U.S. Expected to Own 70% of Restructured G.M.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/business/27auto.html
Where are those fools claiming Obama was a socialist! This is capitalism at its finest!
U.S. Expected to Own 70% of Restructured G.M.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/business/27auto.html
Where are those fools claiming Obama was a socialist! This is capitalism at its finest!
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
“No one is going to put U.S. government employees on the G.M. board,” one person close to the ongoing discussions said on Tuesday.Also, anyone who thinks propping up GM is socialism needs to go learn something about socialism. Still probably going to be a terrible decision in the long run.
Who elects the board of directors of a company?
Which group just suddenly became majority shareholder and now controls 70% of GM's stock?
I will answer:
Shareholders elect those who run a company.
The Government is now 70% of all shareholders within GM.
The US Government does not need someone on the board, it can just kick off whoever they don't like and replace them.
And the government is not just propping them up, they're controlling them..which is socialism by its very definition.
Originally posted by KidRock
Who elects the board of directors of a company?Which group just suddenly became majority shareholder and now controls 70% of GM's stock?
I will answer:
Shareholders elect those who run a company.
The Government is now 70% of all shareholders within GM.
The US Government does not need someone on the board, it can just kick off whoever they don't like and replace them.
And the government is not just propping them up, they're controlling them..which is socialism by its very definition.
I will with for SC's rebuttal before I comment...I want to see his side before I agree with you as I could be mistaken in my understanding of it.
The best thing to do would be to solve the problem that led GM to becoming too big to fail. Break GM up into 4-5 companies, relocate each one in a different US state, auction off the rights to all of GM's brands between the five with the proceeds going to pay off investors, and sell GM's foreign divisions to foreign auto makers to pay off the rest. I'm not anticapitalist, I'm just anti-laissez faire and anit-what Ravi Batra calls Monopoly Capitalism
Originally posted by Darth Jello
The best thing to do would be to solve the problem that led GM to becoming too big to fail. Break GM up into 4-5 companies, relocate each one in a different US state, auction off the rights to all of GM's brands between the five with the proceeds going to pay off investors, and sell GM's foreign divisions to foreign auto makers to pay off the rest. I'm not anticapitalist, I'm just anti-laissez faire and anit-what Ravi Batra calls Monopoly Capitalism
Originally posted by Darth Jello
The best thing to do would be to solve the problem that led GM to becoming too big to fail.
You mean stop letting unions rape these companies? Stop paying workers 20$ more per hour then the Japanese companies do? Stop paying 8,000 employees WHO DON'T COME TO WORK?
Lets not do that. Lets blame big bad CEO and wall-street.
Originally posted by KidRock
You mean stop letting unions rape these companies? Stop paying workers 20$ more per hour then the Japanese companies do? Stop paying 8,000 employees WHO DON'T COME TO WORK?Lets not do that. Lets blame big bad CEO and wall-street.
Oh yeah, let's take away their pensions and health benefits since that's where you're getting those figures. That'll show them. In fact, we could solve this whole financial crisis by getting rid of all unions and forcing everyone who isn't currently wealthy to work for $2 an hour or in exchange for shelter and unpayable debt by bringing back unpaid labor. Screw the social safety nets and all other services, just treat all the undesirables and handicapped like Hitler did and gas them all. Oh, and maybe once someone gets sick or gets to be older than 45 they won't need healthcare or want to retire eventually. Hell, just take 'em out back and shoot 'em and charge the bullet and burial fees to the family. We don't even need to market anything in the US anymore. Just sell everything in Canada and Europe since their citizens can afford to buy things. Feudalism worked in Europe for over a thousand years. Why not just modernize it by blending it with plutocracy and bring it to the United States?
Originally posted by Darth Jello
The best thing to do would be to solve the problem that led GM to becoming too big to fail. Break GM up into 4-5 companies, relocate each one in a different US state, auction off the rights to all of GM's brands between the five with the proceeds going to pay off investors, and sell GM's foreign divisions to foreign auto makers to pay off the rest. I'm not anticapitalist, I'm just anti-laissez faire and anit-what Ravi Batra calls Monopoly Capitalism
The best thing to have done would have let them go bust, take all the millions, property etc off the managers and directors who got bonuses year after year, so they end up on the friggin street.
That would maybe inspire other fat cats to actually work in the interest of the company which employs them as aposed to filling their pockets as much as they can.
Too many cars are being produced, and the natural evolution of business in a capitalist sense has to take its toll, those who make the best, economically and intelligently will survive.
Originally posted by KidRock
Who elects the board of directors of a company?Which group just suddenly became majority shareholder and now controls 70% of GM's stock?
I will answer:
Shareholders elect those who run a company.
The Government is now 70% of all shareholders within GM.
The US Government does not need someone on the board, it can just kick off whoever they don't like and replace them.
And the government is not just propping them up, they're controlling them..which is socialism by its very definition.
