Frank Castle, Nick Fury & Kraven the Hunter vs The Flash(Wally)

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

JLA has shown on numerous ocassions it isnt, its there interpretation and its just as valid as his solo issues.

Did you miss the part where the writer is obviously toning down the Flash and ignoring his abilities to suit the plot?

If not we wouldn't be having this conversation. They are valid, if you consider using issues were he is obviously being downplayed.

In these forums, we use characters at their optimum and don't use a writer's influence.

Hence, this doesn't really matter. We are taking into account all of his abilities and not only the abilities the writer picks and chooses to fit his plot.

You, I, and everyone else knows how badly a character gets toned down in team books. Especially one such as Flash.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Did you miss the part where the writer is obviously toning down the Flash and ignoring his abilities to suit the plot?

If not we wouldn't be having this conversation. They are valid, if you consider using issues were he is obviously being downplayed.

In these forums, we use characters at their optimum and don't use a writer's influence.

Hence, this doesn't really matter. We are taking into account all of his abilities and not only the abilities the writer picks and chooses to fit his plot.

You, I, and everyone else knows how badly a character gets toned down in team books. Especially one such as Flash.

and im telling you again for the 100th time thats their interpretation of Flashs skills. As I stated earlier on it could damn well be argued that under JLA he doesnt view the world the same as he does in his solo issues when hes not running at top speed.

Hell even Flash 1M got punked. Hell Punisher got his arse kicked by DD in Marvel Knights I could damn well argue that he jobbed and its PIS but the fact of the matter is different writers think characters are capable of different things.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and im telling you again for the 100th time thats their interpretation of Flashs skills. As I stated earlier on it could damn well be argued that under JLA he doesnt view the world the same as he does in his solo issues when hes not running at top speed.

Hell even Flash 1M got punked. Hell Punisher got his arse kicked by DD in Marvel Knights I could damn well argue that he jobbed and its PIS but the fact of the matter is different writers think characters are capable of different things.

Flash 1 million is just a future Flash. Wally West can do things that Flash can't.

It has been shown in his own books, on different occasions, by different writers, that Flash views the world in that way all the time unless he turns it off consciously.

The fact that writers in Justice League books ignore it and tone him down is no surprise. It happens to a lot of characters unless you're Superman or Batman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Flash 1 million is just a future Flash. Wally West can do things that Flash can't.

Every single member of JLA 1M was superior to the 21st century counteparts, its unlikley that Flash 1m is inferior.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

It has been shown in his own books, on different occasions, by different writers, that Flash views the world in that way all the time unless he turns it off consciously.

The fact that writers in Justice League books ignore it and tone him down is no surprise. It happens to a lot of characters unless you're Superman or Batman.

Again eventhough Punsiher doesnt have powers when he under performs in certain stories I could argue he jobbed or its PIS as well or I could accept that the writers interpretation of his capabilities varies.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Every single member of JLA 1M was superior to the 21st century counteparts, its unlikley that Flash 1m is inferior.

Dude, Wally West has encountered the Flash 1million before, and has shown to be his clear superior as I recall.

Wally West > Johny Fox

It might be unlikely to you, but that's the case. Wally West can do what he can't, and is superior from what I recall.

The Justice League Alpha members might all be superior to their Justice League of America members, but that's not the case with the Flash.

Wally West is the fastest man who ever lived for a reason.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again eventhough Punsiher doesnt have powers when he under performs in certain stories I could argue he jobbed or its PIS as well or I could accept that the writers interpretation of his capabilities varies.

facepalm

In the case of the Flash, the writer is obviously toning him down.

How are you even debating this with a straight face?

It's obvious that Wally is under performing in the Justice League books compared to his solo series. It has more to do with writers ignoring his power set for the sake of plot, more than anything.

That's a faulty analogy.

Well Flash 1m must be the exception but he got punked just the same as his current counterpart has.

Take it or leave it

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Again eventhough Punsiher doesnt have powers when he under performs in certain stories I could argue he jobbed or its PIS as well or I could accept that the writers interpretation of his capabilities varies.

