Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To cut a long story short. Im not picking and choosing anything. Im not ignoring the fact that he sees the world like DVD, im just pointing out he doesnt always do that. You are just looking at the high end feats and choosing to ignore the lower ones.
But that's the problem. He has shown that he always views the world that way. Every moment unless he consciously chooses to turn it off.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hence why I said that the writers ignored his abilities and toned him down for the sake of plot.
That can work both ways. I could argue that a characters could be amped for the sake of the plot, why would I only take the high showings?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wally has shown on different occasions, it's always on by different writers, during different periods of time etc.
Obvoulsy he views the world slower in JLA and im pretty sure he still has those capabilties even in JLA but certain writers think that he can still get punked if he least expects it.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That can work both ways. I could argue that a characters could be amped for the sake of the plot, why would I only take the high showings?Obvoulsy he views the world slower in JLA and im pretty sure he still has those capabilties even in JLA but certain writers think that he can still get punked if he least expects it.
So you're going to ignore the fact that he has had this ability from decades ago, and it has been shown consistently in his own comics to an extent yet when it comes to the Justice League comics, it's obvious writers tone him down and ignore some of his abilities to fit the plot?
What is wrong with you?
I think at this point you're debating for no other reason than just debating it self.
He still has the ability, writers just ignore it.
Do you not know that in team books strong characters get toned down all the time?
How can you be debating something that is so obvious?
I will say this for the last time and I am done with this argument as you just don't get it.
According to these boards rules, we use characters and all of their give abilities. We don't pick and choose like the writers do.
So it's really rather pointless, and this is just a waste of my time.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So you're going to ignore the fact that he has had this ability from decades ago,
Again for the 100th time im not ignoring it im stating that he shown differently in different comics.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
and it has been shown consistently in his own comics to an extent yet when it comes to the Justice League comics, it's obvious writers tone him down and ignore some of his abilities to fit the plot?What is wrong with you?
1. Hes been consistently shown to be weaker.
2. I also stated that characters can be amped for the sake of a plot. Please now explain to me why we should take amped examples for the sake of the plot and ignore the weaker examples.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He still has the ability, writers just ignore it.
Thats one way of looking at it. Wolverine has enhanced hearing but he gets jumped all the time. As far as im concerned its tough luck that heis enhanced hearing gets overlooked because its been shown 100s of times he can get jumped and sneaked up on when distracted.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you not know that in team books strong characters get toned down all the time?How can you be debating something that is so obvious?
In solo books they get amped for the sake of the plot why do we only go for the solo books?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I will say this for the last time and I am done with this argument as you just don't get it.
I dont agree with you.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
According to these boards rules, we use characters and all of their give abilities. We don't pick and choose like the writers do.So it's really rather pointless, and this is just a waste of my time.
You are contradicting yourself. If you are choosing to ignore JLA then you are obvoulsy ignoring that representation of his abilities.
Originally posted by Juk3n
Wow, 4 pages of debate, that must mean people are actually arguing a full capacity Wally West will be incapable of dodging guns, bombs, trap mechanisms and energy projectiles. I guess running around the world in a panel isn't the feat it used to be.meh!
My point is that despite his powerset hes been shown to be vulnerable to traps.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again for the 100th time im not ignoring it im stating that he shown differently in different comics.
His shown differently in team comics as the rest of the characters are for the sake of plot.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. Hes been consistently shown to be weaker.
2. I also stated that characters can be amped for the sake of a plot. Please now explain to me why we should take amped examples for the sake of the plot and ignore the weaker examples.
1) In team comics, to fit the plot as everyone else which is obvious as he gets toned down. He doesn't run as fast, doesn't hit as hard, and basically is toned down like everyone else is. This happens in Marvel too, like Thor gets toned down in Avengers. Unless you're name is Superman it usually happens.
2) We aren't ignoring any weaker examples. We are ignoring examples where the writer is obviously ignoring a part of his core power set to fit the plot.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats one way of looking at it. Wolverine has enhanced hearing but he gets jumped all the time. As far as im concerned its tough luck that heis enhanced hearing gets overlooked because its been shown 100s of times he can get jumped and sneaked up on when distracted.
Faulty comparison.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
In solo books they get amped for the sake of the plot why do we only go for the solo books?
It's because in the solo books all of his abilities are taken into account. Either way like I said it doesn't matter, because we follow the board rules, and the board rules say we use, all of their abilities, which means all of the abilities they have shown.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont agree with you.
That's because you are just to stubborn to admit that the obvious.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You are contradicting yourself. If you are choosing to ignore JLA then you are obvoulsy ignoring that representation of his abilities.
facepalm
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Read the rules.
We use all of their abilities making this conversation pointless.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His shown differently in team comics as the rest of the characters are for the sake of plot.
You know something...im not actually denying that, im telling you thats its tough luck, if hes been shown to be like that.
In some cases I suspect some writers really see the Flash that way. He isnt always toned down in JLA and has uber showings as well.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1) In team comics, to fit the plot as everyone else which is obvious as he gets toned down. He doesn't run as fast, doesn't hit as hard, and basically is toned down like everyone else is. This happens in Marvel too, like Thor gets toned down in Avengers. Unless you're name is Superman it usually happens.
