Originally posted by jaden101****in EH.
By his own admission, he slept in the same bed as some of the children who stayed at Neverland. This is a huge error in judgement. If it were a regular non-famous adult who had children staying at his house and sleeping in the same bed then I would question whether or not you would have the same opinion of them.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, MJ knew what he was doing when he made those "choices", he's a big boy, and he knew that people would talk about him when he did the things he did. I have nothing against him personally, but if someone acts outrageous, people are gonna notice and talk. It's not like I am pointing at a kid with Downs syndrome and laughing at them.What if this were a Kobe Bryant thread, and I made a rape joke? Or if it were a Richard Gere thread, and I made a gerbil joke? Or if it were a Will Smith thread and I made a joke about swingers? Would it be the same? Would you quote me and scold me then?
I feel like an ass for it, solely for the reason that he is dead, but that's it.
I'd say the same about anybody, because what you are saying is that he did some outlandish stuff and shouldn't have expected people to not talk. I am not contradicting that.
If you hang a baby over a balcony, people will talk. People always do, they're nosey idiots.
My point is, there's a difference between talking and harrassing. Talking and involving yourself. Talking and driving what many believed to be a man with the best, kindest of intentions, to become a recluse, a shut-in and a target for every manner of vulture. All this, based on rumours, half-truths and a weird desire to break a man down to pieces for no other reason than difference.
THAT is what's wrong. I'll say the same about absolutely anybody.
Richard Gere has suffered jokes, he hasn't suffered like M.J. has. None of the people you mentioned have. So don't even label them as the same.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
****in EH.
Still got time to dust off the pom poms, huh?
1) It's "****in' A.", as in, "****in' awesome.".
2) I already replied to that, here it is:
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
My opinion would be the same."That's a bit weird.". Weird because it's not usually done.
So what? It doesn't mean anything. Lots of people do weird things that I don't understand. As long as nobody got hurt or abused unwillingly, who cares?
The saying is "Innocent until proven guilty", he's never been proven guilty and there's a lot of evidence to suggest people were after his cash or to set him up. The pay off damages the parents' case more than Jackson's case. There's a chance people in the media would have even paid more than Jackson to see them release the info and evidence, than he paid to supposedly shut them up. So that also goes against them.
People say "Ultimately, nobody knows besides Jackson and those kids.". True, so let's accept what facts there are. Let's stop digging "BUT he COULD have done it...". Because where does that get us? Nowhere. It's dumb.
See if you can do a bit better than cheering for someone else. Give me your reply to that.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriElvis died on the toilet, what a ****ing loser. You got a problem with that?
I'd say the same about anybody, because what you are saying is that he did some outlandish stuff and shouldn't have expected people to not talk. I am not contradicting that.If you hang a baby over a balcony, people will talk. People always do, they're nosey idiots.
My point is, there's a difference between talking and harrassing. Talking and involving yourself. Talking and driving what many believed to be a man with the best, kindest of intentions, to become a recluse, a shut-in and a target for every manner of vulture. All this, based on rumours, half-truths and a weird desire to break a man down to pieces for no other reason than difference.
THAT is what's wrong. I'll say the same about absolutely anybody.
Richard Gere has suffered jokes, he hasn't suffered like M.J. has. None of the people you mentioned have. So don't even label them as the same.
Still got time to dust off the pom poms, huh?
1) It's "****in' A.", as in, "****in' awesome.".
2) I already replied to that, here it is:
See if you can do a bit better than cheering for someone else. Give me your reply to that.
-AC [/B]
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Elvis died on the toilet, what a ****ing loser. You got a problem with that?
If you can't formulate a decent, on topic reply besides cheering for someone who is saying what you couldn't possibly have come up with yourself, then I have a suggestion;
Mosie on back to the OTF and create more immature threads about who could beat who in a fight, who you'd have on your side in a fight, or something that continues your ravenous obsession with Fight Club or fighting in general. Because clearly this thread is beyond you.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriThe saying is "Innocent until proven guilty", he's never been proven guilty and there's a lot of evidence to suggest people were after his cash or to set him up. The pay off damages the parents' case more than Jackson's case. There's a chance people in the media would have even paid more than Jackson to see them release the info and evidence, than he paid to supposedly shut them up. So that also goes against them.