All you keep telling me is that you THINK that Flash's solo apearances SHOULD take priority because...because its your opinion that all.

I could also make the argument that Pun was toned down in Pun vs DD in the fact that Pun was onwed by DD twice with prep. The same principle applies.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well Flash 1m must be the exception but he got punked just the same as his current counterpart has.

Wally West, is already the God of Speed. If he had a counterpart in Justice League Alpha, who was more powerful than him, as Kal Kent is to that times Superman etc., that character would be a God.

It's inconceivable to make someone that fast. That's how powerful Wally West is.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Take it or leave it

Take what?

You're faulty analogy?

I rather leave it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
All you keep telling me is that you THINK that Flash's solo apearances SHOULD take priority because...because its your opinion that all.

Christ. Can anyone else explain it to this guy?

His solo appearance should take priority as it is more consistent, and his power levels don't jump up and down every issue to fit the plot as it does sometimes in the Justice League books.

Everyone else, except you it seems realize that a character is underwritten in a team book most of the time.

You quoted by yourself by the way.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wally West, is already the God of Speed. If he had a counterpart in Justice League Alpha, who was more powerful than him, as Kal Kent is to that times Superman etc., that character would be a God.

It's inconceivable to make someone that fast. That's how powerful Wally West is.

and both those Flashes have been punked.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Take what?

You're faulty analogy?

I rather leave it.

Its not a faulty analogy, you just cant take it that your opinion is just that...an opinion. When you come out with stuff like you quoted yourself when you cant even understand that was my intention, maybe you have comprehension problems.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Christ. Can anyone else explain it to this guy?

His solo appearance should take priority as it is more consistent, and his power levels don't jump up and down every issue to fit the plot as it does sometimes in the Justice League books.

LOL it damn well could be argued that in his solo books hes powerd up to fit with the plot as well, but theres still no reason why his solo books should take priority. We dont just take high showings we look at all the showings.

JLA is consistent as well his feats are just lower.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Everyone else, except you it seems realize that a character is underwritten in a team book most of the time.

and in Pun vs DD Pun was underwritten because he lost to DD twice with prep. Under certain writers Pun would decimate DD with prep and in others he doesnt. Which one takes precedence? They are legitimate interpretations of his capabilities but in general he would beat DD with prep ( because there are more showings to prove it). It could also damn well be argued he was written down to fit with the plot as well.

The same principle applies stop pretending like it doesnt just because you want me to agree with you.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and both those Flashes have been punked.

So have a lot of characters when they shouldn't have been.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its not a faulty analogy, you just cant take it that your opinion is just that...an opinion. When you come out with stuff like you quoted yourself when you cant even understand that was my intention, maybe you have comprehension problems.

Yes it is. I responded to you're post as you were referring to the analogy with the Punisher. I understand you're intention. I just thought you quoted it my mistake.

*Shrugs*

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL it damn well could be argued that in his solo books hes powerd up to fit with the plot as well, but theres still no reason why his solo books should take priority. We dont just take high showings we look at all the showings.

JLA is consistent as well his feats are just lower.

We do look at all his showings but when we compare them it's obvious when in one showing he is obviously powered down and his powers are ignored.

Like I said before. According to these boards rules, we use all of their abilities. We don't pick in choose which powers not to use.

Meaning we use all of his powers unlike some comics where they are ignored.

So either way this conversation doesn't really matter and I'm done with it.

According to the rules, we use all their powers, including his perception, and all of his other capabilities, and don't ignore some just because writers ignore them to fit a plot from time to time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and in Pun vs DD Pun was underwritten because he lost to DD twice with prep. Under certain writers Pun would decimate DD with prep and in others he doesnt. Which one takes precedence? They are legitimate interpretations of his capabilities but in general he would beat DD with prep ( because there are more showings to prove it). It could also damn well be argued he was written down to fit with the plot as well.

The same principle applies stop pretending like it doesnt just because you want me to agree with you.

