Originally posted by NemeBro
Odd, since Kaliero actually cited some evidence for his stance and provided reasoning.Curious question, are insults fair game for mods when in a thread?
No. Insults are never fair game, for anyone.
Originally posted by BackFire
http://wii.ign.com/articles/112/1122068p1.htmlInteresting article about Samus' drastic change of character in this game.
That article is one of the most insulting pieces of tripe I've had the displeasure of reading.
He only put in a biased interpretation that has no value. Frankly, anyone in this argument trying to present the manga as a valid source of Samus' character in the games has automatically relegated themselves to a position of being utterly unreasonable. It's such an amazingly fringe, extremist... almost fanatical position as to be almost laughable. There are always people like this in all such discussions.
Originally posted by UshgarakIt would depend on who wrote the manga.
He only put in a biased interpretation that has no value. Frankly, anyone in this argument trying to present the manga as a valid source of Samus' character in the games has automatically relegated themselves to a position of being utterly unreasonable. It's such an amazingly fringe, extremist... almost fanatical position as to be almost laughable. There are always people like this in all such discussions.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
He only put in a biased interpretation that has no value. Frankly, anyone in this argument trying to present the manga as a valid source of Samus' character in the games has automatically relegated themselves to a position of being utterly unreasonable. It's such an amazingly fringe, extremist... almost fanatical position as to be almost laughable. There are always people like this in all such discussions.
Gah, it's tough.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I'm inclined to agree. I know that if I had said anything similar, I would have been warned or something by now, told to drop it, etc.
Well then that is down to a lack of observation on your part about how things are done.
Another pretty feeble shot from you there, GK. You know full well it's never going to be about ignoring those who disagree. It's just about ignoring those without reason.
It doesn't depend on who wrote the manga. That's again getting into a complete irrelevance. The games can only be compared, reasonably, to the other games- both on the grounds of the amount of people who have read the manga (an irrelevant, tiny amount) and the fact that games exist in their own continuity irrelevant of any side fiction and the expectations created by the games themselves are what we must compare the continuity of plot and characters to.
Samus does not act in Other M as she does in the other games- an out and out fact. To deny that is blindness. That she might act closer to the manga is irrelevance, and as some reviewers have commented- if you are so hardcore as to have read the manga, then you are going to like everything about any Metroid game no matter what in any case.
If they wanted to show a vulnerable Samus who freezes up against bad guys, a prequel was the place to do it. By the time of Other M, it is simply ridiculous. As for Samus' continual blather throughout the game, that's not exactly a continuity issue, but it's still bloody annoying and the idea she might have always been like that in the other games is almost heartbreaking. Maybe if they'd had some better scriptwriters; lines like 'confession time' are apt to make good people vomit.
All in all, a lot of people are just having to be very defensive about the fact that this game has not been as well received as was hoped. This is in turn because... it's simply not as good.
I have already very clearly laid out the basis for the official manga being a core part of the Metroid series' story.
Your personal ignorance of it does not change its relevance to the series.
Now provide evidence that the manga's readership is "an irrelevant, tiny amount".
You know full well it's never going to be about ignoring those who disagree. It's just about ignoring those without reason.
Ush, if you're not going to actually respond to anyone's arguments and instead simply attack them and accuse them of being "unreasonable" state that they're "fanboys", "biased", and "not worth" talking to, then go away. You're not providing any form of constructive discussion, you're not addressing anyone's points, all you're doing is repeating your declarations of superiority. That is trolling. I'd advice that you, as a member of law enforcement on this board, act in a manner that exemplifies a model member. You've made your point; you think everyone in here who disagrees with you is biased and illogical and not worth your time.
Not a basis that makes even the slightest bit of sense; it's not a refutation of anything I said.