People say "Ultimately, nobody knows besides Jackson and those kids.". True, so let's accept what facts there are. Let's stop digging "BUT he COULD have done it...". Because where does that get us? Nowhere. It's dumb.
-AC
The saying is a fallacy. Proven by the fact that the justice system has remand without bail meaning you can be locked up before trial for a rather large period of time.
Michael Jackson denied abusing children...He also denied having plastic surgery.
You're right about the pay off though. It means nothing and proves nothing either way. The simple fact now is, we'll never know what happened.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriI was just using Elvis as an example, people laugh about that all the time. I guess you hate this then:
If you can't formulate a decent, on topic reply besides cheering for someone who is saying what you couldn't possibly have come up with yourself, then I have a suggestion;Mosie on back to the OTF and create more immature threads about who could beat who in a fight, who you'd have on your side in a fight, or something that continues your ravenous obsession with Fight Club or fighting in general. Because clearly this thread is beyond you.
-AC
You gonna boycott South park now? If you are gonna come down on me, then you should write a long winded letter to the shows producers and tell them what heathens they are.
I dunno why you are taking this so personally. Humor is the spice of life. I'd wager that MJ had one helluva sense of humor.
Originally posted by jaden101
The saying is a fallacy. Proven by the fact that the justice system has remand without bail meaning you can be locked up before trial for a rather large period of time.Michael Jackson denied abusing children...He also denied having plastic surgery.
You're right about the pay off though. It means nothing and proves nothing either way. The simple fact now is, we'll never know what happened.
Regarding his denial of having surgery, like I said, he hasn't always helped himself, but we both know it doesn't matter. Whatever he did, they'd have found something.
He could have cured cancer and they'd still have hounded him.
You can't say that because he denied surgery, which was obvious, that he then abused kids. There's simply more evidence to suggest he didn't, or to doubt that he did, than to agree he did.
I'm not saying anybody knows for sure. I'm saying you can't say "We don't know for sure." as a means of keeping the idea that he was a paedophile alive, because then you have to apply that rationale to ALL criminal accusations, and you don't. It's just another way to keep guilt attached to his name.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I was just using Elvis as an example, people laugh about that all the time. I guess you hate this then:You gonna boycott South park now? If you are gonna come down on me, then you should write a long winded letter to the shows producers and tell them what heathens they are.
I dunno why you are taking this so personally. Humor is the spice of life. I'd wager that MJ had one helluva sense of humor.
I'm not taking it personally, it's not personal. I just think you are making comments you can't back, then agreeing with other people. I KNOW that's what you're doing because not once have you replied to anything I've replied to YOU about yet.
I never said you were a heathen for questioning him, just that you were wrong to do so. You are making incorrect comparisons; you cannot compare M.J. with Richard Gere. Richard Gere was accused of shoving gerbils in his ass, it was/is joked about now and then, but he's hardly suffered. M.J. was/is accused of paedophilia and despite court cases and lacks of evidence, he STILL is. People go so far as to call him a monster.
You acted as if he had a billion things that warranted people giving him shit, I proved that while I understood he did some outlandish things, it's massively disproportionate and undeserved. It's not personal, it's an argument.
If it's not something you're prepared to discuss, then don't get into the debate and then whine about it. Simple as.
As for South Park, what? They did what they always do, took a long running joke and made a show about it. They do it to anyone, nobody is an exception and that's how it should be. I have no issue with the M.J. jokes because that'd make me a hypocrite.
If anything, the underlying message of that episode was that yes, he brings some of it on himself, but ultimately people will always harrass him no matter what.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centaurihaermm OK man. No worries.
Regarding his denial of having surgery, like I said, he hasn't always helped himself, but we both know it doesn't matter. Whatever he did, they'd have found something.He could have cured cancer and they'd still have hounded him.
You can't say that because he denied surgery, which was obvious, that he then abused kids. There's simply more evidence to suggest he didn't, or to doubt that he did, than to agree he did.
I'm not saying anybody knows for sure. I'm saying you can't say "We don't know for sure." as a means of keeping the idea that he was a paedophile alive, because then you have to apply that rationale to ALL criminal accusations, and you don't. It's just another way to keep guilt attached to his name.
