Aegis VS Dark phoenix

Originally posted by Xplosive

You are right actually,

but it's just awkward the PF could be truly erased.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Definitively proven would be when he would nullify her,
although it seems, he would truly be able to do it.

ANyone who read the story knows that without a doubt,
Galactus was able, and was actually doing it too,
so there's no question he was capable.

Of course, the Phoenix is a famouse character,
they're not going to kill it from Marvel. (atleast not then)

Originally posted by starlock
The fact that rachael/phoenix own her own accord...

really she doesn't lease it?
I always figured rachael for a jeep kinda girl rather than a honda.

Originally posted by Mr Master
X, freaggin Eternity/Infinity have been erased & re-created,
why would the PF as a concept
be more surprising when the PF is nothing compared to them.

I didn't say surprising, why not, it's only weird.

Originally posted by rotiart
really she doesn't lease it?
I always figured rachael for a jeep kinda girl rather than a honda.

Hopefully, the bird returns

Let's pray it won't be during Sisterhood ark.
Anyway, Aegis doesn't have enough feats to properly compare. IMO it's too early to bring her and Tenebrous up.

If the scan is of him releasing her then why does he give a speech of how he is supreme unto himself and will not be bound by Reaper, entity or concept? Which is more or less saying "I'm Galactus *****, you don't tell me what to do" "Yet Phoenix lives" how does this statement even make sense if he was releasing her and not going through with what he was doing? "Yet..." would infer that she lived in spite of what he did, so why would any logical person think that after such a defiant speech he then decides to let her go, "Yet" she lives? And furthermore he did not seek to erase the Phoenix Force, merely to remove it from Rachel, he was admonished for trying to seperate the Force from it's chosen form, not erase it from existence, Rachel was it's perferred form of manifestation at the time and not a fully actuallized Phoenix as evidenced by the piece that broke off from Rachels piece to go to Maddie, his speech proves that this all was more along the lines of a pissing contest, not to mention that even though he was upsetting the cosmos he was still told by Roma that he wouldn't be able to do it anyway and the mere attempt was causing the stars to blink out. So Death tells him, if all you want to do was commit suicide then come with me now.

or yet could mean still, and actions speak louder than words, still it was a forced seperation that was killing the stars had he completed (even though Roma seems to think he can't) what he was doing, the Phoenix would not have been erased only seperated from it's link to the universe Rachel.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is what it is:

The Phoenix Force in its natural state is sustained by the psyche of living beings,
and in turn the PF is the sustenance of the Stars,
making the PF the connection between stellar bodies and Mankind,
WITHOUT the PF's existence,
the Stars would fade because they would have no energy to draw on,
energy which derives from the psyche of living beings, which sustain the Force.

Here's the proof that Phoenix is sustained by the life-force (psyche) of living beings:

(official Handbook of the Marvel Universe - Phoenix Force bio)

"The Phoenix Force is ... a manifestation of the prime universal force of life,
derived from the psyches of all living beings.
In it's natural state, this life-cycle is enough to sustain the Force"

...............................................................................

On Panel verification:

"I am sustained by life's fiery cycle"

"Sustenance of the Stars"

...............................................................................

...............................................................................

Ok, this is what occurred during Excalibur #25

...............................................................................

When Galactus intended to separate the Force from Rachel,
he inadvertently began erasing the Phoenix Force from existence!

This is because the Phoenix Force had bonded fully with Rachel Summers ...

Rachel Summers was the embodiment of the Phoenix Force ...

The Phoenix Force itself told Rachel:

"You are the ONE true Phoenix"

Again, the Phoenix Force tells Rachel:

"ALL I have become, You ARE Too"

"My essence has bonded to your spirit"

...............................................................................

...............................................................................

Anyway, back to Galactus ... so Rachel accepts ...

Galactus begins to separate Rachel from the Phoenix Force ...

...............................................................................

But in doing so, Galactus begins to kill both Rachel and the Phoenix Force ...

confirmed by the Roma/Uatu and Death!

"Galactus ... the Stars are going Out"

*** and this is WHY, according to Roma ***

"That Child (Rachel Summers) is Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death,
there is a natural order to her being (EXISTENCE) as to yours, and all creation"

...............................................................................

