Originally posted by ankur29
Daken being faster than logan is highly deabatable, he calls logan slow but gets tagged by logan:
Well for 1, that could just be experience at play. He talks shit slips, gets tagged.
He snatches the sword, talks shit, gets tagged... Not necessarily his speed failing him utterly there.
And secondly, heh, I'm not actually trying to argue that Daken's faster than Logan. But there once again should be no real argument needed to suggest he's as fast. 😕
Originally posted by jinzin
Well for 1, that could just be experience at play. He talks shit slips, gets tagged.
He snatches the sword, talks shit, gets tagged... Not necessarily his speed failing him utterly there.And secondly, heh, I'm not actually trying to argue that Daken's faster than Logan. But there once again should be no real argument needed to suggest he's as fast. 😕
daken's quite experiened , he's expert martial artist and is over 60 years old? logan says "he's the best at what we do"
why do not accredit daken on panel statement that logan is slow, hence daken is faster? you accredited SM saying that logan " he's as fast as me , if not faster"
don't say there is no evidence to show daken could be faster , there's the fight with SM & him dominating logan in their fight.
Originally posted by ankur29
daken's quite experiened , he's expert martial artist and is over 60 years old? logan says "he's the best at what we do"why do not accredit daken on panel statement that logan is slow, hence daken is faster? you accredited SM saying that logan " he's as fast as me , if not faster"
don't say there is no evidence to show daken could be faster , there's the fight with SM & him dominating logan in their fight.
🤨 So then... more argument for argument's sake eh?
I don't know whether or not Daken and Logan are at the exact same level of speed, I don't know if Logan's faster by a slim margin, I don't know if Daken's faster by a slim margin... There's honeslty, evidence to both sides of the debate. THAT'S NOT THE POINT... The point, if you recall, was that Daken and Logan are within the same range of speed and there should really be no question to that. Stop trying to offset what we're actually talking about.
Originally posted by jinzin
🤨 So then... more argument for argument's sake eh?I don't know whether or not Daken and Logan are at the exact same level of speed, I don't know if Logan's faster by a slim margin, I don't know if Daken's faster by a slim margin... There's honeslty, evidence to both sides of the debate. THAT'S NOT THE POINT... The point, if you recall, was that Daken and Logan are within the same range of speed and there should really be no question to that. Stop trying to offset what we're actually talking about.
I am not argument for argument's sake, I am trying to exploit you as a hypocrite
Here is what you said:
"A flat out insinuation of hesitation on Spiderman's speed against Logan's own. Spiderman has not had many fights, if any that I can recall where he's had to question his speed against his opponents at the street level"
When I gave examples of other SM insinuations that you correctly pointed out were not backed up by "on panel evidecce" you said
"Slight problem there... Those insinuations aren't backed by on panel evidence to support them. Wolverine's speed and Daken's speed IS..... Which part of that even makes it close to the same? Or do you not consider that difference to be important?"
You know what thats fine.
Now let me see it from your view
SM says Logan is as fast as him, your happy with this as there are feats that show Logan easily replicating SM speed feats and matching them in their fight, fine let follow your logic , backed up by on panel evidence so this insinuation is correct.
But
Daken basically twice flat out implies he's faster than Logan but you don't agree with? And suddenly the evidence from their fight (between Logan and Daken) where Logan is dominated by Daken isn't sufficient for you, even when Daken reaches blade before Logan from an equal distance from it as Logan is insufficient on panel evidence for you to come to the conclusion that Logan is in fact slower than Daken like he said, how is this not an identical situation 😐 to the SM fight with wolverine
In conclusion why is it fair to accept on panel evidence supporting Logan is as fast as Spiderman but not accept on panel evidence that Daken is truly faster than his father 😖 ???
On the bright side at least you agreed that it could be possible that Daken is faster than Logan 🙂
Also this should be consistent with your logic
On panel Daken says he is no faster than Deadpool , but he says he¡¦s faster than Logan who is as fast as SM ¡K( this is all according to what you have said , claims supported by "on panel evidence" ftw )
Daken's speed = Deadpool
Daken's Speed > Logan's
Logan's speed = SM
So Deadpool & Daken > Logan & SM in terms of speed!
Lets see how many people agree with that ...
Originally posted by ankur29He didn't say Logan was as fast, he kinda questioned himself and said, "No... NO ONE'S faster!!!" Just so you know. 🙂
I am not argument for argument's sake, I am trying to exploit you as a hypocriteHere is what you said:
"A flat out insinuation of hesitation on Spiderman's speed against Logan's own. Spiderman has not had many fights, if any that I can recall where he's had to question his speed against his opponents at the street level"
When I gave examples of other SM insinuations that you correctly pointed out were not backed up by "on panel evidecce" you said
"Slight problem there... Those insinuations aren't backed by on panel evidence to support them. Wolverine's speed and Daken's speed IS..... Which part of that even makes it close to the same? Or do you not consider that difference to be important?"