I'm not taking it personally, it's not personal. I just think you are making comments you can't back, then agreeing with other people. I KNOW that's what you're doing because not once have you replied to anything I've replied to YOU about yet.
I never said you were a heathen for questioning him, just that you were wrong to do so. You are making incorrect comparisons; you cannot compare M.J. with Richard Gere. Richard Gere was accused of shoving gerbils in his ass, it was/is joked about now and then, but he's hardly suffered. M.J. was/is accused of paedophilia and despite court cases and lacks of evidence, he STILL is. People go so far as to call him a monster.
You acted as if he had a billion things that warranted people giving him shit, I proved that while I understood he did some outlandish things, it's massively disproportionate and undeserved. It's not personal, it's an argument.
If it's not something you're prepared to discuss, then don't get into the debate and then whine about it. Simple as.
As for South Park, what? They did what they always do, took a long running joke and made a show about it. They do it to anyone, nobody is an exception and that's how it should be. I have no issue with the M.J. jokes because that'd make me a hypocrite.
If anything, the underlying message of that episode was that yes, he brings some of it on himself, but ultimately people will always harrass him no matter what.
-AC
Originally posted by occultdestroyerI was, as AC stated, taking a joke and running with it. Was he a pedo? Dunno dont care. Also, I am not the only one joking about it. Its page after page of it, check it out.
Nice job, AC.Rogue Jedi, stop acting like a prick and go back to the OTF where you belong.
You're calling a dead person a pedophile when no one is even 100% sure. And there were no evidence to support that claim.
I agree with George Carlin.
**** the kids and **** their parents.
I post one vid, kidding around, and it's suddenly the Salem witch trials all over again.
Expelliarmus.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I was, as AC stated, taking a joke and running with it. Was he a pedo? Dunno dont care. Also, I am not the only one joking about it. Its page after page of it, check it out.I post one vid, kidding around, and it's suddenly the Salem witch trials all over again.
Expelliarmus.
It's not the Salem witch trials, is it?
You posed a question and I called your back up for it. You have none, so you started scrambling as usual.
It's not about the jokes, you don't appear to be irrelevantly spamming them. It's about you making a dodgy claim and being called on it.
Now YOU are taking it personal, and this isn't the thread for it.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriThe "pick one" post was me saying that there are so many different ways to make fun if MJ. You gonna deny that? So I picked the most obvious one, it was done in poor taste, big deal, life goes on.
It's not the Salem witch trials, is it?You posed a question and I called your back up for it. You have none, so you started scrambling as usual.
It's not about the jokes, you don't appear to be irrelevantly spamming them. It's about you making a dodgy claim and being called on it.
Now YOU are taking it personal, and this isn't the thread for it.
-AC
Nothing personal here, I just find it odd that this thread is page after page of people bashing MJ, and the one time I make a joke about it, I have a bullseye on my back.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The "pick one" post was me saying that there are so many different ways to make fun if MJ. You gonna deny that? So I picked the most obvious one, it was done in poor taste, big deal, life goes on.Nothing personal here, I just find it odd that this thread is page after page of people bashing MJ, and the one time I make a joke about it, I have a bullseye on my back.
Because, for the millionth time, I do not have an issue with the jokes.
Yours wasn't a joke, it was you saying he had many things for people to **** with him over.
There was no visible humour there.
Your fault, not ours.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriThe vid was the joke, The "Pick one" statement was, well, just a statement.
Because, for the millionth time, I do not have an issue with the jokes.Yours wasn't a joke, it was you saying he had many things for people to **** with him over.
There was no visible humour there.
Your fault, not ours.
-AC
Big deal, guys. If you didn't like it, ignore it and let bygone be bygones. If you found it tasteless and terrible, report it and let the moderators judge it.
Perhaps it's a little rude to joke about dead people, but it's not like his time in the afterlife will be one in agony because people keep joking and having prejudiced opinions on him after death, like they have during his time alive.
Him being dead is just another opening for jokes. Not a closure.
Regarding his denial of having surgery, like I said, he hasn't always helped himself, but we both know it doesn't matter. Whatever he did, they'd have found something.
