I don't think they'll change anything other then using him for rage in this paticular story, which works for him. It will prob take a bit to bring him down, adding more rings vs the black ring. They already tried the Will/Hope against him and it failed, now adding Fear, Love and Rage might be enough to loosen deaths hold on Crispus dead body. 😗 Well see what happens
Originally posted by -Pr-
after what atrocitus said, i'm beginning to think more and more that Spectre is becoming an equal to Parallax in a way, as in, the Spectre is to Rage what Parallax is to Fear. I mean, the Spectre is so often called the Spirit of Vengeance. Atrocitus' entire formation of the RLC is based on his quest for vengeance against the guardians for creating the manhunters, right?I mean, i know people are mad, but i personally think that if Parallax is the origin of fear, the very basis for the concept, then that alone makes him incredibly powerful.
I think god needs to be taken out of the equation, tbh. if the Spectre is the personification of Rage or the need for vengeance, then he would be a tool for God's use, and not a true representative of God himself like, say, the Angels would be.
Atrocitus might be the Guardian of the RLC, but he's no spirit of rage or vengeance (vengeance itself being born of anger at an injustice or wrongdoing in most cases, no?).
if THAT was the direction Johns was going in, then i'd be happy, tbh.
That makes a lot of sense; I like the idea.
It also explains the discrepancy between the "god-backed" Spectre and the "regular Spectre." When he's fulfilling a mission for god, he gets a great deal of an amp; when he's just being the rage avatar, he's pretty damn powerful, but not on the level of the Presence or something.
I've had this discussion before, on this same thread I believe, with Digi, and it's not so much a problem of Johns having problems writing Spectre into his stories, but the repeatedly proven hate and disrespect he has for the character, making him look bad at every turn not because the plot calls for it but because he simply can. Anybody who actually read the comics written by him in which the Spectre appeared and doesn't go for a general "Yeah, but he is too powerfull, how is he supposed to treat him ?" not-fact-based statements, would know it.
But even if we start from the premise that he doesn't do this due to his dislike for the character, how could anybody possibly agree with the ideea that if a writer has a hard time fitting a character into his story, then he can go ahead and rewrite the entire character and concept to fit his needs ?. What the fuck ? It's disrespectful to his fans, to other writers like John Ostrander who did amazing work with the character and to the character itself.
If you want to go even futher, we can take a look at how writers had a hard time fitting him into stories/events. Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Final Night or even the recent Final Crisis have either had him play a major part or expanded on his non-involvment as to advance the character aswell. He’s even had three post-crisis ongoings, the two most succesfull ones having him at the powerlevel he is supposed to be. But now because Geoff „Guardians rival Spectre in power, he flees scared from Parallax, a Black Lantern ring can make him him quite literally his ***** etc.” Johns wants to retcon him into an avatar of rage (?) because he is too powerfull, eventough he doesn’t actually write him that way, everybody jumps into the badnwagon ? That’s baffling.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I've had this discussion before, on this same thread I believe, with Digi, and it's not so much a problem of Johns having problems writing Spectre into his stories, but the repeatedly proven hate and disrespect he has for the character, making him look bad at every turn not because the plot calls for it but because he simply can. Anybody who actually read the comics written by him in which the Spectre appeared and doesn't go for a general "Yeah, but he is too powerfull, how is he supposed to treat him ?" not-fact-based statements, would know it.But even if we start from the premise that he doesn't do this due to his dislike for the character, how could anybody possibly agree with the ideea that if a writer has a hard time fitting a character into his story, then he can go ahead and rewrite the entire character and concept to fit his needs ?. What the fuck ? It's disrespectful to his fans, to other writers like John Ostrander who did amazing work with the character and to the character itself.
If you want to go even futher, we can take a look at how writers had a hard time fitting him into stories/events. Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Final Night or even the recent Final Crisis have either had him play a major part or expanded on his non-involvment as to advance the character aswell. He’s even had three post-crisis [b]ongoings
, the two most succesfull ones having him at the powerlevel he is supposed to be. But now because Geoff „Guardians rival Spectre in power, he flees scared from Parallax, a Black Lantern ring can make him him quite literally his ***** etc.” Johns wants to retcon him into an avatar of rage (?) because he is too powerfull, eventough he doesn’t actually write him that way, everybody jumps into the badnwagon ? That’s baffling. [/B]
it's not a case of blindly following johns. he's done some terrible shit in the past.
i just like the idea of spectre being that kind of being, personally... like tjcoady said, it would explain several things...