Tough luck really its still canon, its still happened consistently.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
2) We aren't ignoring any weaker examples. We are ignoring examples where the writer is obviously ignoring a part of his core power set to fit the plot.
Tough luck really its still canon, its still happened consistently.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Faulty comparison.
Of course it is, its an example of a character whos powerset is being ignored.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's because in the solo books all of his abilities are taken into account. Either way like I said it doesn't matter, because we follow the board rules, and the board rules say we use, all of their abilities, which means all of the abilities they have shown.
Well in JLA if they dont want to do that and even if its for the sake of the plot, then its tough luck. I hate the fact that Champion jobs but unfortunately thats the way hes been written and has been done for the sake of the plot.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
facepalm[B] Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.Read the rules.
We use all of their abilities making this conversation pointless. [/B]
The problem is CIS is also part of the forum rules and that contradicts that rule and its part of Flashes character not to go at full power.
*Sigh*
I give up after this post because at this point I believe this isn't going anywhere at all.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You know something...im not actually denying that, im telling you thats its tough luck, if hes been shown to be like that.In some cases I suspect some writers really see the Flash that way. He isnt always toned down in JLA and has uber showings as well.
If you aren't denying it, then why do you keep disputing the fact it over and over again?
At this point I think you're arguing for no other reason just to argue.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Tough luck really its still canon, its still happened consistently.
That's an interesting way to dodge my statement.
It may be cannon, but it doesn't really matter. According to these boards, we use all of his powers as shown, which includes his perception always being on, so this just a waste of my time.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Tough luck really its still canon, its still happened consistently.
Nice way to dodge my point.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Of course it is, its an example of a character whos powerset is being ignored.
facepalm
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well in JLA if they dont want to do that and even if its for the sake of the plot, then its tough luck. I hate the fact that Champion jobs but unfortunately thats the way hes been written and has been done for the sake of the plot.
So we use Champion at his optimum levels, not when his clearly jobbing.
Flash gets toned down and some of his powers are ignored for the sake of plot in the Justice League of America comics which is obvious to everyone but yourself it seems.
Even in those comics, his perception has to be on, for his power set to work, and he has showings when it shows that his perception is clearly in play.
What don't you get?
When the need the power set, they use it and allow Wally to do amazing things, but when they don't, they don't use it.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The problem is CIS is also part of the forum rules and that contradicts that rule and its part of Flashes character not to go at full power.
Take it up with the mods.
Like you said, CIS is on, meaning we take into account the character's abilities and personality, and Wally has shown on different occasions on panel that he has this ability on, and uses it. Meaning in the vs. boards we use him as having this ability constantly on, as he has consistently shown that has it on.
While all the time he does job in the team comics, it never shows him turning it off. It's just ignore altogether.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Look stop trying to twist things around like im the one with a problem here. I cant remembr exactly what you said about DS and the JLA but you didnt think that DS beating Flash PIS, you self serving hypocritical so and so. At least other posters are consistent.Cant be arsed to get into the rest but apparently I need to prove that Nick, Punisher and Kraven are better at prep than DS.
you are the one with the problem. you tell blatant lies in an attempt to justify and defend weak arguments.
you're the hypocrite.
Originally posted by Raoul
you are the one with the problem. you tell blatant lies in an attempt to justify and defend weak arguments.
What did I lie about? Hell it was discussed three months ago, if I got what you said wrong thats just memory.
Originally posted by Raoul
you're the hypocrite.
Please get over yourself. Dont post shit like this....
Originally posted by Raoul
ok...[b]Deathstroke Vs the JLA:
[/B]
and then talk about how he jobs in the JLA, it could damn well be argued that the feat you posted is jobbing as well. For once just admit you dont know what you're talking about.
Originally posted by golem370
Lets me ask this would the Flash change his way of fighting if he knows he is not fighting powerful metahumans and that one is only moderately superhuman.
He could well do, which is why I stated earlier on in this debate CIS is applicable. Some examples of him being punked may not be due to ignoring of powersets but him applying it accordingly to a situation.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What I want to know, is how that issue got published?I mean "Identity Crisis" was well written but that fight was just stupid. What the hell do editors get payed for?
I at least respect the fact that you're consistent. 👆 I'll respond to your post later and im going to have to agree to an extent I think you may be right.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I at least respect the fact that you're consistent. 👆 I'll respond to your post later and im going to have to agree to an extent I think you may be right.
If you aren't consistent, you probably don't know what you're talking about or you're probably trying to dig yourself out of a hole. I found this to be the most common case in my experience.
Cool. Take you're time. I'm at work at the moment so I can't respond to any long posts, because I have to frequently close the browser from time to time. Don't want to get caught. 😛
👆
I knew you would eventually. 💃
Seriously though, I understand what you're trying to say, and you do make a good argument getting you're point across, but I unfortunately don't agree. If all else fails, we can at least agree to disagree.
Fortunately, it seems I've convinced you. 😈
