God exists and is a terrible and hateful being, or God does not exist.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
You actually think that most of the people in this world lie, cheat, rape and kill people? That is really F'ed up.

Yep he does hate this creation because they are made of sin and that is how he made us.

Not a lot of people kill or rape, that is true, but think of all the people who lie, especially when it's to cover up a bigger sin, all the people who cheat, whether in business, games, or in relationships, and all the people who steal, whether it's a bank robbery, pickpocketing, or just taking your neighbor's property while they aren't looking... I'm sure everyone has done something like that at least once in their lives... It's all about how you handle that. Will you continue to do it, or will you step back and go "You know what? This isn't a very good thing for me to be doing."

We are not made of sin. God made us in His image, we as a race chose not to live up to His plan. However, because God saw it coming long before, He always had a backup plan. When we fell to sin, there was Judaism. When Israel turned away from God, He gave His only begotten Son to torture and death so your sins could be washed away.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Not a lot of people kill or rape, that is true, but think of all the people who lie, especially when it's to cover up a bigger sin, all the people who cheat, whether in business, games, or in relationships, and all the people who steal, whether it's a bank robbery, pickpocketing, or just taking your neighbor's property while they aren't looking... I'm sure everyone has done something like that at least once in their lives... It's all about how you handle that. Will you continue to do it, or will you step back and go "You know what? This isn't a very good thing for me to be doing."

We are not made of sin. God made us in His image, we as a race chose not to live up to His plan. However, because God saw it coming long before, He always had a backup plan. When we fell to sin, there was Judaism. When Israel turned away from God, He gave His only begotten Son to torture and death so your sins could be washed away.

It is a sad then when an Atheist has more value and hope in the human race then a Christan.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
You really have a sad outlook on life and people in general. You saying that a lot of people lie to cover a bigger sin then someone lie to save someones feelings (white lies) is pretty messed up. If you think of it name one child that has never lied about something that they did, how did the child learn to lie was it something the parents taught them? Parents have to teach the child right from wrong, why it is wrong to lie. We as a race didn't decided diddly squat, God didn't make us in his image because he is supposed to be perfect. God wasn't created through sex, God has always existed, God can never die, God has no physical form unless he wants it and I can keep going on so how are we made in God's image?

It is a sad then when an Atheist has more value and hope in the human race then a Christan.

This is probably the last time I'll post in this thread, since you seem to think I don't give value to the human race. That is completely false. I believe humans are wonderful beings God created, but that we choose NOT to do what is right more often than we do.

We are made in God's image because we have intelligence, and we have choices in life. Does a cow have the ability to think and choose like humans do? No. Do cats or insects or fish? No. Sure, a cat or something can choose to eat or sleep or whatever, but I mean to the extent a human can choose their own way. Humans are very special beings in that regard.

I never said parents don't have to teach their children. I'm a strong supporter of parents teaching children good morals. The problem is that many DON'T. Am I saying no parents teach their children? No. Am I saying the majority don't? No. I'm saying MANY don't. All that means is a large number don't.

While white lies are used to prevent hurtful confrontations, they're still sin, they're still deception. We shouldn't lie and give people false ideas. Wouldn't it be easier to just be kind and honest when you don't like something than to lie about it and deceive them?

Originally posted by Bat Dude
This is probably the last time I'll post in this thread, since you seem to think I don't give value to the human race. That is completely false. I believe humans are wonderful beings God created, but that we choose NOT to do what is right more often than we do.

We are made in God's image because we have intelligence, and we have choices in life. Does a cow have the ability to think and choose like humans do? No. Do cats or insects or fish? No. Sure, a cat or something can choose to eat or sleep or whatever, but I mean to the extent a human can choose their own way. Humans are very special beings in that regard.

I never said parents don't have to teach their children. I'm a strong supporter of parents teaching children good morals. The problem is that many DON'T. Am I saying no parents teach their children? No. Am I saying the majority don't? No. I'm saying MANY don't. All that means is a large number don't.

While white lies are used to prevent hurtful confrontations, they're still sin, they're still deception. We shouldn't lie and give people false ideas. Wouldn't it be easier to just be kind and honest when you don't like something than to lie about it and deceive them?