Obviously I do. Similarly, any disagreements with my opinions in here don't really bother me because I've not seen any disagreements based on anything worth me caring about. This isn't about winning people over. People are never won over by this sort of thing. It's just about making your case as best you can. I've done that; that some people won;t ever be able to see sense is just the way it is.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Ush, if you're [b]not going to actually respond to anyone's arguments and instead simply attack them and accuse them of being "unreasonable" state that they're fanboys, biased, and "not worth" talking to, then go away. You're not providing any form of constructive discussion, you're not addressing anyone's points, all you're doing is repeating your decelerations of superiority. That is trolling. I'd advice that you, as a member of law enforcement on this board, act in a manner that exemplifies a model member. [/B]
GK wanted to know why I was not responding. I've told him. Your obvious glee in wanting to watch a war there is far more worrying, and your idea that I am not providing anything constructive is out and out untrue.
If you ever make a post like that again you will be warned.
Meanwhile, if people cannot tell the difference between savaging an opinion and what it is based on and trolling/flaming, then that's their problem.
Originally posted by Peach
How can an article that implies that the only way a female character can be strong and worthwhile is if they don't ever express anything - it even flat-out says "was now a woman I wish had just kept her mouth shut" - not be seen as insulting?
It doesn't imply that at all. It simply complains about how the character change doesn't fit with what has been established in prior games, and how making her into a weak woman who apparently can't do anything without the say-so of her male boss is disappointing. It doesn't complain that she says things, it complains about how she says them.
The only thing it's insulting to is the writing of the game. Which sounds pretty horrid going by everything I've seen and read.
Then again, this is Team Ninja, their portrayal of women, or their storytelling in general, has never been one of their strong points.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
GK wanted to know why I was not responding. I've told him.
Yeah?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I refuse to discuss things with people being so utterly unreasonable. Your refutation is not reasonable, intelligent or logical and going any further there is without point. Your position is so fanboy-blinded as to be shameful. I completely discount the value of anything you say about the matter and I don't care about anything you want answered. It's contemptible from start to finish.You will not allow yourself to see any kind of sense and it speaks poorly of you. I am very much used to idiiotic opinions being held about games; I am just saddened to see it from here.
So the fact remains from an objective, unbiased viewpoint that her behaviour is not even remotely consistent with that from the other games. Most intelligent commentators have noted this. Empty blather does not change that at all. You may as well deny that the sky is blue (or try to claim that the core Metroid audience is in Japan, for that matter, which is far from true).
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's not based on an objective look of material based evidence; it's based upon an inherently biased position of interpretation that will not shift no matter what logic or reason is put against it. I've seen such positions dozens of times and they are entirely pointless to try and attack. Ignoring such ridiculousness- and noting the behaviour from the person concerned for future reference- is the only approach to take. Your attempts to throw terms like 'hypocrisy' and 'retreat' into what you say are equally contemptible. I won't argue the matter because you are not worth arguing with. That's hardly a retreat. I have absolute confidence that my arguments already presented stand fully on their own merits, entirely irrelevant to what you say.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
He only put in a biased interpretation that has no value. Frankly, anyone in this argument trying to present the manga as a valid source of Samus' character in the games has automatically relegated themselves to a position of being utterly unreasonable. It's such an amazingly fringe, extremist... almost fanatical position as to be almost laughable. There are always people like this in all such discussions.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
There isn't a how's that; the opposition is also based on an inherently biased position. You'll find no reason there.
None of that is constructive. It's you putting your head in the sand and saying "nananananaan you're wrong I'm right nananana I can't hear you", and you've repeated that statement several times in a different phrased ways. You're being entirely stubborn and nonconstructive. GK's hardly attacked you in any manner and has remained completely pleasent in addressing you. Howare you justified in saying four times in a row that everyone who disagrees with you is a biased fanboy and "not worth" having discussions with?
If you ever make a post like that again you will be warned.
Do so, and I'll report you for abusing your power. There is no rule stating that I can't advise another member to settle down before he gets himself in trouble. 😬
Yet all of it was in direct reply to GK's askings, and just a few posts above I provided some more material about the basis of my arguments.
Your irritation with me is not something I care about but you are now allowing it to spill into direct attacks that are pointless. I am now giving you that official warning. I am making my points in here. What I am saying is legitimate. I am not, in any way, trolling or flaming. If you want to discuss that, take it to PM. If you want to report me, go ahead and see what good it does you- that's an empty threat.
You should just calm down.