Completed Palpatine Essay

Gideon
Yeah, you'll have to.

And I noticed you didn't respond to the other part.

Gideon
Your “off hand” mention of the Slayers coordination seemed like an attempt at apologetics; the guide notes that the battle meld in general is “an advantage the enemy couldn’t match.” How much do you think a little enhanced coordination would compare to the full might of the Skywalkers’ battle meld?

Probably because you're attempt to mitigate the battle-meld failed utterly, completely, and oh-so-miserably.

WTF?

He is the one who is noted to have basically reached godhood during this duel. He is the one that they are in awe of.

And you're telling me that he's not the one who's benefitting from this power up?

By the way, unless I'm missing something, how the hell is that even a decent argument? The fact that he is a "calm center" is somehow proof that he's not drawing power from them?

He isn't the "calm center," he's described as drawing power from "a calm center; an eye." If he'd been drawing power directly from either Jacen or Jaina's Force reserves, it logically would have been explained as such.

Originally posted by Eminence
This other part?

It's been addressed twice already. You dismissed it as apologetics, I don't really care.

I clearly struck a nerve, because I'm right. All of Luke's major feats during that book are because of a battle-meld! I win!!1!oneone!!

No u.

I accept your concession.

Yes, it couldn't possibly be that he's just that much better than them and cutting loose in a way they haven't seen before.

That's probably it.

Because it couldn't be because he's reached an uber level of functioning because of their extremely potent battle-meld.

I'm telling you he isn't benefiting from the meld as much as they are, because that would make no sense.

Prove it.

Jesus.

He isn't the "calm center," he's described as drawing power from "a calm center; an eye." If he'd been drawing power directly from either Jacen or Jaina's Force reserves, it logically would have been explained as such.

A calm center; an eye. Hmm. You mean the Force? The Force that he practically entered a state of unity with as per the guide's words?

Nah.

Originally posted by Gideon
Are you telling me that the Hidden One is (or intended to be?) a high tier Force user?

I rather doubt it.

You're asserting that Luke is weak or his abilities are exaggerated because of his show against the random monk. I say the random monk is anything but average BECAUSE he made Luke work.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yep, promise.

I apologize Gideon, but i desire more then your word. I want you to explain to me how the meld was the reason for Luke's ability to defeat the immense army when he was scaling the citadel, when i remember one occasion where Jacen left the meld to use his vongsense and Luke lost no apparent momentum (pg 420 and i doubt this was the only time he did leave the meld). Also there's also the issue of Jacen's quote (see below).

Originally posted by Gideon
Jacen recalled watching his uncle on Belkadan, where the war had begun, wielding two lightsabers when he had come to Jacen's rescue. But the rescue on Belkadan paled in comparison to the control Luke demonstrated now

Originally posted by Fan Skywalker
I apologize Gideon, but i desire more then your word. I want you to explain to me how the meld was the reason for Luke's ability to defeat the immense army when he was scaling the citadel, when i remember one occasion where Jacen left the meld to use his vongsense and Luke lost no apparent momentum (pg 420 and i doubt this was the only time he did leave the meld). Also there's also the issue of Jacen's quote (see below).

Say please.

Originally posted by Gideon
I clearly struck a nerve, because I'm right. All of Luke's major feats during that book are because of a battle-meld! I win!!1!oneone!!

I accept your concession.

That's probably it.

Because it couldn't be because he's reached an uber level of functioning because of their extremely potent battle-meld.

So I win.

Prove it.

A calm center; an eye. Hmm. You mean the Force? The Force that he practically entered a state of unity with as per the guide's words?

Nah.

Edit: And so much for Orwell. Nerd.

“The uniting of several Jedi Knights through the Force, a technique developed by the Jedi during the Yuuzhan Vong War to draw strength from one another and act as a single, powerful entity.”
- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia , A-G, page 287.

“By telepathically linking their minds together, Jedi can draw on one another’s strength for support.”

“Battle-meld permits a group of Jedi to become stronger than if each stood alone, while enabling them to communicate with one another through the Force.”

- the Essential Guide to the Force, page 79.

Further proof that the Force meld or battle-meld goes beyond mere coordination.

Originally posted by Eminence
Nope.

Prove it, then.

I concede nothing.

Yes, you do.

I accept your concession.

No, you don't.

I didn't say he wasn't still a part of their meld.

