Transformers 2 reviews, what did everyone think? · Transformers

Doctor-Alvis Post-Crisis Balki

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I think maybe the cartoon version, I could see what you mean, due to the pacing of the show there werent many times for inflection..
Crisis of command.
And many other comics in that particular run.
Great examples of the more troubled, detatched, introspective, cautious side of Prime.

Still not quite what I mean. Kinda hitting and missing with what I was saying with those descriptions. You don't see a whole lot of stories where the main dude is like a Spock or Data making decisions based on cold logic. Those kinds of characters are usually incredibly awesome "dragons" to leader of the team. Hell, I just accidentally described Soundwave. Imagine if he was leader of the Decepticons, and not just subbing for Megatron. I think Soundwave is awesome but it would be a boring story.

Sadako of Girth Extreme Mode

In the G1 I cited, Prowl was the cold, logical one.
Ironhide was like McCoy.
Prime was like Kirk. The blend of the passion and the logic.
And that made clinical detachtment (I agree our definition boundries may be a bit different in usage of the term) and objectivity that is a neccessity in that position.

The interesting moments for the characters are when those characters are knocked off center.

I think it was a tragic failure to be imaginative that was the case with Soundwave.

Doctor-Alvis Post-Crisis Balki

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
In the G1 I cited, Prowl was the cold, logical one.
Ironhide was like McCoy.
Prime was like Kirk. The blend of the passion and the logic.
And that made clinical detachtment (I agree our definition boundries may be a bit different in usage of the term) and objectivity that is a neccessity in that position.
The interesting moments for the characters are when those characters are knocked off center.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Not really much of a story if you're giving the cold, logical decisions to the cold, logical one.

I think it was a tragic failure to be imaginative that was the case with Soundwave.

What?

FistOfThe North Senior Member

a live action remake of the '80's "Transformers: the movie" would own.

Sadako of Girth Extreme Mode

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Not really much of a story if you're giving the cold, logical decisions to the cold, logical one.
What?

But the characters were all varying degrees of grey.
Prime was less detached than say....Shockwave (who was pure logic)
But way more detached than Ironhide. Its relative.

Yeah. Soundwave. Coulda be way less lame than the satellite idea.
Particularly in the execution of the design.

Doctor-Alvis Post-Crisis Balki

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But the characters were all varying degrees of grey.
Prime was less detached than say....Shockwave (who was pure logic)
But way more detached than Ironhide. Its relative.

Then pick the blackest shade. That's the one I'm talking about.

Yeah. Soundwave. Coulda be way less lame than the satellite idea.
Particularly in the execution of the design.

I think it would have worked better if his help was more apparent, or if he was more active with it. I can only assume stuff like the fly was him, but it seems like the ambush in the desert could have been prevented by him. Communication is an extremely powerful tool if used properly.

Sadako of Girth Extreme Mode

Originally posted by dadudemon
Millions of movie watchers can't be wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

🙂

roughrider Thunderer

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
🙂

So a hundred million people around the world are wrong, while a few dozen cranky fans on a website message board are right? 🙄

Doctor-Alvis Post-Crisis Balki

Humor is a tricky thing. A lot of people find things like Stella or Tim & Eric to be just stupid crap but if you understand the level of stupid that is executed on those two it's much more enjoyable.

Sadako of Girth Extreme Mode

Originally posted by roughrider
So a hundred million people around the world are wrong, while a few dozen cranky fans on a website message board are right? 🙄

Short answer: Yes.
There is a reason that mainstream stuff is dumbed down.

What can I say? 🙄

A lot of people believe governments still and believe in god. But I cant do anything about their situation, all I can do is say what I do or do not believe, and like/dislike. Thats the thing with being an individual....

And anyway......its silly also, imo, to link logics like "People payed to see giant robots warring" with "Oh that must mean that they all loved the humour".

