God exists and is a terrible and hateful being, or God does not exist.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Surely, much has been posted over this thread. Please, excuse my ignorance, if the substance of my post, has already been provided and/or discussed. I have not read all postings, but I have read some. Thank you.

"God exists, and is a terrible, hateful being, or God does not exist," is the title of this thread. Well... I disagree.

To begin, let me say this: the title, in itself, is loaded.

Let me, explain, please.

The nature of God rests solely in "theology," not Science. So... I assume, you, see the difference and/or division. For example, God may be evil and/or a menace, but that has nothing to do with "existence."

And for the latter: What does it mean that man is made in the image of God?

Tell me what you think.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
A whole lot of we think it means this and this, this is only ONE thing it COULD be but not the only one.

😕

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
😕

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Yep that's right, I said that 😛

That concerns we. 😉

Originally posted by ushomefree
Surely, much has been posted over this thread. Please, excuse my ignorance, if the substance of my post, has already been provided and/or discussed. I have not read all postings, but I have read some. Thank you.

"God exists, and is a terrible, hateful being, or God does not exist," is the title of this thread. Well... I disagree.

To begin, let me say this: the title, in itself, is loaded.

Let me, explain, please.

The nature of God rests solely in "theology," not Science. So... I assume, you, see the difference and/or division. For example, God may be evil and/or a menace, but that has nothing to do with "existence."

And for the latter: What does it mean that man is made in the image of God?

Tell me what you think.

theology without science is solely confined to fiction.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

So, god being evil does not stop him from existing?

I believe that God is not evil; satan is evil. But, for the sake of argument, I understand your question, and the answer is "yes."

leonheartmm

Theology without science is solely confined to fiction.

Theology has absolutely nothing to do with Science; they are two (2) totally different topics of study. Elaborate, please.

Originally posted by ushomefree
[B]I believe that God is not evil; satan is evil. But, for the sake of argument, I understand your question, and the answer is "yes."...

How can you reconcile your belief that god is not evil with the idea that he could be evil?

Think about this for a second. Humans take for granted things that are good, and focus on the bad.

Take someone who goes to a restaurant to eat for example: If there is a bad service they more often than not will complain, however, how often do you see people who note when they had a good experience, other than giving, maybe a slightly larger tip. A good point towards this is that my mother is one of the few people who will ask for a manager to compliment a server if he/she did a good job. However, every time she does this, they start freaking out trying to figure out what they did wrong, simply because, so many more people are more willing to focus on what went wrong than what went right.

Take news as another example. A story of a bomb threat will be reported on over and over unless that bomb is disarmed and everyone is safe, and then that story will be dropped immediately, but if the bomb explodes… well that’s news for a week or more. Why? Because it was a tragedy, and people focus on tragedy, and don’t notice or care when things are going well.

Your narrow choices, Kid Rock, are not the only two possibilities. Honestly, nothing is that simple. There are far more variables to why there is pain in this world that don’t lead to either of those two conclusions. Simply stating that

“God exists and is a terrible and hateful being, or God does not exist.
I see those as being the only 2 options. Which one is true, I don't know. But I definitley know that with the world we live in it's impossible for God to be a good, merciful and caring entity.”

Now, obviously this is not universally true, personally, I try to balance my focus between the good and the bad, some people focus only on the good, but the majority likes to focus on the bad.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How can you reconcile your belief that god is not evil with the idea that he could be evil?

I think what he is trying to say is that, correct me if I am wrong, he does not believe God is evil, but can see how people could come to that conclusion.

Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
...I think what he is trying to say is that, correct me if I am wrong, he does not believe God is evil, but can see how people could come to that conclusion.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

How can you reconcile your belief that god is not evil with the idea that he could be evil?