Saying that most parents do not teach their children good morals is also a way over generalization, it may be that it doesn't fit your standard of morals but they still teach their children right from wrong. I do not see more parents teaching their children that ling is good or nothing at all, do you? Do most parents just let their children do anything that they want? Do most parents teach their children that stealing is OK? If what you say is true wouldn't the crime rate be most of the population of Earth?

If some guy wanted to kill my wife and he asked me where she is I should just tell him? If my wife asked me if she looked fat in these jeans I should tell her that she looked fat? My kid asked me if he is good in baseball I should tell him that he sucks? These are things that should make them feel better?

Animals have intelligence as well, do they need to decided which car to buy? That doesn't matter, they still have their own choices as well, who to mate with, where to live, what to eat and so on.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I say that you have issues when that you say these broad general statements like MOST people choose sin and most of their decisions are bad. How can you really think these kind of things, look at your self. How many times in the day do you think of doing bad things over good things? When you walk into a store do you steal more than you buy? When you talk with someone do you lie more than tell the truth? How many people do you think lie more than they tell the truth, steal more than the buy and so on?

Saying that most parents do not teach their children good morals is also a way over generalization, it may be that it doesn't fit your standard of morals but they still teach their children right from wrong. I do not see more parents teaching their children that ling is good or nothing at all, do you? Do most parents just let their children do anything that they want? Do most parents teach their children that stealing is OK? If what you say is true wouldn't the crime rate be most of the population of Earth?

If some guy wanted to kill my wife and he asked me where she is I should just tell him? If my wife asked me if she looked fat in these jeans I should tell her that she looked fat? My kid asked me if he is good in baseball I should tell him that he sucks? These are things that should make them feel better?

Animals have intelligence as well, do they need to decided which car to buy? That doesn't matter, they still have their own choices as well, who to mate with, where to live, what to eat and so on.

Now he is not going to talk to you. 😛

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now he is not going to talk to you. 😛

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I say that you have issues when that you say these broad general statements like MOST people choose sin and most of their decisions are bad. How can you really think these kind of things, look at your self. How many times in the day do you think of doing bad things over good things? When you walk into a store do you steal more than you buy? When you talk with someone do you lie more than tell the truth? How many people do you think lie more than they tell the truth, steal more than the buy and so on?

Saying that most parents do not teach their children good morals is also a way over generalization, it may be that it doesn't fit your standard of morals but they still teach their children right from wrong. I do not see more parents teaching their children that ling is good or nothing at all, do you? Do most parents just let their children do anything that they want? Do most parents teach their children that stealing is OK? If what you say is true wouldn't the crime rate be most of the population of Earth?

If some guy wanted to kill my wife and he asked me where she is I should just tell him? If my wife asked me if she looked fat in these jeans I should tell her that she looked fat? My kid asked me if he is good in baseball I should tell him that he sucks? These are things that should make them feel better?

Animals have intelligence as well, do they need to decided which car to buy? That doesn't matter, they still have their own choices as well, who to mate with, where to live, what to eat and so on.

Ok, one last time, since you didn't seem to read my post.

I said MANY parents, I did not say MOST or ALL. Please read my post again. Here is the part of my post you neglected to read:

I never said parents don't have to teach their children. I'm a strong supporter of parents teaching children good morals. The problem is that many DON'T. Am I saying no parents teach their children? No. Am I saying the majority don't? No. I'm saying MANY don't. All that means is a large number don't.

And it's true, a large number don't. There are 6 billion on this earth. A large number doesn't even have to be a quarter of that.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Ok, one last time, since you didn't seem to read my post.

I said MANY parents, I did not say MOST or ALL. Please read my post again. Here is the part of my post you neglected to read:

And it's true, a large number don't. There are 6 billion on this earth. A large number doesn't even have to be a quarter of that.

Now lets look at this one

Originally posted by Bat Dude
I believe humans are wonderful beings God created, but that we choose NOT to do what is right more often than we do.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
They may follow God's plan of love and care, and spread the love and care, or they can kill and rape and steal and lie and cheat, and sadly, most choose to do the latter, which is why our world is so messed up now. It's not because of God, it's because of man.

So if I understand you correctly most of the world teaches their children morals but we most of the world chooses to ignore them? Doesn't this sound a little screwed up view of the world?