'Cause most find the immature attempts at humour to be a big weak point, in the reviews of those who liked it.

darthmaul1 Senior Member

The type of humor in this movie is what took me out of it, because most of it was just stupid and not needed. In case you are wondering i have a wide range of humor and movie that i found very funny and can laugh all the way through are, Monty Python and the holy grail, dumb and dumber, cable guy, fawlty towers, balls of fury, austin powers, fish called wanda, and dodgeball.
The first transformers movie had humor in it that was IMO funny and well executed, (yes even the Sam's happy time) but the 2nd just went too far with the mum, leo, simmons, robot humping and robot with balls.

Sadako of Girth Extreme Mode

Exactly.

dadudemon Senior Member

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
🙂

This is also a logical fallacy. It is a hasty conclusion.

Since the measure of "good" would be the amount of money the movie makes, per Hollywood standards, then the movie excelled.

It doesn't matter what you think should be the measure of success. It is what Hollywood thinks.

Calling this an argumentum ad populum would be to misunderstand what constitutes a film. When it comes to movies, it really is the general opinion of the movie, and not the opinon of the few.

Edit - On second thought, yours would be a better fit for a deductive fallacy.

Sadako of Girth Extreme Mode

I dont think thats thats accurate. 🙂

No you misunderstand. Read the Ad Populum link again. Take in the words, think about them, apply them to your argument thus far, then we can progress.

Good is what isn't revealed to be shit by time passing and people looking objectively at the movie without their little fanboy specs on. 🙂

That you rate TS on its box office takings on the first few weeks is poor judgement indeed..

Lots of pricks out there with wallets who like the big shiny explosions and jokes designed for two year olds....and thats why Bay does so well. Oh well. Each to their own, I guess. 😐

But if you would like to lie in a shallow grave of ignorance for ever more, then by all means, continue arguing that business over art is the way forward in a time where we are sick as a mass audience of hollywood and its post-lobotomy scripts/plots and big walleted "ethics".

People have paid to see shit movies. Fact.

Still heres one for you, since you and Bay seem joined at the hip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRS90V8BQGo Look! Shiny!

No doubt that clip will be Citizen Kane/Godfather II/ESB like oscar material to you.

dadudemon Senior Member

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dont think thats thats accurate. 🙂

But it is. 🙂

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No you misunderstand. Read the Ad Populum link again. Take in the words, think about them, apply them to your argument thus far, then we can progress.

No, you misunderstand. Read my entire post again. You've incorrectly concluded that the population can be wrong when the movie's existance is to appeal to the contemporary population, in which it did qutie well.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Good is what isn't revealed to be shit by time passing and people looking objectively at the movie without their little fanboy specs on. 🙂

This is your opinion, but not what the popular opinion, which happens to be Hollywood's meter stick.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
That you rate TS on its box office takings on the first few weeks is poor judgement indeed..

You can call it that all you want. Doesn't change the fact that it more than accomplished it's goal of making money.

Your opinion means shit if the vast majority don't agree with you. 🙂

If your opinion was in tune with reality, then we wouldn't have another movie.

However, that shit is being made.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Lots of pricks out there with wallets who like the big shiny explosions and jokes designed for two year olds....and thats why Bay does so well. Oh well. Each to their own, I guess. 😐

Indeed. You can't do anything about it as long as you're out of popular opinion. I am certain I would pay to see a movie you made, and I'd probably like it, too...but that doesn't mean the movie would be good.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But if you would like to lie in a shallow grave of ignorance for ever more, then by all means, continue arguing that business over art is the way forward in a time where we are sick as a mass audience of hollywood and its post-lobotomy scripts/plots and big walleted "ethics".

I could say the same as you. If you'd like to be ignorant of what constitutes a good movie, then you'll never understand the appeal of Bay movies. (But, we both know that you know what the appeal is.)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
People have paid to see shit movies. Fact.