So I win.

Which means he didn't do it on his own or of his own power. Which means my point still stands, and he's no match for Palpatine.

I win.

It's logical. Why would [by [b]far] the strongest of the trio be the most dependent on their collective pool of power?[/B]

Because, logically, he's their only hope; why would he lower himself to compensate for them when the outcome of this battle decides the war itself?

You lost me.

Edit: And so much for Orwell. Nerd.

Finished. Nerd. And why are you calling me a nerd? One of us has a hot girlfriend, is insanely popular, and recently prom king. The other is you.

The calm center could be an expression for the Force, which the Essential Guide makes it clear that Luke and the others were drawing on heavily during the meld.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You're asserting that Luke is weak or his abilities are exaggerated because of his show against the random monk.

Um, neither. I'm asserting they're inconsistent and that he hasn't demonstrated the power to take down Palpatine.

Way to think like Janus, DS. Because I am not fellating a character, I must have it out for him.

I say the random monk is anything but average BECAUSE he made Luke work.

No one said he's average. But he's miles and miles and miles beneath anyone truly notable.

Originally posted by Gideon
Um, neither. I'm asserting they're inconsistent and that he hasn't demonstrated the power to take down Palpatine.

Way to think like Janus, DS. Because I am not fellating a character, I must have it out for him.

No one said he's average. But he's miles and miles and miles beneath anyone truly notable. [/B]

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You're asserting that Luke is weak or his abilities are exaggerated because of his show against the random monk.

You assumed that I was trying to downplay Luke's abilities, DS. That implies an agenda, which I don't have.

And I loved the read like Nai comment; fantastic comeback. I say we use them often.

As regards the Hidden One's strength, it's equally ridiculous to assume that he's top tier. The fact that he challenged Luke Skywalker doesn't mean a lot; didn't you once argue that Darth Nihilus couldn't be considered top tier? Well, Nihilus has a lot more going for him than this guy.

You need to pick a side and stick with it.

All right, folks. I'm going to hit the sack (no jokes plz). Tee tee why el.

Originally posted by Gideon
You assumed that I was trying to downplay Luke's abilities, DS. That implies an agenda, which I don't have.

I'm not arguing that he struggled, but it seems that your contention is that BECAUSE he struggled, he's not as powerful as everyone believes. IF I am right and that is your contention which I hope it's not, it's not a very good one. First you'd have to judge the quality of the opponent, and then you'd have to judge the intensity with which Luke was fighting.

You need to pick a side and stick with it.

Originally posted by Gideon
All right, folks. I'm going to hit the sack (no jokes plz). Tee tee why el.

Gideon
Finished. Nerd. And why are you calling me a nerd? One of us has a hot girlfriend.

We'll cover the rest tomorrow, once you're out of your father's whore's house and have cited everything pertaining to the battle meld that you possibly can.

psst, Eminence.

*leans in close and whispers* You should just remind him that he's retired, he'll back right off.

In time.

The cited information is here. Once again, Eminence, refrain from indulging your frustration at being universally ignored. It's not our fault that you're fat, worthless, stupid, and hideously unpopular.

Originally posted by Gideon
“The uniting of several Jedi Knights through the Force, a technique developed by the Jedi during the Yuuzhan Vong War to draw strength from one another and act as a single, powerful entity.”
- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia , A-G, page 287.

“By telepathically linking their minds together, Jedi can draw on one another’s strength for support.”

“Battle-meld permits a group of Jedi to become stronger than if each stood alone, while enabling them to communicate with one another through the Force.”

- the Essential Guide to the Force, page 79.

Further proof that the Force meld or battle-meld goes beyond mere coordination.

The random monk is a force god.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove it, then.

I win.

Yes, you do.

No, you don't.

Which means he didn't do it on his own or of his own power.

Which means my point still stands, and he's no match for Palpatine.

I win.

Because, logically, he's their only hope; why would he lower himself to compensate for them when the outcome of this battle decides the war itself?

Finished. Nerd. And why are you calling me a nerd?

QED.

The calm center could be an expression for the Force, which the Essential Guide makes it clear that Luke and the others were drawing on heavily during the meld.

The cited information is here.

Once again, Eminence, refrain from indulging your frustration at being universally ignored. It's not our fault that you're fat, worthless, stupid, and hideously unpopular.