Sex crimes are notoriously difficult to prove because of the lack of solid physical evidence that can be linked to a specific act. That's why, in the UK, there has just been a huge overhaul of the rape and sexual assault laws. The same problems exist in the US system.
I'm not arguing that he did it. I also know from Gavin Arvizo's mother's testimony that she is a deeply disturbed woman and evidently has some serious mental issues because her testimony was, for the most part, complete gibberish.
I'd personally prefer it if MJ was remember for the astounding and influential pop music he made. But unfortunately, due to his own bad judgement, he probably wont.
I think he was such an overwhelming musician that he will definitely be remembered more for what he did in that field.
I still don't think the whole sex charges thing was as much his bad judgement as him being set up. The best that can happen is, if it's gonna be remembered, people remember that it went in his favour, and stop trying to make him out to be a monster.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Did I miss anything?
Yeah, the point, as usual.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You mean all those personal life choice "things" that had **** all to do with absolutely anyone else, things?Do you see where I'm going?
Picking on him for being different is no different than doing it to anybody. It's wrong in any scenario, with any person.
If you mean the fact that it was proposed he touched kids inappropriately; he was cleared of all charges, multiple times. The fact that he paid off one of the accusers does not reflect badly on him, but on the parents for taking it. It's entirely likely that HE wanted it to just be over, whilst they obviously only wanted money.
So what exactly do you think made him worthy of being "****ed with"? You say it's nothing personal, but if that be the case, then why suggest he deserves to be ****ed with for things that were nobody's business?
At times, I admit, he didn't help himself (The baby dangling incident), but so what? People were gonna **** with the guy regardless.
There are people here who have openly critiqued you for your choice of aged female and your romantic situations. People here have found it weird that you'd go for a girl 10 years (?) or more younger than you, but what business is it of anybody's, so long as you are happy, she is happy, and nobody is being harmed? NOBODY'S business. That's what. Afford Jackson the same courtesy or be quiet.
Some people love furries, who gives a shit?
Really?
Scenario: Michael Jackson abused your child. How much could you be paid off for? 10 mill, 16 mill, none?
Precisely. If you are after justice, no money can pay you off unless it's what you were after in the first place.
So, no. The pay off doesn't prove anything other than Jackson wanting the trial over, which could be for MANY reasons, some of them innocent. It also proves that the parents of Chandler were willing to let it be over for 16 million, and that proves that they're ****ing scumbag liars.
-AC [/B]
Answer: "Who gives a shit if you molest your collection of furries..?"
Cant compare inanimate furries to living children. AC.
It might imply that the Arvizos are scumbags in your judgement, and to be honest, since they sent their boy over to a pattern behavior child predator in the first place, I will not be quick to dispute that.
But I don't think neccessarily that the implies that they are liars.
And even if they were, Jackson had exhibited enough behavior to warrent massive, unbridled concern.
I dont have to justify their acceptance/non-acceptance.
If Jackson was after justice, (seeking to be being seen to NOT be up to no good) then the single most dumbest thing he could do, is try to avert a fair trial like he did with the Chandlers.
Jackson had his chance at that first trial to clear his name.
But naturally, since the kid could identify specifics about Jackson's Genitals etc he shat it and paid the shutup money hoping deludedly that the world would tolorate his behavior because "Hey! Its Michael Jackson...he could NEVER be inapropriate..!"
You imply that people want him to be a nonce if they disagree with you, which I feel is unfair, as I was a fan til 1993 and was horrified, not elated that he was a a f***ing perv.
Put it this way:
If I'M wrong, then boohoo, I was wrong about a man who had a long history of kiddy chasing who sat for ages with young teen boys on his knee even at public events, in his bedroom (According to Brooke Sheilds), and then realising that he was going down paid 16 million gagging order when it was in his interests to clear his name, who wanted access to the kids of the world (Well, not that he vigorously pursued every boy, just the "type" he liked.. ..and only 'til the first signs of adulthood too.) yet showing that he has no idea how to be around them. (Baby dangling, touching, Jesus Juice etc)....who deserved to be looked at with scrutiny and failed to stand up to it.
If you're wrong, you defended a nonce against all common sense thrown at you.
Im sleeping quite soundly, thank you.