But people don't pay 3 and 4 times again to see movies they think is shit. Fact.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Still heres one for you, since you and Bay seem joined at the hip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRS90V8BQGo Look! Shiny!
No doubt that clip will be Citizen Kane/Godfather II/ESB like oscar material to you.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I can't see the clip. I'm at work. 😐

Sadako of Girth Extreme Mode

Originally posted by dadudemon
But it is. 🙂
No, you misunderstand. Read my entire post again. You've incorrectly concluded that the population can be wrong when the movie's existance is to appeal to the contemporary population, in which it did qutie well.
This is your opinion, but not what the popular opinion, which happens to be Hollywood's meter stick.
You can call it that all you want. Doesn't change the fact that it more than accomplished it's goal of making money.
Your opinion means shit if the vast majority don't agree with you. 🙂
If your opinion was in tune with reality, then we wouldn't have another movie.
However, that shit is being made.
Indeed. You can't do anything about it as long as you're out of popular opinion. I am certain I would pay to see a movie you made, and I'd probably like it, too...but that doesn't mean the movie would be good.
I could say the same as you. If you'd like to be ignorant of what constitutes a good movie, then you'll never understand the appeal of Bay movies. (But, we both know that you know what the appeal is.)
But people don't pay 3 and 4 times again to see movies they think is shit. Fact.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I can't see the clip. I'm at work. 😐

All Im hearing is cash over art.

Well bully for you and the suits.

Um I didnt pay four times... In fact like many others, I wouldnt pay to see it ever again...becuase of its more irritating attributes.

Your argument that the box office taking reflect 100% satisfaction with all the aspects of the film by all people, is nutty.

Most people loved Prime, and were paying to see him and Megan Fox's ass....and they found the nigglesome attempts at humour all the way through to be a big fu**er-offer.

Well not to worry, you wont be at work for ever.
The link'll still be there when you get home.

dadudemon Senior Member

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
All Im hearing is cash over art.

Unfortunate, but true.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well bully for you and the suits.

There are several films that I rated above T2. T2 is not one of my favs. It's a great film...but no 9. I have a long list of 9's before I get to my 8s.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Um I didnt pay four times... In fact like many others, I wouldnt pay to see it ever again...becuase of its more irritating attributes.

And no one is contradicting that. However, you anecdotal evidence does not disprove that the film sold a crap load of tickets. Not to mention all of the third party merchandising and licensing, and future reveneus from blu-ray and dvd releass. That movie was a smashing hit.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Your argument that the box office taking reflect 100% satisfaction with all the aspects of the film by all people, is nutty.

But that's not what I said, now is it?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Most people loved Prime, and were paying to see him and Megan Fox's ass....and they found the nigglesome attempts at humour all the way through to be a big fu**er-offer.

I wasn't laughing very much throughout the film, myself. I'm not mainstream humor. But that doesn't mean I didnt' see it for what it was: mainstream humor.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well not to worry, you wont be at work for ever.
The link'll still be there when you get home.

This is true. But, unlike you, I have to get up early, so Ican't stay up until 3 or 4 in the morning.

Doctor-Alvis Post-Crisis Balki

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Still heres one for you, since you and Bay seem joined at the hip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRS90V8BQGo Look! Shiny!
No doubt that clip will be Citizen Kane/Godfather II/ESB like oscar material to you.

Personal insults are the best way to win internet debates!

dadudemon Senior Member

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Still heres one for you, since you and Bay seem joined at the hip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRS90V8BQGo Look! Shiny!
No doubt that clip will be Citizen Kane/Godfather II/ESB like oscar material to you.

I saw the clip.

Robot Chicken is hilarious. I loved it.

However, I don't have very many Michael Bay films in my top 50. I'm looking back, and I don't think any of them except transformers made my top 50. Fer realz, dawg.

And what Dr. Alvis said.

Sadako of Girth Extreme Mode

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Personal insults are the best way to win internet debates!

Well I was debating with a very enthusiastic exponent of the form.