I really don't wish to debate or argue, but I'll post again.

That isn't too far-fetched... To believe that many or most people at some point in their lives choose to ignore morals that were taught to them. I've done this before. I'm not blameless, but I know now that this isn't the way to live. And especially teenagers. What do you think goes on at parties? Sin (unmarried sex, drunkenness, etc.) And how do you think they get to those parties? By lying to their parents.

So yes, I stand that at some point in their lives, most people will choose to forget their morals and sin. I don't think that's too far-fetched to believe.

There are sins that people don't even think are sins, but they are. Drunkenness is a sin (stated in the Bible). How many good people get drunk sometimes? I bet many of them don't even know it's a sin, but it is, and it counts towards the "most sin".

Premarital sex is a sin. Some don't think it's a sin, but it is (stated in the Bible). How many good people have sex with their girl/boyfriends? I bet many of them don't even know it's a sin, but it is.

We may not know it's a sin, but we choose to do it, and thus, we choose to sin.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
I really don't wish to debate or argue, but I'll post again.

That isn't too far-fetched... To believe that many or most people at some point in their lives choose to ignore morals that were taught to them. I've done this before. I'm not blameless, but I know now that this isn't the way to live. And especially teenagers. What do you think goes on at parties? Sin (unmarried sex, drunkenness, etc.) And how do you think they get to those parties? By lying to their parents.

So yes, I stand that at some point in their lives, most people will choose to forget their morals and sin. I don't think that's too far-fetched to believe.

There are sins that people don't even think are sins, but they are. Drunkenness is a sin (stated in the Bible). How many good people get drunk sometimes? I bet many of them don't even know it's a sin, but it is, and it counts towards the "most sin".

Premarital sex is a sin. Some don't think it's a sin, but it is (stated in the Bible). How many good people have sex with their girl/boyfriends? I bet many of them don't even know it's a sin, but it is.

We may not know it's a sin, but we choose to do it, and thus, we choose to sin.

The way that you make it sound that if you lie even once to your parents or who ever for what ever reason you have just thrown out all that you have ever been taught your whole life.

You are also placing YOUR morals and definitions of them onto others, and by that standard then yes you are correct then most of the word about 2/3 are sinners just by being alive and not believing in your god. The rest become sinners when the are just babies and lie to their parents about something that they did. Guess the world is just so F'ed up because we all do not follow your god. When the countries were about 90% Christan everything was so wonderful and perfect teaching the word of God, kids didn't lie and no one was ever raped or killed.

The point is even with your views of right and wrong 99% of the time people are not lying, cheating and stealing. Some make a singular bad choice and for you they threw their life away.

If you don't want to argue about it then why do you keep replying? Hey I don't agree with you sad view of people just because they don't believe the way that you do so that is fine but I'm tired of the doomsayers like you preaching that the world is F'ed up because we don't follow your god.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
This is the issue, you are referring to single or maybe only a few events, the way you put it is that they lie, cheat and still more times in their life then they don't. I have been to hundreds of parties and not all deal with drugs, sex and ling to your parents. I have known so many kids that go to parties because they tell their parents more than the ones that have to lie to them.

The way that you make it sound that if you lie even once to your parents or who ever for what ever reason you have just thrown out all that you have ever been taught your whole life.

You are also placing YOUR morals and definitions of them onto others, and by that standard then yes you are correct then most of the word about 2/3 are sinners just by being alive and not believing in your god. The rest become sinners when the are just babies and lie to their parents about something that they did. Guess the world is just so F'ed up because we all do not follow your god. When the countries were about 90% Christan everything was so wonderful and perfect teaching the word of God, kids didn't lie and no one was ever raped or killed.

The point is even with your views of right and wrong 99% of the time people are not lying, cheating and stealing. Some make a singular bad choice and for you they threw their life away.

Not throw their life away, but certainly upset God. And maybe it's just me, but I try my best NOT to upset God. Like I said, EVERYONE sins, it's about how you learn from your sins and if you make the effort to improve with God. In Christianity, we believe that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross allows ours sins to be forgiven if we sincerely ask God and repent. The next step is not doing those sins again. I believe with God, even the strongest sinful urges can be conquered. He helped me end a 2 year sex addiction, so He can help others conquer their sins...

