Daredevil vs Batman

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He adapts:

AND he already has mastered EVERY form of combat:

as far as the first scan, he stated he soaked knowledge about combat as in warfare. not martial arts even thought combat still involved hanf 2 hand cmobat but its different from every martial art. adapting? sure, we are talking about pure skills and the other guy said it has to do with how many styles one knows. so by his definition captain america is less skilled. by my definition, what you show is backing me up that its how you perforn in a fight. as far as cap knew every form known to man? it was in the 60s or 70s. fighting has evolved since then. anyway, i am not arguing against Cap i am stating that if we go by the other guys definition it makes no sense. since shang chi for example who is the master of kung fu, even thought kung fu consists of many styles its still just kung fu, means he is less skilled than batman for example or Cap just because he doesnt know more styles. thats a very wrong definition since as i pointed out, its about how you perform in a fight and utilize your abilities.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
nice dodge.

Ok, again. Physical stats are one thing, technique another. If two people, both seasoned fighters, same physical stats fight, the one with more experience and knowledge has the edge (and yes, mastering styles is knowledge. So DD has nothing that puts him above Batman, no superior physical stats you are so eager to stick to now, nor the knowledge (styles) nor the knowledge how to use those styles. You argument is basically ->DD wins because Batman, who is his arguable physical superior, knows more styles but he is not able to use those styles in combat because it's just about the physical execution of a strike or kick, which Batman can't do as good as DD because of ... because of what? Ah yes because Batman has only low feats and DD has only high feats... gimme me a break.

And if you seriously think that Batman is less able to utilize his superior stats than Matt, a further dicussion with you is pointless.

not dodging anything. explaining to you something you fail to udnerstand.
this discussion is about fighting skills. skills are also effected by stats. when you see people fighting in a ring and 1 of them is dodging easily or soing something great thats skills. thats speed its part of skills. you are talking only about knowledge. you are not talking about skills. having knowledge about many forms and being able to perform them does not mean in a fight your skills will be better than the skills of your opponent. you fail to realize such simple point or you already realized that, but your EGO is not allowing you to admit i am right by explaining to you more specificly what skills are.

you also fail to comprehend. my initial point was not if daredevil is better or not. i can agree to dissagree. my argument is that you are making a huge gap in skills between daredevil and batman and your explanation to that is the number of fighting styles batman knows. i explained already why its wrong. as far as not only knowledge about fighting, but stats and comics performance, daredevil can easily match batman. supress or not is debatable. but match easily. your claim contradicts everything and is not backed up by even the most simple logic.

as i point out, big number of martial arts knowledge is not useful in a fight. in a fight you need speed which daredevil has over batman, reflex, which again daredevil has the edge in. executing the right strike at the right time and power. thats why shang chi who is only master of kung fu alone is one of the top martial artists and fighters in marvel universe. when wolverine and spiderman needed training and become more skilled they went to shang chi. but he only knows KUNG FU!!!!!. when i am wrong i easily admit i am wrong. everybody can see that in my posts. when my opinion contradicts another opinion i also agree to each their own. but when i am right like in this discussion then i am right. its not a matter of opinions but a fact that you are wrong.

Originally posted by Dareangel
in a fight you need speed which daredevil has over batman, reflex, which again daredevil has the edge in.

Prove Daredevil is faster and has better reflexes in combat than Batman.

He's been seen swatting bullets away quite a few times with his tiny billy clubs, Bats at best managed to cover himself with his bulletproof arm...

That's why I stated in combat, meaning h2h. Daredevil is probably the best street at reflecting/dodging projectiles. But, he still get hit by other streets in h2h just like Batman. And Bruce has the same or slightly better h2h combat feats of speed and reflex.

Ah, k.

Yeah, in h2h speed there's no real gap between them.

Originally posted by Supermutant
That's why I stated in combat, meaning h2h. Daredevil is probably the best street at reflecting/dodging projectiles. But, he still get hit by other streets in h2h just like Batman. And Bruce has the same or slightly better h2h combat feats of speed and reflex.

being able to dodge bullets and avoid projectiles is body movement. body movement is also relevant in a fight. if he is able to move his limbs and body faster than batman in same situations, that actually means he is faster and has better reflexes. of course vs other opponents it wont look like theres too much difference just the same as superman is tagged and hit by opponents way slower than him. by any brick actually. however, if we look at daredevils fights vs spiderman for example who commented on how fast matt is, that matt is able to keep up with him. he was too fast for winter soldier to shoot him with firearms. when bullseye threw ninja stars at him, matt was able to just catch them all in the air and throw back at him. there is no need to mention how fast bullseye throws such things. its all speed of movement. batman never presnt actual speed. he never present any super reflex. he is just walking with a durable suit and blocking bullets as stated with his armored arms. sometimes he avoids gun shots but he is never portrayed on those levels of speed and agility. and thats not even touching the fact matt has radar senses to help him avoid batman. matt is quicker, more agile , faster and with better reflex than batman. its known to anyone who reads them both. you also stated that batman has better speed feats than matt?? wtf?? present them i would love to see them. again, body movement is fighting movement its the same thing. you confuse flight speed with fighting speed those things are different. but not the things we are discussing here.