Taking control of a single company isn't socialism. It might seem slightly socialist but until Obama starts nationalizing the all banks and snapping up control of healthy businesses it's much closer to non-lassie-faire capitalism than socialism. One business does not a trend make, but if Obama starts to make a habit of it I'll admit you have a point.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Oh yeah, let's take away their pensions and health benefits since that's where you're getting those figures. That'll show them. In fact, we could solve this whole financial crisis by getting rid of all unions and forcing everyone who isn't currently wealthy to work for $2 an hour or in exchange for shelter and unpayable debt by bringing back unpaid labor. Screw the social safety nets and all other services, just treat all the undesirables and handicapped like Hitler did and gas them all. Oh, and maybe once someone gets sick or gets to be older than 45 they won't need healthcare or want to retire eventually. Hell, just take 'em out back and shoot 'em and charge the bullet and burial fees to the family. We don't even need to market anything in the US anymore. Just sell everything in Canada and Europe since their citizens can afford to buy things. Feudalism worked in Europe for over a thousand years. Why not just modernize it by blending it with plutocracy and bring it to the United States?
This falls into the "If you don't have an answer, at least try to make someone laugh" department.
Originally posted by KidRock
The Government is now 70% of all shareholders within GM.
They said the tax payers own 70% of GM.
So, when the stock goes up I will receive my check in the mail? 🙄
And the government is not just propping them up, they're controlling them..which is socialism by its very definition.
It sure is. 👆
Originally posted by KidRock
You mean stop letting unions rape these companies? Stop paying workers 20$ more per hour then the Japanese companies do? Stop paying 8,000 employees WHO DON'T COME TO WORK?Lets not do that. Lets blame big bad CEO and wall-street.
Also, Japanese workers don't need the benefits US ones do because government programs provide them.
Re: U.S. Expected to Own 70% of Restructured G.M.
Originally posted by KidRockWhere are those fools claiming Obama was a socialist! This is capitalism at its finest!
And the government is not just propping them up, they're controlling them..which is socialism by its very definition.
???????????????????
Originally posted by Darth Jello
Oh yeah, let's take away their pensions and health benefits since that's where you're getting those figures. That'll show them. In fact, we could solve this whole financial crisis by getting rid of all unions and forcing everyone who isn't currently wealthy to work for $2 an hour or in exchange for shelter and unpayable debt by bringing back unpaid labor. Screw the social safety nets and all other services, just treat all the undesirables and handicapped like Hitler did and gas them all. Oh, and maybe once someone gets sick or gets to be older than 45 they won't need healthcare or want to retire eventually. Hell, just take 'em out back and shoot 'em and charge the bullet and burial fees to the family. We don't even need to market anything in the US anymore. Just sell everything in Canada and Europe since their citizens can afford to buy things. Feudalism worked in Europe for over a thousand years. Why not just modernize it by blending it with plutocracy and bring it to the United States?
Strawman.
That's a great idea. Actually, why bother to pay them at all? We could easily solve this crisis by forcing everyone in large companies into slave labor.
Strawman.
Kidrock can't even get his facts straight. He's basing how much they get paid on a false model that counted the value of GM workers pension, vacation days, maternity leave, personal days and healthcare and led people to conclude that they make in excess of $70 an hour which they then parroted on Fox News to take the blame away from the CEO's and blame the workers. That's like looking at the value of workers' comp and saying oh yeah, that guy at McDonald's makes $28 an hour.
One of the biggest factors in this crisis is the whole unsustainable model of supply side capitalism. One of the reasons you have so many cars is that wages have been stagnant for 30 years and credit is drying up. The main factor of demand is purchasing power which has been steadily going down. The most basic step of reforming the system before you undo all the damage the last four presidents did is to hire more Americans, give them more benefits and pay them more money and then they'll buy your shit. Even a nazi sympathizer like Henry Ford figured that out.
[i]
One of the biggest factors in this crisis is the whole unsustainable model of supply side capitalism. One of the reasons you have so many cars is that wages have been stagnant for 30 years and credit is drying up. The main factor of demand is purchasing power which has been steadily going down. The most basic step of reforming the system before you undo all the damage the last four presidents did is to hire more Americans, give them more benefits and pay them more money and then they'll buy your shit. Even a nazi sympathizer like Henry Ford figured that out. [/B]
GM's biggest problem is that they just assumed people would buy their cars regardless because of their brand. They were wrong. They started designing and making shit and ugly cars for higher prices than what the Japanese and Korean manufacturers were making.
They've also failed to tap into new markets in India and China which would have easily have made them huge profits.
That and they became too big. Would any of this be happening if instead of three big auto companies we had 7-10 smaller ones? We'd be saying yeah, it's terrible that Pontiac and Lincoln are failing but Chevrolet is expanding because of the hype over their Volt. I really do hope that one thing that comes out of this crisis is people remembering that too many large conglomerates and corporations are bad and that we have antitrust laws that should be enforced for the good of the economy.