Originally posted by Mindset
So you're just going to keep on ignoring the context, gotcha. Fortunately I didn't say Matt couldn't give IF a fight, so I don't know why you bring it up like I did, maybe read what I actually wrote.
Originally posted by Mindset🤨
His physical abilities due to chi are related to how good of a fighter he is.
Originally posted by MindsetYup, that's why Hulk, Quicksilver and Venom are ALL better hand to hand fighters than Captain America... 🙄
Your physically attributes are directly related to how good a fighter you are,
Originally posted by MindsetThey are when you enhanced your own physical attributes direcctly because of LEARNED abilities.
they, however, are not related to how knowledgeable of a fighter you are.
Originally posted by MindsetBecause you can be super strong and still fight like shit. Super fast and still fight like shit. They serve to help you in a fight, they don't make you better in skill at fighting.. This should be obvious. 😐
How does your speed, strength, senses, etc. not play a major factor in how good of a fighter you are?
Originally posted by jinzinYea, you are ignoring, you know, by acting like none of that existed so you could say DD was winning on seemingly equal grounds, when that's not the case. Under said context DD was able to momentarily get the better of him, I don't see how that shows Elektra is a better fighter. If you meant that Matt under the conditions of the fight, using weapons, etc. and Danny not using his chi attacks, was pushing Danny to the limit, then ok.
I'm not ignoring anything. You flat out laughed at the notion that DD gave IF all he could handle in a h2h fight which regardless of any other sensibilities he may have had before the fight, was proven without a shadow of a doubt when he went to the extreme risk of exposing himself by using the Iron Fist, yes an extreme given what he was trying to do at that point in time for DD.. Perhaps you'd like to stop ignoring that?🤨
No it isn't...
that's like saying that Elektra's learned telepathy and mind swapping capabilities reflect her fighting ability when it couldn't be any farther from the truth. You've confused overall ability, learned skill, or natural talent for fighting ability which is an entirely seperate distintive category altogether.Yup, that's why Hulk, Quicksilver and Venom are ALL better hand to hand fighters than Captain America... 🙄
They are when you enhanced your own physical attributes direcctly because of LEARNED abilities.
Because you can be super strong and still fight like shit. Super fast and still fight like shit. They serve to help you in a fight, they don't make you better in skill at fighting.. This should be obvious. 😐
Mind swapping has nothing at all to do with physical abilities, that is completely irrelevant. If Elektra lost all her superhuman physical traits would you still say she was just as good of a fighter? Overall ability IS what determines how good of a fighter you are. Fighting ability is a part of it, but not the whole. You can't determine how good a fighter someone is without factoring in their physical abilities as well, it's not possible.
It hardly matters whether you are physically enhanced through practice or magically enhanced, either one will act to improve the fighter.
Skill is one aspect of being a good fighter, it is not the entirety of it.
You don't seem to be able to understand what I'm saying to you. Being simply strong or fast does not make you a good fighter, but coupling those with martial arts knowledge and skill does.
Good post^, people often confuse MA ability with Fighting ability, they may be close on MA ability, but i personally think IF is a better fighter, his stats help him become a better fighter. Similar to the arguments used in Cap v Bat thread, Cap to me is a better fighter, MA ability maybe not so much. Afterall, Fighting is combination of your knowledge/skill/strength & speed. If you have more, you are better...thats basic maths.
Originally posted by Juk3nShiva deals with Batmans strength fine and he's stronger than Danny without amping and her reaction time is pretty good.
Good post^, people often confuse MA ability with Fighting ability, they may be close on MA ability, but i personally think IF is a better fighter, his stats help him become a better fighter. Similar to the arguments used in Cap v Bat thread, Cap to me is a better fighter, MA ability maybe not so much. Afterall, Fighting is combination of your knowledge/skill/strength & speed. If you have more, you are better...thats basic maths.
Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, you are ignoring, you know, by acting like none of that existed so you could say DD was winning on seemingly equal grounds, when that's not the case. Under said context DD was able to momentarily get the better of him, I don't see how that shows Elektra is a better fighter. If you meant that Matt under the conditions of the fight, using weapons, etc. and Danny not using his chi attacks, was pushing Danny to the limit, then ok.Mind swapping has nothing at all to do with physical abilities, that is completely irrelevant. If Elektra lost all her superhuman physical traits would you still say she was just as good of a fighter? Overall ability IS what determines how good of a fighter you are. Fighting ability is a part of it, but not the whole. You can't determine how good a fighter someone is without factoring in their physical abilities as well, it's not possible.
It hardly matters whether you are physically enhanced through practice or magically enhanced, either one will act to improve the fighter.
Skill is one aspect of being a good fighter, it is not the entirety of it.
You don't seem to be able to understand what I'm saying to you. Being simply strong or fast does not make you a good fighter, but coupling those with martial arts knowledge and skill does.
Absolutely agreed mate. Good post 👆
Originally posted by MindsetIt's not that it didn't exist, it's just that it went flying out the god damned window the moment Rand decided to use his most powerful and devistating attack in a h2h fight. Something that would directly expose him in an instant he was trying NOT to be exposed.
Yea, you are ignoring, you know, by acting like none of that existed so you could say DD was winning on seemingly equal grounds, when that's not the case. Under said context DD was able to momentarily get the better of him, I don't see how that shows Elektra is a better fighter. If you meant that Matt under the conditions of the fight, using weapons, etc. and Danny not using his chi attacks, was pushing Danny to the limit, then ok.