You know what thats fine.
Now let me see it from your view
SM says Logan is as fast as him, your happy with this as there are feats that show Logan easily replicating SM speed feats and matching them in their fight, fine let follow your logic , backed up by on panel evidence so this insinuation is correct.
But
Daken basically twice flat out implies he's faster than Logan but you don't agree with? And suddenly the evidence from their fight (between Logan and Daken) where Logan is dominated by Daken isn't sufficient for you, even when Daken reaches blade before Logan from an equal distance from it as Logan is insufficient on panel evidence for you to come to the conclusion that Logan is in fact slower than Daken like he said, how is this not an identical situation 😐 to the SM fight with wolverine
In conclusion why is it fair to accept on panel evidence supporting Logan is as fast as Spiderman but not accept on panel evidence that Daken is truly faster than his father 😖 ???
On the bright side at least you agreed that it could be possible that Daken is faster than Logan 🙂
Also this should be consistent with your logic
On panel Daken says he is no faster than Deadpool , but he says he¡¦s faster than Logan who is as fast as SM ¡K( this is all according to what you have said , claims supported by "on panel evidence" ftw )
Daken's speed = Deadpool
Daken's Speed > Logan's
Logan's speed = SM
So Deadpool & Daken > Logan & SM in terms of speed!Lets see how many people agree with that ...
Originally posted by ankur29
jinzin thinks logans is as fast as SM based on that insinuation, and i am considering his logic
Jinzin is saying that based on wolverines feats, fights with spiderman and spidermans own statement that they are within the same speed class, however he believes spiderman is faster just marginally so that it would not be a factor in a fight between the two.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully he not, you kinda missed his pointJinzin is saying that based on wolverines feats, fights with spiderman and spidermans own statement that they are within the same speed class, however he believes spiderman is faster just marginally so that it would not be a factor in a fight between the two.
SM never stated they are "in the same speed class" , he said "he's as fast as me , if not faster" or summin similar to that
Originally posted by ankur29
SM never stated they are "in the same speed class" , he said "he's as fast as me , if not faster" or summin similar to that
also spiderman said is he faster then me, no no one is faster then me.
Originally posted by ankur29
I am not argument for argument's sake, I am trying to exploit you as a hypocrite
And you're utterly failing as you have yet to accurately assess my position, instead relying heavily on your own strawman interpretations of what I've said.
Originally posted by ankur29
Here is what you said:"A flat out insinuation of hesitation on Spiderman's speed against Logan's own. Spiderman has not had many fights, if any that I can recall where he's had to question his speed against his opponents at the street level"
Yeah, I know I said that; Thank you. I ALSO had several paragraphs before that point to help make it more effective AND accurate. 😐
Originally posted by ankur29
When I gave examples of other SM insinuations that you correctly pointed out were not backed up by "on panel evidecce" you said"Slight problem there... Those insinuations aren't backed by on panel evidence to support them. Wolverine's speed and Daken's speed IS..... Which part of that even makes it close to the same? Or do you not consider that difference to be important?"
You know what thats fine.
Originally posted by ankur29
Now let me see it from your viewSM says Logan is as fast as him, your happy with this as there are feats that show Logan easily replicating SM speed feats and matching them in their fight, fine let follow your logic , backed up by on panel evidence so this insinuation is correct.
But
Daken basically twice flat out implies he's faster than Logan but you don't agree with? And suddenly the evidence from their fight (between Logan and Daken) where Logan is dominated by Daken isn't sufficient for you, even when Daken reaches blade before Logan from an equal distance from it as Logan is insufficient on panel evidence for you to come to the conclusion that Logan is in fact slower than Daken like he said, how is this not an identical situation 😐 to the SM fight with wolverine
Really?..... This is the best you could manage to come up with?
You see, when it comes to Logan and Spiderman, both have an enormous library of on panel feats displaying speed in combat, reflexes, etc... We can more easily see how they compare to one another over literally thousands of appearances between them; in generic speed feats, high end speed feats, ABC comparisons, and furthermore far more direct comparisons to boot.
AND, none of those comparisons have factors about them similar to Father/Son CIS, pheromones, or Romulus ridden bullshit.
As I stated before I don't know who is faster between Logan and Daken because there's evidence on BOTH SIDES.... and neither do you.
Yeah, you have Daken saying Wolverine's slower than himself during in-fight trash talk, but in one example, it's after using his pheromones and getting in multiple wounds on Logan, two directly through his chest, in their first encounter where Wolverine was trying to reach out to Daken. The X-Men fight is far more appropriate to display any speed advantage but it was faster by what? Inches? Which may have been influenced by his height/reach advantage anyway.