If Frank Castle was obviously underwritten in the comic, to support the plot, then we take the showings and compare it to the majority of his showings and if you come to the conclusion that he was being underwritten, then you can call it PIS or just say he was underwritten. Either way on these boards, we use them at their top capabilities so it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really. You said they were more consistent and they job less. In JLA they are consistently lower and as stated before in JLA hes wriiten to be less powerful thats the writers intpretation of his capabilities. So really you're just stating that JLA is jobbing and stating that you're opinion of what Flash is capable of takes precedent, its purely subjective.

You missed the point hes not as good as Batman not even nearly if hes gets totally owned by Shiva.

Thats not what you said last time. Last time you said he couldnt have possibly known Flash was going to turn up....wow. Either way it doesnt matter because hes not as good as those 3 combined at prep.

Well for starters Punisher on his own has stalemated an opponet whos capable of beating DS in h2h. Hes not beating Punisher, Kraven and Nick at the sametime.

*sigh* Think im wasting my time trying to talk about Punishers prep skills but i'll try again both Dr Doom and Captain America have stated how resourecful the Punisher is. If props from two of marvels top strategist doesnt mean anything I dont know what does. Punisher would give DS a hard time with prep add Nick Fury and Kraven and its all over.

JLA has shown on numerous ocassions it isnt, its there interpretation and its just as valid as his solo issues.

good god. you're like cartman. you just hear exactly what you want to hear.

Nick Fury wins

That is all, now proceed back to your little topic.

Juggernaut loses.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Juggernaut loses.

Originally posted by Newjak
Kris Blaze loses uhuh

Try your best Newjackshit ahah

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Try your best Newjackshit ahah

With 12 hours these guys have the time to plain a strategy with their weapons. They could set up fishing line for a clothesline, mines or just traps all over the city.

Originally posted by Newjak
If you're gonna add shit unto the end of my name at least spell it right biscuits

You bastard.....

Originally posted by golem370
Alright here is the premise for the fight: it takes place in New York and the team mission is to neutralize Flash before he can get to them. Since there's no way they can not defeat him because of his speed they get to prepare for his attack. They can set traps all over the city but bombs, gun traps, falling and captureing traps. Now the bombs can't be too big somewhere between 5 and 60 pounds of explosives just enough to kill him or stop him. Now they have to stay immobile so to give them a better chance of winning but if they get caught they lose. The team gets 12 hours to set as many traps as they can.

Punisher- http://www.marvel.com/universe/Punisher

Nick Fury- http://www.marvel.com/universe/Fury%2C_Nick

&

Kraven- http://www.marvel.com/universe/Kraven

Flash could end it in 5 seconds literally if he goes in halfassed . 01.seconds if he is serious.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Punisher has actually shot a speedster before without prep.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So have a lot of characters when they shouldn't have been.

Yes it is. I responded to you're post as you were referring to the analogy with the Punisher. I understand you're intention. I just thought you quoted it my mistake.

*Shrugs*

We do look at all his showings but when we compare them it's obvious when in one showing he is obviously powered down and his powers are ignored.

Like I said before. According to these boards rules, we use all of their abilities. We don't pick in choose which powers not to use.

Meaning we use all of his powers unlike some comics where they are ignored.

So either way this conversation doesn't really matter and I'm done with it.

According to the rules, we use all their powers, including his perception, and all of his other capabilities, and don't ignore some just because writers ignore them to fit a plot from time to time.

If Frank Castle was obviously underwritten in the comic, to support the plot, then we take the showings and compare it to the majority of his showings and if you come to the conclusion that he was being underwritten, then you can call it PIS or just say he was underwritten. Either way on these boards, we use them at their top capabilities so it doesn't matter.

To cut a long story short. Im not picking and choosing anything. Im not ignoring the fact that he sees the world like DVD, im just pointing out he doesnt always do that. You are just looking at the high end feats and choosing to ignore the lower ones.

Originally posted by Raoul
good god. you're like cartman. you just hear exactly what you want to hear.

Look stop trying to twist things around like im the one with a problem here. I cant remembr exactly what you said about DS and the JLA but you didnt think that DS beating Flash PIS, you self serving hypocritical so and so. At least other posters are consistent.

Cant be arsed to get into the rest but apparently I need to prove that Nick, Punisher and Kraven are better at prep than DS.