Batman outreacts HV from a bloodlusted Superman:

Edit: AFTER they were fired, too.

Originally posted by Dareangel
not dodging anything. explaining to you something you fail to udnerstand.
this discussion is about fighting skills. skills are also effected by stats. when you see people fighting in a ring and 1 of them is dodging easily or soing something great thats skills. thats speed its part of skills. you are talking only about knowledge. you are not talking about skills. having knowledge about many forms and being able to perform them does not mean in a fight your skills will be better than the skills of your opponent. you fail to realize such simple point or you already realized that, but your EGO is not allowing you to admit i am right by explaining to you more specificly what skills are.

you also fail to comprehend. my initial point was not if daredevil is better or not. i can agree to dissagree. my argument is that you are making a huge gap in skills between daredevil and batman and your explanation to that is the number of fighting styles batman knows. i explained already why its wrong. as far as not only knowledge about fighting, but stats and comics performance, daredevil can easily match batman. supress or not is debatable. but match easily. your claim contradicts everything and is not backed up by even the most simple logic.

as i point out, big number of martial arts knowledge is not useful in a fight. in a fight you need speed which daredevil has over batman, reflex, which again daredevil has the edge in. executing the right strike at the right time and power. thats why shang chi who is only master of kung fu alone is one of the top martial artists and fighters in marvel universe. when wolverine and spiderman needed training and become more skilled they went to shang chi. but he only knows KUNG FU!!!!!. when i am wrong i easily admit i am wrong. everybody can see that in my posts. when my opinion contradicts another opinion i also agree to each their own. but when i am right like in this discussion then i am right. its not a matter of opinions but a fact that you are wrong.

facepalm

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman outreacts HV from a bloodlusted Superman:

Edit: AFTER they were fired, too.

he moves out the way of the beams, thats not the same as the feats i have stated. but again, i dont say batman doesnt have speed feats he does. however daredevil outclass him in that department. not to mention his senses.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm

so you dont have an argument to counter. concession accepted you are released.

Originally posted by Dareangel
so you dont have an argument to counter. concession accepted you are released.

Originally posted by Dareangel
he moves out the way of the beams, thats not the same as the feats i have stated. but again, i dont say batman doesnt have speed feats he does. however daredevil outclass him in that department. not to mention his senses.

Exactly.

He moved out of the way of a lightspeed attack. AFTER it was fired. HV moves faster than bullets, shurikens, etc.

Originally posted by Dareangel
being able to dodge bullets and avoid projectiles is body movement. body movement is also relevant in a fight. if he is able to move his limbs and body faster than batman in same situations, that actually means he is faster and has better reflexes. of course vs other opponents it wont look like theres too much difference just the same as superman is tagged and hit by opponents way slower than him. by any brick actually.

Any C level street can aim dodge, catch arrows and darts, and out-react bullets and other projectiles. Means nothing or very little when they face other streets who they trade blows with. Daredevil has traded hits with Crossbones, Bullseye, Elektra, Cap, Punisher, Black Panther, Iron Fist, Echo, etc. Its not like they are just standing still while DD blitzes them. And Bats has a ton of feats.

Originally posted by Dareangel
however, if we look at daredevils fights vs spiderman for example who commented on how fast matt is, that matt is able to keep up with him.

A bunch of MMA have impressed Spidey with their speed. MMAers are like his kryptonite, Black Tarantula, Steel Serpent, Shang Chi, Taskmaster, and others have left Peter in awe of their speed.

Peter commenting about the Cat, "never seen a human move so fast!"

Originally posted by Dareangel
he was too fast for winter soldier to shoot him with firearms.

Yet Bucky was able to grab him while getting arrows shot at him by Hawkeye and dealing with Cap and Wolve. Which furthers my point that DD is not far above his peers in combat speed.