As we can see, the Stars would die,
and those life-forms that need Stars would die too.

But Galactus, Uatu and Death survive, this means all the Abstracts survive,
as does anyone with a self-sustaining existence,
this is because the universe wouldn't collapse,
only Stars, and the dependents thereof die,
meh, Death even invites Galactus to her realm, lol.

...............................................................................

Galactus responded with:

"I am Supreme unto myself, I will NOT be bound Reaper, by Entity or Concept"

Watcher says:

"Yet Phoenix LIVES" (Uatu thought Galactus was going to surely kill Phoenix)

Galactus responds:

"FOR the PRESENT" --- as in, for Now ... (What does this sound like to you?)

... "the day is yours Starchilde,
and with it, an awareness of your Role (the Eternal Pattern)
in the Scheme of Things"

..........................................................................................

The Eternal Pattern, is Phoenix's ROLE in the Universe,
Galactus was going to END that Pattern
by unwittingly ERASING the Phoenix Force from existence,
Galactus initially only wanted to return the Force to the cosmos,
but as we learned, that was impossible,
because Rachel was Phoenix the embodiment of the Force,
so in trying to separate them,
Galactus was indeed killing them both which were one (Rachel/Phoenix)

just like the Official Marvel Handbook clearly states,
Roma, "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix"

Had Galactus not freed the Phoenix Force with the click of that button,
the Phoenix would have vanished into non-existence.

=============================================

=============================================

So ... we know ...

Roma was referring to Phoenix being ERASED from existence,

and it's CANON!

(an excerpt from Roma's OFFICIAL Marvel Universe Handbook Bio)

- Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -

"Warned Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"

...............................................................................

I remember a debate where someone thought this scenerio was about the separation,
where only Rachel would die,
and not about the fact that the Phoenix Force is about to get ERASED!
BUT,
WHY would Roma CARE if Galactus slays Rachel Summers? bermm

...............................................................................

In fact

Before Galactus was about to KILL the Phoenix Force,

ROMA appears and says,

"Certain Events are of such Significance,
they must be Witnessed first hand,
THIS is a MOMENT in the Scheme of Things
which must stand or fall on it's own"

Yes, this moment of "such significance"
was simply about Galactus separating the Force from Rachel?

Instead of a True Cosmic event of Significance,
like the Phoenix Force being no more?

naw

...............................................................................

^ Gotta love the thoroughness of a Mr. M argument.

.... Anyway

Phoenix ftw.

I don't think that Aegis and Tenebrous are quite in Galactus level as he had defeated both of them before, and so did Surfer. Dark Phoenix may beat one of them, both would be harder.

Originally posted by LordKaos
If the scan is of him releasing her then why does he give a speech of how he is supreme unto himself and will not be bound by Reaper, entity or concept? Which is more or less saying "I'm Galactus *****, you don't tell me what to do" "Yet Phoenix lives" how does this statement even make sense if he was releasing her and not going through with what he was doing? "Yet..." would infer that she lived in spite of what he did, so why would any logical person think that after such a defiant speech he then decides to let her go, "Yet" she lives? And furthermore he did not seek to erase the Phoenix Force, merely to remove it from Rachel, he was admonished for trying to seperate the Force from it's chosen form, not erase it from existence, Rachel was it's perferred form of manifestation at the time and not a fully actuallized Phoenix as evidenced by the piece that broke off from Rachels piece to go to Maddie, his speech proves that this all was more along the lines of a pissing contest, not to mention that even though he was upsetting the cosmos he was still told by Roma that he wouldn't be able to do it anyway and the mere attempt was causing the stars to blink out. So Death tells him, if all you want to do was commit suicide then come with me now.

Simple.

1. Galactus' primary interest, above all things, is the continued existence of the Marvel (616) Universe as he knows it. His perpetual hunger is a means to that end. If Galactus dies, the MU dies with him. So, his hunger must always be satisfied.

2. Roma and Uatu tell Galactus what will happen if he continues what he's doing. Uatu asks "Can even you endure such desolation?"

