Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wonder Man at his best beats up Namor at his best, but on average it's a pretty close fight with Namor getting the edge, underwater at least, due to consistency if nothing else. That's up until the last decade. Things have become more convoluted since. Namor looked noticeably superior in one of their fights then Wonder Man became more confident again and was at a level where he'd wreck everyone this side of Thor/Superman not to mention the other powers he unlocked.
This sums up this entire thread. Nothing else need be said. Well done Rage.
Originally posted by tkitna
So because Xemu wrapped the barbell around Ben, you assume he helped Simon lift it? Nowhere did the book say that. As a matter of fact, Xemu even mentions that Simon had fully recovered and would take care of the matter then. Your seeing it as you want to see it. Ben was tooling him because Xemu was mind controlling him. Not sure, but i'm betting Xemu isn't the best H2H fighter around.
Xemu wasn't fighting him physically, he was using his TK/TP to help Simon because thing was waxing his ass. Xemu mentions on panel that he was complete control over inanimate objects. That would include lifting them, which he's done before.
All this while Thing admitted to holding back as not to hurt Simon.
Was Namor supporting this from underwater? I cant see the scans, but i'm guessing he probably was.
A writer wanting to get a chuckle out of his audience and have a running joke. Nobody took that encounter seriously. I'm surprised your stooping to that level. She-Hulk punched Sentry right in the mouth and he didn't fight back. I'm sure you think that Jen can beat him up too right? Doom blasted Bob while Bob was 'angsty' as you said, and what did Stark say to him? He warned Doom that if he tried something like that again, Sentry would kill him. Same would happen to Namor.
Not sure what this response was to as I didn't go back and read. If it was Hercules, then no, I don't believe Namor can take him. Underwater he would win some, on land, no. That's just my opinion. I don't have all if their encounters to base it off of though.
I really don't know how much an island weighs. Tell us.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
I remember a old Avengers issue where Namor was restrained underwater while Hercules was able to push through it to Namor's surprise.
That was a low point in Namor's life though. Hercules snapped him out of it later.
Namor has tooled Herc underwater so the point is moot.
Originally posted by zopzopThe point isn't moot. In the water Hercules is stronger than Namor while Namor should win a fight due to his mobility. My point was that Hercules is stronger but that don't mean he'll win a fight in the depths.
Yeah, it was when they brought back Jean Grey.That was a low point in Namor's life though. Hercules snapped him out of it later.
Namor has tooled Herc underwater so the point is moot.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
The point isn't moot. In the water Hercules is stronger than Namor while Namor should win a fight due to his mobility. My point was that Hercules is stronger but that don't mean he'll win a fight in the depths.
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i'd say herc is the stronger, even under water, but the difference is very minor and certainly open for debate. namor would kill him under water for multiple reasons. pretty sure namor has ko'd hulk underwater so that would be a point in namor's favour. very close, regardless. namor is a true beast below the waves....
Don't think Namor is as close to Herc in strength as most think. While Namor is super strong, wouldn't consider him high Herald strong like Herc is. Can anyone see Namor doing something like this to Thor?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/18519/557528-thor_blood_oath__4_02.jpg
I can't.
Originally posted by zopzopBut Simon COULDN'T deal with him and Thing went after Xemu again and he fled, then Thing freed Simon from the mind control.
Xemu wasn't fighting him physically, he was using his TK/TP to help Simon because thing was waxing his ass. Xemu mentions on panel that he was complete control over inanimate objects. That would include lifting them, which he's done before.
All this while Thing admitted to holding back as not to hurt Simon.
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Was Xemu helping Simon earlier in the book when he was working out with the same dumb bell that Ben could barely lift? Its not about Ben out fighting a mind controlled Simon here, its the fact that Simon is depicted as being much stronger then Ben, and he is.
Except it happened AGAIN when he fought BM with the rest of the Avengers. So it happened vs Hercules, vs Namor, vs BM (who Namor fought by the way and BM admitted he won via a lucky punch). But the only time it's PIS is when Namor does it? Whatever.
BM's a puss if he had to admit that it took a lucky punch to put him down. I lost respect for the character now.
Then maybe you should before lowballing Namor? Every time they fought, Namor never got his sh|t pushed in vs Herc the way Simon did. Ever.
Namor never fought a crazed/bloodlusted Hercules that was shot with hydra tipped bullets either.
Hint, they weigh MORE than 50000 tons.
You know this how? Also, was Namor supporting Utopia whilst underwater? I am curious about that? Was Wonder Man supporting it in the air being assisted by his Jet Packs? Just curious.
Originally posted by carver9
Don't think Namor is as close to Herc in strength as most think. While Namor is super strong, wouldn't consider him high Herald strong like Herc is. Can anyone see Namor doing something like this to Thor?http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/18519/557528-thor_blood_oath__4_02.jpg
I can't.
underwater i could, no problem. herc is quite a bit stronger on land. underwater is a different story. marvel's been pretty consistent with his strength portrayals in water.
