Gladiator vs WW Hulk (slugfest)

Originally posted by darthgoober
How do you figure he's out of Spidey's league based on their history and common foes though? Spidey's taken on guys like Hulk, Juggernaught, Thor, Absorbing Man, Surfer, and I don't even know who all else, so I really doubt that Firelord's history is all that much more impressive than Peter's.

I know in a comic he has beaten him, but it's an exception to the rule. Spiderman usually takes on venom like characters and doesn't have throwdowns with the Hulk like they are equals or something.

Spiderman also took on Omega if you want to ignore the context of how he actually took him on.

Originally posted by leonidas
actually, it's you that doesn't get it. you are--and continue--to look at it from only one point of view. in this case, gladiator's. what the hell was to have stopped thor from the start of the fight from using mjollnir to absorb gladiator's soul as he did to loki? or from having opened a vortex into another dimension and left him there? the part you keep leaving out at the start of that fight is that thor thought gladiator was a FRIEND (iirc). he didn't want to fight him, but glads attacked him anyway. thor could have used a massive lightning bolt, stunned him, and hit with a blow from mjollnir that could have shattered a planet ala bill vs stardust and killed him. why does thor always ENGAGE opponents instead of using his powers to their fullest? because the writers are stupid?

OF COURSE WRITING IMPACTS THINGS. IT'S A FRIGGIN COMIC. you're speaking like you've unearthed some great and long sought secret. everyone KNOWS that. we debate using feats and past match ups anyway because otherwise it's "you say" "i say".

pointless.

and you still never answered my question: how exactly do you know that glads has NOT been shown at his peak? where's your proof he can go and possess near limitless strength if only someone would write him correctly? oh . . . . . wait. some character probably said that in some COMICBOOK written by some WRITER! too bad that i've decided to deem that book and that writer, and everything his characters said as poor and not worth listening to.

your argument is myopic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Spiderman cannot defeat the Hulk though and isn't in his weight class. He knows it and might appear alongside them from time to time. The point is that he could never ever really compete with Firelord based on his power level and the characters firelord has taken on with pure power.

I never said that Spidey could defeat Hulk, I said that he has fighting him(and taking punches from him if I'm not mistaken) to his credit along with plenty of others to support his being able to beat Firelord.

And since you're basing your opinion on Firelord having more raw power, do you remember how many times Firelord landed a hit against Peter when they fought(I can't remember)? If Firelord never managed to connect or only landed on or two shots, it seems a little unreasonable to throw the fight out on that basis.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know in a comic he has beaten him, but it's an exception to the rule. Spiderman usually takes on venom like characters and doesn't have throwdowns with the Hulk like they are equals or something.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Spiderman also took on Omega if you want to ignore the context of how he actually took him on.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said that Spidey could defeat Hulk, I said that he has fighting him(and taking punches from him if I'm not mistaken) to his credit along with plenty of others to support his being able to beat Firelord.

And since you're basing your opinion on Firelord having more raw power, do you remember how many times Firelord landed a hit against Peter when they fought(I can't remember)? If Firelord never managed to connect or only landed on or two shots, it seems a little unreasonable to throw the fight out on that basis.

So if one characters average "rogue" is well below his opponent in power and gives the character trouble the fight should be throw out?

I haven't ignored any context....

I think we rule it on a fight by fight basis. It's common sense this fight was pure shit while Hulk can definitely take On Gladiator despite a few protests here and there. Glads wasn't dominated either.

Spiderman can't take the damage that Firelord, Hulk, Glads can take etc.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh I agree that it's a combination of factors and direct match-ups should be factored into the discussion, I'm just starting to think(and so decided to point out) that direct match-ups are the least reliable source for evidence. Definitely above the likes of handbooks, but below independent showings by the characters.

In direct match-ups, Thing's a little behind Hulk in the strength department but still able to hang. Independent showings on the other hand suggest that the gap's far more significant. I have no problem with people who use character fights as evidence, but unless one of the characters is MASSIVELY short on appearances I don't think that direct match-ups should in any way be considered definitive either. If anything I think they should be the LAST evidence looked at unless it's literally the ONLY thing one/both of the characters has to go by.

i'm not sure they're the least reliable. i think it depends on whether--based on other portrayals--if they were both depicted well. sometimes that is the case, sometimes not. and some characters--like gladiator--have such a wide range of portrayals it is hard to determine what their norm even is. that makes things a little trickier to figure but attributing things to them that haven't been shown on panel, and using supposition over on panel proof is generally NOT the way to go. 😬

Originally posted by Raoul
yeah. cassandra nova isn't exactly a low showing...

no, but she was physically dominating him if not mistaken

Originally posted by Battlehammer
no, but she was physically dominating him if not mistaken

Nothing really physically superior there.

Originally posted by leonidas
actually, it's you that doesn't get it. you are--and continue--to look at it from only one point of view. in this case, gladiator's. what the hell was to have stopped thor from the start of the fight from using mjollnir to absorb gladiator's soul as he did to loki? or from having opened a vortex into another dimension and left him there? the part you keep leaving out at the start of that fight is that thor thought gladiator was a FRIEND (iirc). he didn't want to fight him, but glads attacked him anyway. thor could have used a massive lightning bolt, stunned him, and hit with a blow from mjollnir that could have shattered a planet ala bill vs stardust and killed him. why does thor always ENGAGE opponents instead of using his powers to their fullest? because the writers are stupid?