Wolverine has also shown good displays as when Daken tried to cut Logan down with the Muramasa claws and Wolverine dodged the swipes, grabbed hold of Daken's hands, and took him down.
And then there's the facts that he had no speed advantage over Cyber in combat and was taken down far faster than boneclaw Wolverine was, that Wolverine's performed better against Spiderman than he has without pheromones, and that he flat out ALSO said he wasn't faster than Deadpool, who doesn't have feats of speed exceeding those of Logan himself.
Me reserving judgement on who's faster when you have multiple other factors involved in their comparisons AND have evidence which lends itself to both sides of the debate isn't hypocrisy, it's intelligence.
I don't ASSUME that trash talk is the same as an observation one keeps to themselves you shouldn't either.
Originally posted by ankur29
In conclusion why is it fair to accept on panel evidence supporting Logan is as fast as Spiderman but not accept on panel evidence that Daken is truly faster than his father 😖 ???
Originally posted by ankur29And yet somehow I stayed a hypocrite huh? Just proves my observation in your arguing for argument's sake.
On the bright side at least you agreed that it could be possible that Daken is faster than Logan 🙂
Originally posted by ankur29
Also this should be consistent with your logicOn panel Daken says he is no faster than Deadpool , but he says he¡¦s faster than Logan who is as fast as SM ¡K( this is all according to what you have said , claims supported by "on panel evidence" ftw )
Daken's speed = Deadpool
Daken's Speed > Logan's
Logan's speed = SM
So Deadpool & Daken > Logan & SM in terms of speed!Lets see how many people agree with that ...
Or rather strawman ftw.. 🙄
I've actually only said that Wolverine's in the same range as Spiderman's speed. Spiderman's faster, but the margin is so infanticimal that the difference isn't going to be notable in a fight AND EVERYONE KNOWS THIS.... so you're strawman's a piece of crap right off the bat and the position you've assumed here has little credibility. .
According to my ACTUAL logic and not the crap you've shoved into my mouth.
Daken's speed =? Deadpool... possibly.
Daken's Speed >/</=? Logans... remember, you're the only one saying Daken's without a doubt faster right now, not me.
Logan's speed< Spiderman...
So Deapool and Daken >/</=? Logan< Spiderman.
Now if you want to continue to play this little game I can certainly make up your position for you as well in that handbooks must be an accurate and certain display of speed and strength regardless of what a character as done on panel, or assume you think Deadpool is without a doubt faster than Wolverine....
The simple fact of the matter is that the combat speed of everyone of these guys is within the same range of one another regardless of who has any minuscule advantage and that any fights between them wouldn't come down to sheer speed but other factors instead. There should be no question that Daken's within the same range as Wolverine, and that either of them could tangle with Spiderman in h2h.. So unless Toxin is certainly faster than Parker (and he hasn't shown himself to be) then speed isn't an issue in this fight. 😐
SM has more raw speed than daken and wolverine and deadpool, i don't think the difference is marginal however his very inferior skill and trainig and there wealth of it makes it "appear" as if they are as fast as him to him in combat
i.e. bruce fighting usain bolt , usain bolt is well faster but bruce lee will be all over him
in a footrace in a straight line i am 100% sure SM would pace them
jinzin , you have convinced me daken is as fast as logan.
"Yeah, you have Daken saying Wolverine's slower than himself during in-fight trash talk, but in one example, it's after using his pheromones and getting in multiple wounds on Logan, two directly through his chest"
But how did you know he used pheromones at all on Logan when he didn’t have green bubbles above his head, he coudl of simply been where his enemy wasn't?
do using the pheromones result in the disappearing act, how is that different to him not being there when SM shot web at him SM also did not have th green bubles at that point,
"In their first encounter where Wolverine was trying to reach out to Daken". ..Reach out by swiping for dakens head?
"The X-Men fight is far more appropriate to display any speed advantage but it was faster by what? Inches? Which may have been influenced by his height/reach advantage anyway":
"Wolverine has also shown good displays as when Daken tried to cut Logan down with the Muramasa claws and Wolverine dodged the swipes, grabbed hold of Daken's hands, and took him down":
i thought we were dsicussing raw speed, i didn't know you meant combat speed, i don't think SM is superior to Daken/Logan but equal in this area but if he had MA training i think he would be superior
Originally posted by ankur29
SM has more raw speed than daken and wolverine and deadpool, i don't think the difference is marginal however his very inferior skill and trainig and there wealth of it makes it "appear" as if they are as fast as him to him in combati.e. bruce fighting usain bolt , usain bolt is well faster but bruce lee will be all over him
in a footrace in a straight line i am 100% sure SM would pace them
Jinzin is referring to combat speed in which spiderman is marginally faster. If you compare wolverine feats to spiderman there interchangable. Logan asside from spiderman is one of the few characters at there level who has true speed blizting feats and not just one but many.
edit dident realize you dident know he ment combat speed.