Originally posted by tkitna
Lol. I forgot the dog bit him. Isnt that Normie though? If so, it makes sense.
It is Normie.
But at the same time Robert had been out of the Negative Zone for a short time when him and Hulk came across the Void so he would be weakened a fair bit for a while anyway considering the negative affect it has on him. Plus like you mentioned Normie is Normie so it isn't all that bad considering the 2 factors that come to play.
Originally posted by leonidasThe last time these two fought to my knowledge Namor pretty much agreed to the fact that Hercules is his better on land.
underwater i could, no problem. herc is quite a bit stronger on land. underwater is a different story. marvel's been pretty consistent with his strength portrayals in water.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
The last time these two fought to my knowledge Namor pretty much agreed to the fact that Hercules is his better on land.
yeah, they skirmished a couple times. once namor had herc in a choke hold underwater that herc couldn't break but he used skill to get out and the fight pretty much ended iirc....
namor has scored at least 2 wins over hulk underwater though. herc hasn't had a definitive win over hulk on land, though he had the better of their first meeting for what that's worth.
namor has also easily held his own against thor underwater and he and hulk have been referred to as the strongest mortals on earth while they fought underwater. namor is a monster in the ocean. on land he has some mixed results though...
Originally posted by tkitna
Was Xemu helping Simon earlier in the book when he was working out with the same dumb bell that Ben could barely lift? Its not about Ben out fighting a mind controlled Simon here, its the fact that Simon is depicted as being much stronger then Ben, and he is.
Ben has lifted a Brownstone, supported an oil rig, and held together NYC's largest suspension bridge. All by himself.
BM's a puss if he had to admit that it took a lucky punch to put him down. I lost respect for the character now.
Namor never fought a crazed/bloodlusted Hercules that was shot with hydra tipped bullets either.
You know this how? Also, was Namor supporting Utopia whilst underwater? I am curious about that? Was Wonder Man supporting it in the air being assisted by his Jet Packs? Just curious.
Namor was indeed supporting the island while underwater and as we've seen he's already lifted Hydrobase from the bottom of the Hudson.
Wonder Man never supported anything. In the air or otherwise. The Lava Men pillar was supporting Hydrobase. Wonder Man AND Invisible Woman were balancing the island on the support pillar.
Namor did it on his own, TWICE. Wonder Man had IW's help BALANCING the island on the support pillar made up of Lava Men.
See the difference?
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
It is Normie.But at the same time Robert had been out of the Negative Zone for a short time when him and Hulk came across the Void so he would be weakened a fair bit for a while anyway considering the negative affect it has on him. Plus like you mentioned Normie is Normie so it isn't all that bad considering the 2 factors that come to play.
Lol, Normie has the same powerset as Sentry, so its not a shock he broke skin. That whole thing is a non issue.
Originally posted by zopzopIs he now?
Ben has lifted a Brownstone, supported an oil rig, and held together NYC's largest suspension bridge. All by himself.
That's great. Wonder Man casually choked out Rhulk. Powersets fluctuate, but on an average, Simon will always be stronger then Ben.
You shouldn't though. Because he flash KOed Sentry and sent him into orbit.
The KO is debatable and all you really need to remember is who got carried off the battlefield. When Sentry took the kid gloves off, he was having no issues with Namor what so ever. Namor couldn't even mount an offensive attack besides throwing a bus. If BM said it took everything he had to down Namor, that's a terrible showing for him.
Hydra blood is POISON. It killed an immortal centaur. Herc wasn't amped by it at all.
He was crazed and out of his mind and was trying to kill.
I know this because I'm not an idiot. That's how.
Don't sell yourself short.
Namor was indeed supporting the island while underwater and as we've seen he's already lifted Hydrobase from the bottom of the Hudson.
So he lifted something and supported something in the water where objects tend to be much lighter? Gotcha.
Wonder Man never supported anything. In the air or otherwise. The Lava Men pillar was supporting Hydrobase. Wonder Man AND Invisible Woman were balancing the island on the support pillar.Namor did it on his own, TWICE. Wonder Man had IW's help BALANCING the island on the support pillar made up of Lava Men.
See the difference?
So Simon was just balancing the island and its not a lifting feat at all? Why is it being brought up?
Originally posted by tkitna
That's great. Wonder Man casually choked out Rhulk. Powersets fluctuate, but on an average, Simon will always be stronger then Ben.
The KO is debatable and all you really need to remember is who got carried off the battlefield. When Sentry took the kid gloves off, he was having no issues with Namor what so ever. Namor couldn't even mount an offensive attack besides throwing a bus. If BM said it took everything he had to down Namor, that's a terrible showing for him.
He was crazed and out of his mind and was trying to kill.
Don't sell yourself short.
So he lifted something and supported something in the water where objects tend to be much lighter? Gotcha.
So Simon was just balancing the island and its not a lifting feat at all? Why is it being brought up?
His only quantifiable solo lifting feat worth mentioning was supporting that press that was coming down on them at 50000 tons of pressure, for what? A minute or two? And straining his @$$ of doing it.