Theology! And if I may expound... Jesus the Christ. An evil God would never sacrifice Himself for man. The world is in complete chaos -- the byproduct of living apart from God! And it is no fault but our own. And yet, God respects our freedom to choose -- to have freedom. Such bares the fruit of love. Nothing in our lives in coerced, and we know, instinctively, that God exists. And we know, instinctively, when we have sinned. Well... at least we know when people sin against us as individuals. The law of God is written in our hearts. It's not taught, only habits. Man is not perfect, and we are all failures in the eyes of God. But God, again, loves us. And, speaking for myself, I can't understand love of this magnitude. I just can't. You have to understand that God is Holy, not evil! That is why God condemns sin (to begin with). Otherwise, I'd have to conclude that God is strange indeed. Life is some strange experiment and/or entertainment. I read a story some years ago, about teenagers breaking into the house of a vacationed couple. Upon entry, they vandalized the house. They took the dog that was present and cooked it alive in the oven. Now, speaking for myself, I would have given them life in prison for such an act! For all I know, they got probation. The point is, justice will be served in the end (however postponed it may seem). The actions of those kids was evil, not taught. God does not want judgement; God wants salvation -- to give life! But God will not force it. Doing so would undermine freedom, and that is not love. Man is evil, not God.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Theology! And if I may expound... Jesus the Christ. An evil God would never sacrifice Himself for man.

An evil god can do anything including sacrificing himself as long as it served his needs.

Originally posted by ushomefree
The world is in complete chaos -- the byproduct of living apart from God!

The world is not in chaos. Even chaos is a type of order. See Chaotic Order.

Originally posted by ushomefree
And it is no fault but our own. And yet, God respects our freedom to choose -- to have freedom.

Responsibility for all things in our lives in a corner stone of my religion.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Such bares the fruit of love. Nothing in our lives in coerced, and we know, instinctively, that God exists.

We do not know that god exists instinctively. It is something that is learned. However, the need for religion is instinctual.

Originally posted by ushomefree
And we know, instinctively, when we have sinned.

What is sin? To a Christian sin is one thing while to a Muslim it is something else.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Well... at least we know when people sin against us as individuals. The law of God is written in our hearts.

Which law? The bible or the Koran? Why?

Originally posted by ushomefree
It's not taught, only habits. Man is not perfect, and we are all failures in the eyes of God. But God, again, loves us. And, speaking for myself, I can't understand love of this magnitude. I just can't. You have to understand that God is Holy, not evil!

I don’t have an opinion.

Originally posted by ushomefree
That is why God condemns sin (to begin with). Otherwise, I'd have to conclude that God is strange indeed. Life is some strange experiment and/or entertainment. I read a story some years ago, about teenagers breaking into the house of a vacationed couple. Upon entry, they vandalized the house. They took the dog that was present and cooked it alive in the oven. Now, speaking for myself, I would have given them life in prison for such an act! For all I know, they got probation. The point is, justice will be served in the end (however postponed it may seem).

I believe in Karma, so I agree. 😉

Originally posted by ushomefree
The actions of those kids was evil, not taught. God does not want judgement; God wants salvation -- to give life! But God will not force it. Doing so would undermine freedom, and that is not love.

Then you do not believe that god can be evil?

Originally posted by ushomefree
Theology! And if I may expound... Jesus the Christ. An evil God would never sacrifice Himself for man. The world is in complete chaos -- the byproduct of living apart from God! And it is no fault but our own. And yet, God respects our freedom to choose -- to have freedom. Such bares the fruit of love. Nothing in our lives in coerced, and we know, instinctively, that God exists. And we know, instinctively, when we have sinned. Well... at least we know when people sin against us as individuals. The law of God is written in our hearts. It's not taught, only habits. Man is not perfect, and we are all failures in the eyes of God. But God, again, loves us. And, speaking for myself, I can't understand love of this magnitude. I just can't. You have to understand that God is Holy, not evil! That is why God condemns sin (to begin with). Otherwise, I'd have to conclude that God is strange indeed. Life is some strange experiment and/or entertainment. I read a story some years ago, about teenagers breaking into the house of a vacationed couple. Upon entry, they vandalized the house. They took the dog that was present and cooked it alive in the oven. Now, speaking for myself, I would have given them life in prison for such an act! For all I know, they got probation. The point is, justice will be served in the end (however postponed it may seem). The actions of those kids was evil, not taught. God does not want judgement; God wants salvation -- to give life! But God will not force it. Doing so would undermine freedom, and that is not love. Man is evil, not God.