It is sad that you think that, god didn't help you with your problem you did it by yourself or with the help of your friends. You still are glossing over the fact that you think the world is corrupt and sinful, hell why are you even talking to me since I'm an atheist? I'm one of your biggest sinners of all, I have no morals or values to speak of according to you and teach my children to lie, cheat and steal. I will burn in hell for all time just because I don't believe in him but for someone that can rape, murder and steal and then repent later will go to heaven, now how is this not a hateful being?

I get tired of hearing the same BS again and again that their are no morals in today's life which is complete and udder BS to the highest order.

What a useless debate.

Originally posted by Genesis
What a useless debate.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
It is sad that you think that, god didn't help you with your problem you did it by yourself or with the help of your friends. You still are glossing over the fact that you think the world is corrupt and sinful, hell why are you even talking to me since I'm an atheist? I'm one of your biggest sinners of all, I have no morals or values to speak of according to you and teach my children to lie, cheat and steal. I will burn in hell for all time just because I don't believe in him but for someone that can rape, murder and steal and then repent later will go to heaven, now how is this not a hateful being?

I get tired of hearing the same BS again and again that their are no morals in today's life which is complete and udder BS to the highest order.

There's a difference between repenting and asking forgiveness... Asking forgiveness means that you are forgiven of your sin. Repenting includes renouncing that way of life. Repenting for a sin means you never wish to do that sin again willingly. So a murderer repenting means they would never want to murder again.

Atheists can most certainly have morals. Sometimes, an atheist can be more moral than a "Christian". But the thing about atheism is that it paints a picture that "if God exists He is a terrible, hateful being", when He is not. Just because there is hardship and sin in this world doesn't mean it's God's fault and that you should blame God. God gave us a free will to do as we want. He did give us control of the world, after all.

The morals of Athiests are a joke, a house without a foundation. However, the morals of the religious are also a joke, the actions of the self-serving, not morality at all.

^how so, morals dont come from relegion but ethical egotism/inherent empathy/equality/nature of human beings collectively. as such, morals of atheists are no joke.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
There's a difference between repenting and asking forgiveness... Asking forgiveness means that you are forgiven of your sin. Repenting includes renouncing that way of life. Repenting for a sin means you never wish to do that sin again willingly. So a murderer repenting means they would never want to murder again.

Atheists can most certainly have morals. Sometimes, an atheist can be more moral than a "Christian". But the thing about atheism is that it paints a picture that "if God exists He is a terrible, hateful being", when He is not. Just because there is hardship and sin in this world doesn't mean it's God's fault and that you should blame God. God gave us a free will to do as we want. He did give us control of the world, after all.

So here is the thing, God is all powerful and can do anything that he wants so why wouldn't he just create Earth to be without pain and suffering as he did in Heaven? People still seem to have their free will in Heaven or is that taken away, there is no pain or suffering in Heaven and you live for all time so why would he need to create a place that would cause pain and suffering? Now you may say that it is a test well it seems that you can be kicked out of Heaven as well so you can pass the test but still fail in Heaven. If you still have your free will in Heaven you can still make the wrong choice so again why would God need to create a place that will cause pain and suffering?

Originally posted by Nephthys
The morals of Athiests are a joke, a house without a foundation. However, the morals of the religious are also a joke, the actions of the self-serving, not morality at all.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
This is the point, a person that rapes, steals and took the life on one of God's creations that caused pain and suffering to all involved can repent and be cleared of all their sins but for someone like me that has done good to others all my life and have never done those things will suffer for all time just because I do not believe in him? Now how is this a loving god?

So here is the thing, God is all powerful and can do anything that he wants so why wouldn't he just create Earth to be without pain and suffering as he did in Heaven? People still seem to have their free will in Heaven or is that taken away, there is no pain or suffering in Heaven and you live for all time so why would he need to create a place that would cause pain and suffering? Now you may say that it is a test well it seems that you can be kicked out of Heaven as well so you can pass the test but still fail in Heaven. If you still have your free will in Heaven you can still make the wrong choice so again why would God need to create a place that will cause pain and suffering?

As stated in the Bible, you go to Heaven based on faith, not on works. Trust in God, not doing good deeds. Sure, good deeds will come naturally if you trust in God, but those deeds aren't what get you to Heaven.