Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbethe flash gets his powers from the speed force (something that was invented to explain away his powers). Batman on the other hand doesn't have powers and there's no feasible way for a human being to become a master of that many styles in such a short time and still have time for learning everything else that he learned. It still flies in the face of his losses and stalemates and this isn't the looney toones; we can't just write it off as "comic logic". Perhaps batman is familiar with 127 styles, but for him to boldy proclaim that he's a master of 127 styles is ridiculous and I'm calling BS.
Two words. Comic Logic. Same as with most of Flash speed feats. Take it as sci-fi.
Originally posted by deathslashIt's been written as part of his character that he is a master of all. It's written in comics and handbooks many times over.
I personally consider batman saying that he's mastered 127 styles to be laughable. Even if we assumed that he had a perfect eidetic memory and it only took him a year to master one style (lol, that's hilarious), he would have to be somewhere around 150 years old because he was a teenager when he started (and that's without even factoring in that he's watched two of his partners grow old enough to become men). Not only that, but his statement of his own level of knowledge regarding martial arts flies in the face of all of his losses against enemies that shouldn't be able to beat him (catman, bane, KGBeast, deathstroke, bronze tiger, lady shiva, etc).
Has spent years perfecting every known fighting discipline. (The Ultimate Guide to the Justice League of America)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544037
Is said to be quite possibly the greatest martial artist alive and a master of every fighting style on earth (DC Comics Encyclopedia vol 2)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544041
Is a master of all fighting arts (Detective Comics #411)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544045
Trained to perfection in every violent art.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084797
Perfected every fighting Discipline.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084801
Mastered virtually all forms of combat.
[url]http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084803
Your opinion on it holds no bearing.
Also, people want to put Batman in a 'butbut but he's human' box, but he does a lot of things that are clearly inhuman. He is what the comics show and tell that he is.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's been written as part of his character that he is a master of all. It's written in comics and handbooks many times over.Has spent years perfecting every known fighting discipline. (The Ultimate Guide to the Justice League of America)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544037Is said to be quite possibly the greatest martial artist alive and a master of every fighting style on earth (DC Comics Encyclopedia vol 2)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544041Is a master of all fighting arts (Detective Comics #411)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544045Trained to perfection in every violent art.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084797Perfected every fighting Discipline.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084801Mastered virtually all forms of combat.
[url]http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084803Your opinion on it holds no bearing.
Also, people want to put Batman in a 'butbut but he's human that's imposible!' box, but he does a lot of things that are clearly inhuman. He is what the comics show and tell that he is.
👆
Also, if one masters a couple of arts, it's easier to master the others quicker. RL won't apply to beings in comics, even to those said to be human, see chi.
Originally posted by Juntai
Also, people want to put Batman in a 'butbut but he's human' box, but he does a lot of things that are clearly inhuman. He is what the comics show and tell that he is.
he's basically walking talking plot armor on just about all levels in comics everyone knows that. but... you are correct it is what it is. i cant try to put RL rules and laws into practice in comics.
Batman/Wildcat 2:
Batman goes to the worlds best teachers of every style, and perfects their style and moves on to the next until he's become the sum of all of them and more:
To put that into perspective, in Batman/Wildcat 3, he saw the way Wildcat moved and knew it was Ted Grant, and tried to talk him down, but when he realized he wouldn't listen, he dropped him like a sack in one shot.
Originally posted by Juntai
Batman/Wildcat 2:Batman goes to the worlds best teachers of every style, and perfects their style and moves on to the next until he's become the sum of all of them and more:
To put that into perspective, in Batman/Wildcat 3, he saw the way Wildcat moved and knew it was Ted Grant, and tried to talk him down, but when he realized he wouldn't listen, he dropped him like a sack in one shot.
It was also stated that Batman knows every MA in one of Kevin Smiths run.
Originally posted by deathslash
the flash gets his powers from the speed force (something that was invented to explain away his powers). Batman on the other hand doesn't have powers and there's no feasible way for a human being to become a master of that many styles in such a short time and still have time for learning everything else that he learned. It still flies in the face of his losses and stalemates and this isn't the looney toones; we can't just write it off as "comic logic". Perhaps batman is familiar with 127 styles, but for him to boldy proclaim that he's a [B] master of 127 styles is ridiculous and I'm calling BS. [/B]
But you accept Karate Kid mastering every known MA in the universe? And he's just a kid. Lmao. Batman knows every MA. Deal with it.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Read again. KK 15, Batman 12, difference 3. Batman 12, DD 11-10, difference 1-2. So no. But Batman MASTERED alls earthly fighting techs, Matt didn't so I wouldn't say that Matt is on his level. And Batman faced KK two times, KK was his superior but Batman could hold his own and even impress KK.
You Read again. i said almost. in your opinion a gap of 3 between batman and KK. 3 is a lot if we go by your meassures since karate kid is far superior. so in your opinion a gap of 2 between batman and daredevil is really far stretched in my own opinion. yeah yeah blah blah batman mastered 2163273218921092109 fighting styles we heard that. he still gets his ass kicked by the like of lady shiva, bronze tiger, deathstroke, and evenly matched by bane without his venom. statements does not concern me too much. if you know 2167276217632323232 types of a different punch it does not mean you will defeat someone who knows several punches. you dont need more than 1 punch in a fight to begin with. it comes down to how fast, accurate and strong you will execute your strike vs the opponent. nothing to do with how many throws kicks or punches you know. karate kid was weakened when he faced batman. secondly you have to be joking if you really try to compare them as evenly matched. even with batmans uber jobber aura the writers felt they need to weaken KK just so they can have an even match. by feats? you know the answer.