It really wouldn't, Raoul. There's nothing to be explained in the first place, he has nothing to do with what it's assumed Johns wants him to be -the avatar of the red lantern corps-. He was Aztar, an angel who was transformed by God to become his spirit of vengeance as punishment for his rebellion with Lucifer. This was clearly depicted on-panel and is a fundamental part of the character.
If Johns wants to cherry pick continuity, retcon and mold characters to his vision, shitting on the character, fans and writers who have made him what he is today, then a big 'f you' to him, but many people actually getting behind this kind of behaviour is quite the slap in the face.
Originally posted by Philosophía
It really wouldn't, Raoul. There's nothing to be explained in the first place, he has nothing to do with what it's assumed Johns wants him to be -the avatar of the red lantern corps-. He was Aztar, an angel who was transformed by God to become his spirit of vengeance as punishment for his rebellion with Lucifer. This was clearly depicted on-panel and is a fundamental part of the character.If Johns wants to cherry pick continuity, retcon and mold characters to his vision, shitting on the character, fans and writers who have made him what he is today, then a big 'f you' to him, but many people actually getting behind this kind of behaviour is quite the slap in the face.
ok, well i honestly didn't know that he used to be an angel, so my bad.
I would rather have the spirit of rage somehow split from the Spectre rather than being him to be honest. Why? Because whether we like it or not, the Spectre has close ties with Hal Jordan, and as such with GL continuity, it could certainly be explained that his humans host had somehow betrayed the divine concept of vengeance with rage and trapped the red light host inside himself. I think it would be better than just retconning him to hell.
Just my two cents.
what i dont get is the event is almost over...just about every other ongoing in DC has moved on and refers to BN in the past tense.....my beef with it isnt art or writing...its just that nothing is happening. we keep seeing the same family.badguy showing up to mind f **** and thats it.....we have Nekron who is supposed to play the role of this big bad ass architect and he hasnt done anything.....1 or 2 issues left IIRC and Nekron has done nothing....the Anti monitor has done nothing.... i dont even remember what was the purpose of this whole crisis...im almost like....this is what the guardians have been dreading all these millenia as the greatest assault on sentient life in the universe?...really? a bunch of ppl rising from the dead and killing a handful of ppl and cuasing lots and lots of property damage?....really?
Originally posted by manjaro
what i dont get is the event is almost over...just about every other ongoing in DC has moved on and refers to BN in the past tense.....my beef with it isnt art or writing...its just that nothing is happening. we keep seeing the same family.badguy showing up to mind f **** and thats it.....we have Nekron who is supposed to play the role of this big bad ass architect and he hasnt done anything.....1 or 2 issues left IIRC and Nekron has done nothing....the Anti monitor has done nothing.... i dont even remember what was the purpose of this whole crisis...im almost like....this is what the guardians have been dreading all these millenia as the greatest assault on sentient life in the universe?...really? a bunch of ppl rising from the dead and killing a handful of ppl and cuasing lots and lots of property damage?....really?
it gets worse, if the previews are to be believed.
worse for the characters, not worse as a series, i mean.
Originally posted by manjaro
what i dont get is the event is almost over...just about every other ongoing in DC has moved on and refers to BN in the past tense.....my beef with it isnt art or writing...its just that nothing is happening. we keep seeing the same family.badguy showing up to mind f **** and thats it.....we have Nekron who is supposed to play the role of this big bad ass architect and he hasnt done anything.....1 or 2 issues left IIRC and Nekron has done nothing....the Anti monitor has done nothing.... i dont even remember what was the purpose of this whole crisis...im almost like....this is what the guardians have been dreading all these millenia as the greatest assault on sentient life in the universe?...really? a bunch of ppl rising from the dead and killing a handful of ppl and cuasing lots and lots of property damage?....really?
I agreed that this event is all most over and nothing is done. Or the story is cut off short.
Anti Monitor I though is just the power of the BL? Nekron has done shit all as the big baddy. Its just a bunch of Lanterns fighting each other and sometimes the big bad guys show up for a few pages.
Either way this event hasnt impressed me. SCW is still the best event.