Originally posted by Dareangel
when bullseye threw ninja stars at him, matt was able to just catch them all in the air and throw back at him. there is no need to mention how fast bullseye throws such things. its all speed of movement.

lol you act like Bats haven't caught arrows from Green Arrow with his back turn or dodge close shots from Deathstroke and Deadshot. Or deflected bullets out of the air with his batarangs lol

lol the stuff you mention is what Bat is known for and has more feats during that time of stuff than DD.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

👆

Originally posted by Supermutant
Any C level street can aim dodge, catch arrows and darts, and out-react bullets and other projectiles. Means nothing or very little when they face other streets who they trade blows with. Daredevil has traded hits with Crossbones, Bullseye, Elektra, Cap, Punisher, Black Panther, Iron Fist, Echo, etc. Its not like they are just standing still while DD blitzes them. And Bats has a ton of feats.

A bunch of MMA have impressed Spidey with their speed. MMAers are like his kryptonite, Black Tarantula, Steel Serpent, Shang Chi, Taskmaster, and others have left Peter in awe of their speed.

Peter commenting about the Cat, "never seen a human move so fast!"

Yet Bucky was able to grab him while getting arrows shot at him by Hawkeye and dealing with Cap and Wolve. Which furthers my point that DD is not far above his peers in combat speed.

lol you act like Bats haven't caught arrows from Green Arrow with his back turn or dodge close shots from Deathstroke and Deadshot. Or deflected bullets out of the air with his batarangs lol

lol the stuff you mention is what Bat is known for and has more feats during that time of stuff than DD.

Yup. Marvel fans act like DD is the only street who can perform uber feats. Batmans are superior, tbh.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Any C level street can aim dodge, catch arrows and darts, and out-react bullets and other projectiles. Means nothing or very little when they face other streets who they trade blows with. Daredevil has traded hits with Crossbones, Bullseye, Elektra, Cap, Punisher, Black Panther, Iron Fist, Echo, etc. Its not like they are just standing still while DD blitzes them. And Bats has a ton of feats.

A bunch of MMA have impressed Spidey with their speed. MMAers are like his kryptonite, Black Tarantula, Steel Serpent, Shang Chi, Taskmaster, and others have left Peter in awe of their speed.

Peter commenting about the Cat, "never seen a human move so fast!"

Yet Bucky was able to grab him while getting arrows shot at him by Hawkeye and dealing with Cap and Wolve. Which furthers my point that DD is not far above his peers in combat speed.

lol you act like Bats haven't caught arrows from Green Arrow with his back turn or dodge close shots from Deathstroke and Deadshot. Or deflected bullets out of the air with his batarangs lol

lol the stuff you mention is what Bat is known for and has more feats during that time of stuff than DD.

as pointed out, in fight rarely does comic book writers portray character X just speedblitzing character Y. that wouldnt be interesting. however, if we see daredevils overall performance when he is always portrayed as being very agile and fast with extreme reflexes, it will give us indication. just as spiderman is tagged many times but we know his fighting speed. we rarely see batman actually performing limb movement speed. he has body movement but actually doing multiple tasks at the same time and out fighting someone via speed is something daredevil simply does better. batman is more of a stiff block when it comes to speed he is only good at getting out of the way. and of course, as pointed out dont ignore the radar senses.

first of all there is no shame in admiting cat i fast because he is very fast and probably would put a pressure on batman as far as speed and reflex. this is the guy who stalemates shang chi. also, daredevil has several fights not only with spiderman to hold the title of speed, but also feats like avoiding namors hits while fighting and making him look like a block. again, he has radar senses which allow him to do it even better than any average street. batman simply wont be able to compete.

of course eventually he can be tagged. i mean he is no flash or quicksilver lets not forget that. hoever the fact daredevil needs to be tricked while he is avoiding something else speaks volumes. batman on the other hand is always tagged by huge bricks like bane, grundy, crock, atc atc. daredevil has by far more feats of avoiding hits in a fight and actually showing speed and reflex. AND AGAIN HE HAS RADAR SENSES TO ALLOW THAT.

i see you dont know much about bullseyes throwing abilities 😬

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
durwave
I am not wasting time with someone who just doesn't want to understand or who is unable to do so and hence tries to drag me into a circular "monologue" into his fairy world where DD wins based on being less skilled, having lesser stats, lesser experience. Argue with yourself if you desperately need it but I am out of this.

yeah yeah all your moaning and the meaning remains the same. concession accepted move on. next time add more smilies, maybe that will do for an argument Lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly.

He moved out of the way of a lightspeed attack. AFTER it was fired. HV moves faster than bullets, shurikens, etc.

where was it stated the beams since fired from batmans eyes travel with light speed. also, in the scan we dont see if batman is standing or began to move. we see his body but is he already moving? we dont know. we see in the next panel he already completely moved. but when did he start? we dont know.