Originally posted by Dareangel
You Read again. i said almost. in your opinion a gap of 3 between batman and KK. 3 is a lot if we go by your meassures since karate kid is far superior. so in your opinion a gap of 2 between batman and daredevil is really far stretched in my own opinion. yeah yeah blah blah batman mastered 2163273218921092109 fighting styles we heard that. he still gets his ass kicked by the like of lady shiva, bronze tiger, deathstroke, and evenly matched by bane without his venom. statements does not concern me too much. if you know 2167276217632323232 types of a different punch it does not mean you will defeat someone who knows several punches. you dont need more than 1 punch in a fight to begin with. it comes down to how fast, accurate and strong you will execute your strike vs the opponent. nothing to do with how many throws kicks or punches you know. karate kid was weakened when he faced batman. secondly you have to be joking if you really try to compare them as evenly matched. even with batmans uber jobber aura the writers felt they need to weaken KK just so they can have an even match. by feats? you know the answer.
This argument was about h2h skill, which is a part of ones h2h capabilities but not the only one. Styles in comics are like superpowers, see KK, pressure points etc.
Look at this:
Now, the question is who is better at h2h, so I break it down.
Technique/skills: Batman (MASTER of all Styles) 12, DD 10 or 11
Speed: Even, one can give the edge to one or the other. Bats who dodged lasers, bullets etc. without the need for enchanced senses like DD is fast but DD could compete there with his superpower or might even have the edge. Though again, knowing all styles allows Batman to anticipate DD moves and counter them.
Strength: Batman (trained his body to comic-human perfection)
Durability: Batman (same as above)
Agility: Daredevil (not as bulky)
Experience: Batman, easily.
Batman took down Superhuman beings, kept up with the most skilled MA fighter in comic history and showed abilities beyond anything that makes sense in RL.
Both have their share of defeats by different tiers (for the stories). You can lowball them both. Take their average or their highest showings and Batman stomps with gear and wins after a nice fight witout gear.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
This argument was about h2h skill, which is a part of ones h2h capabilities but not the only one. Styles in comics are like superpowers, see KK, pressure points etc.
Look at this:Now, the question is who is better at h2h, so I break it down.
Technique/skills: Batman (MASTER of all Styles) 12, DD 10 or 11
Speed: Even, one can give the edge to one or the other. Bats who dodged lasers, bullets etc. without the need for enchanced senses like DD is fast but DD could compete there with his superpower or might even have the edge. Though again, knowing all styles allows Batman to anticipate DD moves and counter them.
Strength: Batman (trained his body to comic-human perfection)
Durability: Batman (same as above)
Agility: Daredevil (not as bulky)
Experience: Batman, easily.Batman took down Superhuman beings, kept up with the most skilled MA fighter in comic history and showed abilities beyond anything that makes sense in RL.
Both have their share of defeats by different tiers (for the stories). You can lowball them both. Take their average or their highest showings and Batman stomps with gear and wins after a nice fight witout gear.
my point is simple. you present a specific scale. thats your opinion. i state that your opinion contradict feats and what we see in comics. then you point out it should be that way based on how many forms of martial arts one knows. then i piont out it simply doesnt matter because by your logic nobody should beat batman. he should at least be stalemated. another thing is that it doesnt make sense because it doesnt matter how many styles, forms, call it anyway you want, it doesnt matter how many of those you know because in a fight the more important thing is stats and how you are able to utilize that. skills is the ability to perform in a fight. it is effected by ones stats as well as his ability to utilize his knowledge properly. if you want to argue simply knowledge about martial arts thats another things. skills is not only knowledge in martial arts but its about execution. and execution in a fight doesnt depend on how many styles you know. how many styles does Cap knows? so he is far less skilled than batman? be serious.
Originally posted by Dareangel
my point is simple. you present a specific scale. thats your opinion. i state that your opinion contradict feats and what we see in comics. then you point out it should be that way based on how many forms of martial arts one knows. then i piont out it simply doesnt matter because by your logic nobody should beat batman. he should at least be stalemated. another thing is that it doesnt make sense because it doesnt matter how many styles, forms, call it anyway you want, it doesnt matter how many of those you know because in a fight the more important thing is stats and how you are able to utilize that. skills is the ability to perform in a fight. it is effected by ones stats as well as his ability to utilize his knowledge properly. if you want to argue simply knowledge about martial arts thats another things. skills is not only knowledge in martial arts but its about execution. and execution in a fight doesnt depend on how many styles you know. how many styles does Cap knows? so he is far less skilled than batman? be serious.
Ok, again. Physical stats are one thing, technique another. If two people, both seasoned fighters, same physical stats fight, the one with more experience and knowledge has the edge (and yes, mastering styles is knowledge. So DD has nothing that puts him above Batman, no superior physical stats you are so eager to stick to now, nor the knowledge (styles) nor the knowledge how to use those styles. You argument is basically ->DD wins because Batman, who is his arguable physical superior, knows more styles but he is not able to use those styles in combat because it's just about the physical execution of a strike or kick, which Batman can't do as good as DD because of ... because of what? Ah yes because Batman has only low feats and DD has only high feats... gimme me a break.
And if you seriously think that Batman is less able to utilize his superior stats than Matt, a further dicussion with you is pointless.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Semantics 😛 but neither here nor there.Batman has the stats to better use his skills. Even a simple punch, delivered by a trained boxer, is far more devastating from a strong guy.
Exactly. And skills still matter. Two seasoned fighters, one is a boxer, slightly weaker and less durable, the other one is a boxer, is perfect at judo, aikido and krav maga, also he is slightly stronger and more durable. Who has a better chance to win? Does it mean that the first one has no chance at all? No, but the odds are against him and a victory is very unlikely.