3. Galactus responds that no one will tell him what to do. And that, the only forces that he is answerable to, are he and himself. In other words, no one influences Galactus except himself.

4. G released Phoenix. Watcher comments "yet Phoenix lives" because he, Roma, and Death all saw that Galactus had the intent and indeed was proceeding to do it. To Uatu's surprise "yet Phoenix lives" i.e. despite Galactus' will to erase the PF, she lives. Meaning, Uatu was surprised by Galactus' course of action. It has nothing to do with Galactus lacking the capability of doing it. If I drop you from a mountain top and you survive, "yet you still live" means despite the act it failed to do so (your interpretation).

If I threaten to drop you from the mountain top at any second, but 5 minutes later, you're still there on the mountain top, "yet you still live" despite my threat to do so.

You would logically know this because if Galactus lacked the capability of doing it, Uatu, Death, and Roma (ROMA, the OMNIVERSAL guardian!) would have no need whatsoever to warn him of the consequences!

That's like saying, Death Uatu and Roma came down to warn him only to see that G can't do it? Why go through all the song and dance to warn him BEFORE HAND if he didn't have the capability of doing it?

Think man. Uatu was surprised. Not an observation that she lives despite Galactus intending to kill her. It was an observation that she lives because Galactus changed his mind, much to Uatu's surprise.

Dark Phoenix takes it

Galactus only motive was to unbond the Phoenix Force from its host. The stars fading is a consequence of the unbonding processes.

Mr Master, what about PF drawing power from the "reservoir of all future life"?

From PF/G battle after Necrom's demise?

Originally posted by Mr Master
...............................................................................

[B]Galactus responded with:

"I am Supreme unto myself, I will NOT be bound Reaper, by Entity or Concept"

Watcher says:

"Yet Phoenix LIVES" (Uatu thought Galactus was going to surely kill Phoenix)

Galactus responds:

"FOR the PRESENT" --- as in, for Now ... (What does this sound like to you?)

... "the day is yours Starchilde,
and with it, an awareness of your Role (the Eternal Pattern)
in the Scheme of Things"

..........................................................................................

The Eternal Pattern, is Phoenix's ROLE in the Universe,
Galactus was going to END that Pattern
by unwittingly ERASING the Phoenix Force from existence,
Galactus initially only wanted to return the Force to the cosmos,
but as we learned, that was impossible,
because Rachel was Phoenix the embodiment of the Force,
so in trying to separate them,
Galactus was indeed killing them both which were one (Rachel/Phoenix)

just like the Official Marvel Handbook clearly states,
Roma, "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix"

Had Galactus not freed the Phoenix Force with the click of that button,
the Phoenix would have vanished into non-existence.

=============================================

=============================================

So ... we know ...

Roma was referring to Phoenix being ERASED from existence,

and it's CANON!

(an excerpt from Roma's OFFICIAL Marvel Universe Handbook Bio)

- Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -

"Warned Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"

...............................................................................

I remember a debate where someone thought this scenerio was about the separation,
where only Rachel would die,
and not about the fact that the Phoenix Force is about to get ERASED!
BUT,
WHY would Roma CARE if Galactus slays Rachel Summers? bermm

...............................................................................

In fact

Before Galactus was about to KILL the Phoenix Force,

ROMA appears and says,

"Certain Events are of such Significance,
they must be Witnessed first hand,
THIS is a MOMENT in the Scheme of Things
which must stand or fall on it's own"

Yes, this moment of "such significance"
was simply about Galactus separating the Force from Rachel?

Instead of a True Cosmic event of Significance,
like the Phoenix Force being no more?

naw

............................................................................... [/B]

Okay I have to ask if no one else will if Roma's Offical handbook bio says "she asked him not to slay Phoenix 2. Then what does that have to do with the Phoenix force and yes I understand that they were fully bonded but at the same time. If your gonna use that then it should have at least said Phoenix Force.

And I know let me repeat that they were fully bonded, but you saying why would Roma care about Rachel Summers is your own opinion I mean the PF sure does why else would she bond with Rachel or protect her body after her battle with Necrom. All I'm saying is that the article you used could also be used to prove that Rachel Summers aka Phoenix 2 would have been slayed not the PF.