If you can't concede to that, then you're ignoring common sense.
It shows Elektra as a better fighter because she's commonly able to handle DD in h2h with some amount of ease.
Originally posted by MindsetWhich just goes to show you that chi related abilities don't reflect how good a fighter one is...
Mind swapping has nothing at all to do with physical abilities, that is completely irrelevant..
Originally posted by MindsetAbsolutely.... she wouldn't be able to win as many fights but her skill level doesn't go down.
If Elektra lost all her superhuman physical traits would you still say she was just as good of a fighter?
Originally posted by Mindset
Overall ability IS what determines how good of a fighter you are.
Originally posted by Mindset
Fighting ability is a part of it, but not the whole.
Originally posted by Mindset
You can't determine how good a fighter someone is without factoring in their physical abilities as well, it's not possible.
Originally posted by MindsetBut NOT how good they are at fighting.
It hardly matters whether you are physically enhanced through practice or magically enhanced, either one will act to improve the fighter.
Originally posted by MindsetAnticipation, forethought etc also play into it. When you start talking about enhanced physical stature though, you're referencing something else entirely.
Skill is one aspect of being a good fighter, it is not the entirety of it.
Originally posted by MindsetAh okay then in that case Namor's a better fighter than Cap?
You don't seem to be able to understand what I'm saying to you. Being simply strong or fast does not make you a good fighter, but coupling those with martial arts knowledge and skill does.
No I get what you're saying. You think chi amping reflects how good a fighter Rand is, yet Cap I would venture to say is his better and it isn't because he can chi amp.
Originally posted by jinzinLook at her speed feats, her fights with any top tiers, you already said you put Taskmaster on possibly the same footing as Iron Fist and Elektra ripped him apart practically one shotting him.
Taskmaster has been losing a step lately. Moonknight made him beg for mercy, Daredevil beat him, and even Deadpool who had his hands and feet tied made him look bad. Plus losing to Electra, as well getting owned by Agent X.
Taskmaster only looks good with his Cap record against the streets and Spiderman. Ironfist would also make him look bad unless a good writer takes Task up a notch, right now he's starting to look like a joke. Which I hope a writer really does him better in the future since his power set is bad ass IMO.
Originally posted by jinzin
Oh please they both hold back in their fights and you know full well DD gave him all he could handle in their last encounter. To even begin to insinuate that Elektra isn't on the same level as Iron Fist is flat out insane.
DD usually holds back on Elektra as well. He does that with all his friends and ppl he loves. Unless out of his mind that is.
Originally posted by Juk3n
Afterall, Fighting is combination of your knowledge/skill/strength & speed. If you have more, you are better...thats basic maths.
I kinda disagree. Its all on how you USE it to be as effective as possible. Hence Taskmaster. He has all those things, but usually against other high end MA's they are able to use their abilities better than they way he uses his. Thats what makes them better fighters.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To be fair he made a plane land on top of him and the win was really pyschological.
Re-checked It your right he did get hit just substitute the Moonknight one with Mr.X.
Yeah I know Mr.X can read your mind, still Logan beat him and even Shiva has beat a telepathic fighter as well.
Originally posted by jinzinI'm not going to address every point, because you wrote too much and there's no point.
It's not that it didn't exist, it's just that it went flying out the god damned window the moment Rand decided to use his most powerful and devistating attack in a h2h fight. Something that would directly expose him in an instant he was trying NOT to be exposed.If you can't concede to that, then you're ignoring common sense.
It shows Elektra as a better fighter because she's commonly able to handle DD in h2h with some amount of ease.Which just goes to show you that chi related abilities don't reflect how good a fighter one is...
for example.. I can't prove that Elektra's a better h2h fighter than Shang Chi just because she can perform the silent scream easily while her mind is preoccupied while he almost loses his voice in the same process.
But you somehoe came to the conclusion that his ability to chi amp IS a reflection of his h2h skill... it isn't.Absolutely.... she wouldn't be able to win as many fights but her skill level doesn't go down.
No it determines how well you do in a fight.. There's a major difference there, especially when you're talking about characters who have such a massive range in special abilities.
Exactly...
Again, Hulk is a better figher than Cap.... 🙄
But NOT how good they are at fighting.
Anticipation, forethought etc also play into it. When you start talking about enhanced physical stature though, you're referencing something else entirely.
Ah okay then in that case Namor's a better fighter than Cap?
No I get what you're saying. You think chi amping reflects how good a fighter Rand is, yet Cap I would venture to say is his better and it isn't because he can chi amp.
You are confusing a good fighter with someone who is a good martial artist. You think Cap is better than Danny, well Danny said Cap's fighting style is basic, which seems to imply Danny is the better martial artist, that, however, does not mean he is the better fighter.
The Namor and Cap comparison you are trying to draw from, is like comparing a heavy weight fighter to a feather weight, it doesn't apply to what I'm saying. But compare people of relative strength, such as Namor and Thing, then seeing who the better fighter is would be apparent.
Your physical attributes play a part in your fighting ability, it doesn't matter how these atributes were strengthened. You keep trying to disregard this for IF because he uses chi, well so what, he has chi, so it doesn't matter.