OF COURSE WRITING IMPACTS THINGS. IT'S A FRIGGIN COMIC. you're speaking like you've unearthed some great and long sought secret. everyone KNOWS that. we debate using feats and past match ups anyway because otherwise it's "you say" "i say".

pointless.

and you still never answered my question: how exactly do you know that glads has NOT been shown at his peak? where's your proof he can go and possess near limitless strength if only someone would write him correctly? oh . . . . . wait. some character probably said that in some COMICBOOK written by some WRITER! too bad that i've decided to deem that book and that writer, and everything his characters said as poor and not worth listening to.

your argument is myopic.

Originally posted by Enyalus
She grabbed him by the throat after he had already been psychically broken.

Nothing really physically superior there.

The equating of Glads confidence and hulks anger are faulty. Yes the two are based on emotional states but thats where the similarity ends. Marvel has confirmed on panel numerous times that hulks strength CAN and WILL continue to increase infinitely due to the fact that [I[his[/I] anger[/I] CAN and WILL continue to increase given enough time. Some people dont like it?.....tough.

Gladiator on the other hand while his strength is tied to an emotion like hulk has not shown the same positive variability in his powerlevel as hulk has let alone the ability for it to increase infinitely. During battle glads hasnt been shown to get progressivel more confident and hence more powerful unlike the hulk. The times his confidence has atually come into play, it had a negative affeton his powerlevel.

Clearly while the conepts are similar (both are powerlevels tied to emotional states), when put in to practie on panel they have been portrayed differently

Originally posted by Naija boy
The equating of Glads confidence and hulks anger are faulty. Yes the two are based on emotional states but thats where the similarity ends. Marvel has confirmed on panel numerous times that hulks strength CAN and WILL continue to increase infinitely due to the fact that [I[his[/I] anger[/I] CAN and WILL continue to increase given enough time. Some people dont like it?.....tough.

Gladiator on the other hand while his strength is tied to an emotion like hulk has not shown the same positive variability in his powerlevel as hulk has let alone the ability for it to increase infinitely. During battle glads hasnt been shown to get progressivel more confident and hence more powerful unlike the hulk. The times his confidence has atually come into play, it had a negative affeton his powerlevel.

Clearly while the conepts are similar (both are powerlevels tied to emotional states), when put in to practie on panel they have been portrayed differently

It would be a cold day in hell before any Hulk got that strong in any real amount of time. Time that people like Supes, Wondy, MM, Captain Marvel, Surfer, Thor, Thanos and hell, Superboy Prime himself would never give him in a KMC match. While theoretically possible, it simply does not work on a KMC match. Especially because Hulk has never and probably will never, face someone like SBP in marvel. And if one person says Sentry.............

I will unleash the wrath of Dio Brando. durbeware

And he's still too slow for it to matter.

Then again, Glads choked once, he can do it again. Dude's a schmuck. 😛

Originally posted by james2099
So you are saying that given enough time, hulk will get angry enough and strong enough to take on someone like superman prime in a slugfest??

Given enough time? Undoubtedly. How long it will take however is up for debate.

...........superman time would kill hulk easily.....hulk has never gotten to levels that would even threaten superman prime

^And ur point is?

point is he never going to reach a level to beable to take superman prime like you said he could, that wishful thinking.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
point is he never going to reach a level to beable to take superman prime like you said he could, that wishful thinking.

lolwut? A hypothetical situation was brought up in which it was asked that given enough time wouldhe be able to reach supesprimes strentgth level. The answer to that is undeniably YES. It was mentioned nowhere that hed be given this time in a comic or even on KMC for that matter. I further never mentioned that he was going to reach this level on panel just that he would in the hypothetial scenario brought up by another poster.

So ur supposed "point" is invalid and completely off base. 🙂

Originally posted by james2099
Who do you think can launch an attack first?? Thor or Gladiator?? I dont care how strong any character is. If one can launch just a mountain shattering attack at near lightspeed then it matters not what the other can do. Can thor get off a godblast or a soul steal or a lightning attack before gladiator can attack?? Who is faster?? Which on has been shown even by writers to be able to blitz the other?? If we go by comicbook battles, then how can we debate who would win?? There would be no debate in fights like.. gladiator vs cannonball, thor vs superman, hulk vs gladiator, hulk vs superman, spiderman vs firelord.... The writers gave us a winner in most of those fights... Going by the comics that favors the hero or main character will always give the hero the edge. And as far as your question about gladiators strength.... look at his bios then go to his revamped respect thread.

thor has been shown to be able to deflect and reattack one of phoenix's telepathic attacks. he has been shown travelling at superluminal speeds, hence the verification that he is capable of perceiving and reacting to those speeds. what's glads gonna do? vision is absorbed and blasted back and ko's him. physical? thor can still react and parry. a mad thor engaged warlock and ss at the same time! neither of them is particularly slow, and madness increses his strength, not speed. he can CHOOSE to go warrior mad at any point but never does for fear of what he would do. is that poor writing?

anyway, your entire opinion will have been rendered completely moot by the vast majority of kmc the moment you told me to check a friggin bio. 😐

Originally posted by leonidas
thor has been shown to be able to deflect and reattack one of phoenix's telepathic attacks. he has been shown travelling at superluminal speeds, hence the verification that he is capable of perceiving and reacting to those speeds. what's glads gonna do? vision is absorbed and blasted back and ko's him. physical? thor can still react and parry. a mad thor engaged warlock and ss at the same time! neither of them is particularly slow, and madness increses his strength, not speed. he can CHOOSE to go warrior mad at any point but never does for fear of what he would do. is that poor writing?

anyway, your entire opinion will have been rendered completely moot by the vast majority of kmc the moment you told me to check a friggin bio. 😐

Glads after his current ass whooping feat. Hes too fast for Hulk and mixed with planet busting punches.