her the opportunity to escape.

3. Leon nails Salazar's hand from a good 50+ feet away with a knife throw at the drop of a hat. Afterwards, he avoids impalement by clever means of a grappling hook. Again, huge emphasis on lightning quick reflexes here.

4. Every baddie that Leon fights in RE 4 is immense and powerful. From the lake monster to Bitorez Mendez, the Right Hand, Salazar and finally Saddler. To put things in perspective, Leon kills an El Gigante on foot in a small area, while Sheva and Chris both use mounted weapons to combat just one.

This isn't saying Chris is drastically worse. He's not. But Leon's showings indicate at least some superiority. I happen to think Leon's just smarter too.

Regardless of when Degeneration took place, this thread topic seems to be strictly RE4 Leon as far as feats go. If we were to include Degen though then I guess he would arguably have the most advantage, not that it would exactly be a fair comparison since Chris hasn't been shown kicking ass in any of the CGI films as yet.

I'm surprised those RE4 feats of Leon's haven't been brought up too then if that's the case, even though Ada saved him during his first encounter with Krauser and some other occasions.

But Chris's accuracy and reaction feats against majinis and such (some instances in which he saved Sheva in the process) should be brought up as well, like when he shot down a majini on a turret while in a fast moving boat from far away with just a regular pistol, etc. That and being an ex-marksman shows Chris is better than Leon with guns, while Leon's better with knives. As for fighting Wesker, the only thing that's PIS at this point as far as I'm concerned is them conveniently having the serum to overdose and weaken him with after chasing off Excella earlier. Them countering Wesker's moves and the hits they landed on him (like when Chris shot Wesker before getting double kicked) in the plane cutscene was all skill on their part, not gameplay mechanics or whatever it's being brushed off as.

Wesker was also drugged at that point. ...and he had also been shot in the face with a rocket, five minutes prior.

This is what it looks like when Chris and Sheva fight a full strength Wesker:

YouTube video

I'm really curious to see what horrible argument is going to be made in an attempt to pretend that scene never happened. Wesker was handling both of them effortlessly. Simultaneously.