Again we do not know instinctively that god exists, another false assumption.

You are making a lot of assumptions with the dog, there are SO many other factors that can come into play as to why they did this other then they are just "evil". Now if they repent then they will not get justice in the end but Heaven so you point is mute. If you turly wanted to help your children would you try everything? Why would you give you child only one option that doesn't seem to work, wouldn't you try something else to help them see the right path? God doesn't do this, he only gives one way of doing this and that is to bow down before him. He doesn't teach his children, he has his children teach his children.

God could have made Earth to be like Heaven, we would still have our freedom of choice but no pain and suffering so why would he do this?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If something appears to be evil, it is evil. Can you give me an example of something that appears to be evil, but is really pure good?

However, Good and Evil are not so easily defined. What appears to be good to one person appears evil to another.

For example, The crusades were evil according to the Muslims, but was good according to the christians. And on the flip side of that the christians viewed the muslims as evil and the muslims viewed the christians are evil. So, are you telling me that both sides are evil, just because both side viewed the other as evil?

Same with WWII. The Nazis viewed the Allies as evil for trying to stop them from perging the world of the Jews, Gypsies, and Homosexuals. Were the allies evil simply because the Nazis viewed them as such?

The Spanish Inquisition viewed many people as evil, and had them executed, were those people evil because the Inquisition viewed them as such?

Salem Witch trials, many people were wrongly executed for being witches, to the people of Salem they appeared evil... but were they just because the people of Salem saw them that way?

Originally posted by Mandrag Ganon
However, Good and Evil are not so easily defined. What appears to be good to one person appears evil to another.

For example, The crusades were evil according to the Muslims, but was good according to the christians. And on the flip side of that the christians viewed the muslims as evil and the muslims viewed the christians are evil. So, are you telling me that both sides are evil, just because both side viewed the other as evil?

Same with WWII. The Nazis viewed the Allies as evil for trying to stop them from perging the world of the Jews, Gypsies, and Homosexuals. Were the allies evil simply because the Nazis viewed them as such?

The Spanish Inquisition viewed many people as evil, and had them executed, were those people evil because the Inquisition viewed them as such?

Salem Witch trials, many people were wrongly executed for being witches, to the people of Salem they appeared evil... but were they just because the people of Salem saw them that way?

That is because good and evil is a path that people take. 😄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

An evil god can do anything including sacrificing himself as long as it served his needs.

I concede the point, but it is weak at best. Sacrifice, in itself, is an act of selflessness, not selfishness.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

The world is not in chaos. Even chaos is a type of order. See Chaotic Order.

Please, excuse my ignorance. Perhaps, I've been too busy reading up on current events to understand what is going on in this world. And for that I apologize. Yes, the world is a great place, and everything is swell: Bare Naked Islam.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

Responsibility for all things in our lives in a corner stone of my religion.

The cornerstone of Christianity is Jesus the Christ and His works, not fallible men.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

We do not know that god exists instinctively. It is something that is learned. However, the need for religion is instinctual.

Right, and you think religion is trying to covet knowledge of apple sauce or God? Answer: God. Our creator. All religion, not matter how false, leads to something greater than ourselves. Why do you deny the obvious?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

What is sin? To a Christian sin is one thing while to a Muslim it is something else.

Sin -- in my own words -- are actions contrary to God's law. If not for others, you become intimate with these laws when someone disrespects you or cuts off your head. And for the latter, the Koran is based on the Torah (Old Testament). The definition/understanding of sin is identical.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

Then you do not believe that god can be evil?

Absolutely! It would be against His very nature -- His being! God cannot be a square and a circle (at the same time).

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Yes an evil god could sacrifice himself for man if he wishes to device man, so that assumption is incorrect. What better way to fool someone then have them think you gave something up when you really didn't? After all the devil is supposed to be the ultimate deceiver is he not?

Again we do not know instinctively that god exists, another false assumption.

You are making a lot of assumptions with the dog, there are SO many other factors that can come into play as to why they did this other then they are just "evil". Now if they repent then they will not get justice in the end but Heaven so you point is mute. If you turly wanted to help your children would you try everything? Why would you give you child only one option that doesn't seem to work, wouldn't you try something else to help them see the right path? God doesn't do this, he only gives one way of doing this and that is to bow down before him. He doesn't teach his children, he has his children teach his children.

God could have made Earth to be like Heaven, we would still have our freedom of choice but no pain and suffering so why would he do this?

We don't know what we knew instinctively when we were born, because teaching and choice can over rule instinctive knowledge. But with as many religions as there are, I can't believe there isn't something out there, even if my belief of what it is turns out to be wrong. (not that I believe that it will.)

"Why would you give you child only one option that doesn't seem to work, wouldn't you try something else to help them see the right path? God doesn't do this, he only gives one way of doing this and that is to bow down before him. He doesn't teach his children, he has his children teach his children."

Originally posted by ushomefree
I concede the point, but it is weak at best. Sacrifice, in itself, is an act of selflessness, not selfishness.

Intent is everything.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Please, excuse my ignorance. Perhaps, I've been too busy reading up on current events to understand what is going on in this world. And for that I apologize. Yes, the world is a great place, and everything is swell: Bare Naked Islam.

I never said it was "swell".

Originally posted by ushomefree
The cornerstone of Christianity is Jesus the Christ and His works, not fallible men.

Jesus was just a man.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Right, and you think religion is trying to covet knowledge of apple sauce or God? Answer: God. Our creator. All religion, not matter how false, leads to something greater than ourselves. Why do you deny the obvious?

You don't know much about other religions, do you?

Originally posted by ushomefree
Sin -- in my own words -- are actions contrary to God's law. If not for others, you become intimate with these laws when someone disrespects you or cuts off your head. And for the latter, the Koran is based on the Torah (Old Testament). The definition/understanding of sin of identical.

Sin is something made up by humans for human reasons.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Absolutely! It would be against His very nature -- His being! God cannot be a square and a circle (at the same time).

Then how can you "see" someone thinking god was evil?

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Yes an evil god could sacrifice himself for man if he wishes to device man, so that assumption is incorrect. What better way to fool someone then have them think you gave something up when you really didn't? After all the devil is supposed to be the ultimate deceiver is he not?

Again we do not know instinctively that god exists, another false assumption.

You are making a lot of assumptions with the dog, there are SO many other factors that can come into play as to why they did this other then they are just "evil". Now if they repent then they will not get justice in the end but Heaven so you point is mute. If you turly wanted to help your children would you try everything? Why would you give you child only one option that doesn't seem to work, wouldn't you try something else to help them see the right path? God doesn't do this, he only gives one way of doing this and that is to bow down before him. He doesn't teach his children, he has his children teach his children.

God could have made Earth to be like Heaven, we would still have our freedom of choice but no pain and suffering so why would he do this?

We don't know what we knew instinctively when we were born, because teaching and choice can over rule instinctive knowledge. But with as many religions as there are, I can't believe there isn't something out there, even if my belief of what it is turns out to be wrong. (not that I believe that it will.)

"Why would you give you child only one option that doesn't seem to work, wouldn't you try something else to help them see the right path? God doesn't do this, he only gives one way of doing this and that is to bow down before him. He doesn't teach his children, he has his children teach his children."

Have you ever thought that there may be things at play that we don't understand when it comes to that one way to heaven? Have you ever thought that it may be that is the only path that we are able to follow?

"God could have made Earth to be like Heaven, we would still have our freedom of choice but no pain and suffering so why would he do this?"

That's not entirely true. We are the sum of our experiences, the good and the bad. Our capacity for choice would not be the same if we didn't have both pleasure and pain to influence those choices.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Bare Naked Islam.

Oh, and Christianity has a spotless human rights record?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

Then how can you "see" someone thinking god was evil?

When people avoid accountability, they seek options -- they deny the truth! This, of course, makes them feel better about themselves.