Obamas Universal Health Care: Refuse it and you will be punished

Originally posted by KidRock
If that is true it's my mistake and I misunderstood it.

I just figure that really doesn't make sense though.

Why force someone to have health insurance? Either people don't want it, in which case let them be, or they cannot afford it, in which case why give them a fine which they cannot afford?

The people not able to afford it would be exempt.

The idea is to get everyone to be covered, so that no one has to worry about dying at 20 of something preventable because they don't have insurance. I agree with you in theory, that if they actively don't want it, why the hell force it on them, but that is just the mindset many people have, and it is not necessarily a bad one either. The fine is basically a way of making the people pay for the expenses that they might have at tax payers expense otherwise, if i understood the idea correctly.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The people not able to afford it would be exempt.

The idea is to get everyone to be covered, so that no one has to worry about dying at 20 of something preventable because they don't have insurance. I agree with you in theory, that if they actively don't want it, why the hell force it on them, but that is just the mindset many people have, and it is not necessarily a bad one either. The fine is basically a way of making the people pay for the expenses that they might have at tax payers expense otherwise, if i understood the idea correctly.

But you already ARE paying for the expenses.

If I keep my private insurance, I am still paying for the public system. It's not like I can just say no to paying my taxes which pay for the public funded system.

So it's like you're making people pay twice almost with this fine.

Originally posted by KidRock
But you already ARE paying for the expenses.

If I keep my private insurance, I am still paying for the public system. It's not like I can just say no to paying my taxes which pay for the public funded system.

So it's like you're making people pay twice almost with this fine.

This outta increase US taxes substantially in the future.

The 45 million uninsured number that is thrown around in the US to justify this measure it silly, not all 45 million are without the ability to insure themselves, a large portion choose to not purchase coverage.

I would like to see something where those with pre-existing conditions though can get some sort of coverage through private health insurance without charging them mortgage type payments for the insurance.

Originally posted by Chopsum
The 45 million uninsured number that is thrown around in the US to justify this measure it silly, not all 45 million are without the ability to insure themselves, a large portion choose to not purchase coverage.

What do you base that on?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
The policy CLEARLY is that you get fined only if you have no insurance of any kind, not that you get fined because you don't want the Government option.

Why fine them? Where is that rule and law in the Constitution?

The government is overstepping their bounds once again.

Originally posted by KidRock
If that is true it's my mistake and I misunderstood it.

I just figure that really doesn't make sense though.

Why force someone to have health insurance? Either people don't want it, in which case let them be, or they cannot afford it, in which case why give them a fine which they cannot afford?

👆

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What do you base that on?

His own crazy idea. 🤪 😖

Originally posted by The Scribe
Why fine them? Where is that rule and law in the Constitution?

The government is overstepping their bounds once again.

👆

So you're saying that requiring car insurance is unconstitutional?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
So you're saying that requiring car insurance is unconstitutional?

That too. 😉

I'm sorry, where's the law in the constitution that there mustn't be laws not sppecifically mentioned in the constitution?

I think it's on the page that Ben Franklin got stuck to his shoe after he wiped his ass with it. Actually it says that those laws not specifically mentioned would be delegated to the federal government and the states. So if you get cancer, you won't have to bail yourself out and the hospital doesn't have to bail you out on the taxpayers dime and so you aren't left high and dry after some redneck totals your car spending your time in court trying to prove that he should very gradually have his paychecks garnished in order to pay for your new rascal scooter and speech therapy lessons.

I gotta say Scribe, based on everything I've seen you write you don't seem to have very much life experience. Like the joy of having to have surgery or being hit by an uninsured driver.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Seems incorrect. The first sentence specifies that it is just for people who refuse to buy affordable health care. Meaning if you already have a health care provider you will not have to pay.

I agree that it seems like a silly law, though, if I understood right it is not a fine as such, but a minimum payment for treatment that you would receive in case of emergency. Although this just seems hinted at in the article. It all seems like an unreasonably complicated plan anyways, easiest, and perhaps best, would be to install a system similarly to the German, where you have to be minimum covered by a government issued insurance but can opt out and not pay it but rather pay privately, with certain benefits, of course. That system, like all government health care systems of course has flaws, but it's certainly better than what the US has now.

Though I think that is kinda where that plan is going anyways, though with some oddities.

Yes, that's what I though. Kid Rock, I find myself agreeing with you much more than others here...but this time, I'm going to have to side with Bards. It would be retarded to penalize people with "equivalent" private plans."

Sounds like a good plan. I'd go for that. But, on top of that, I want a cap on the amount of money that can be paid out on malpractice suits and increase the harshness for something proven to be willful negligence (harsher criminal things like prison time, etc.).

Originally posted by Darth Jello

I gotta say Scribe, based on everything I've seen you write you don't seem to have very much life experience. Like the joy of having to have surgery or being hit by an uninsured driver.

I have had plenty.
That's why the police can be called and they can write down the information.

It's not like they do much. I saw one sitting in his squad car yesterday sleeping. That's not even close to the first time either. 😖

ok, then what?

Originally posted by The Scribe
America needs to get rid of Socialism, not bring more in.

Socialism is for people who want a daddy to run their lives for them. baby

I thought that was religion. 🙂

Originally posted by grimify
I thought that was religion. 🙂

Not even close. 😛

Originally posted by grimify
I thought that was religion. 🙂

Originally posted by Mindset
Who told you you could think?

I did.

Stay away from my "jib." 😛

Originally posted by KidRock
But you already ARE paying for the expenses.

If I keep my private insurance, I am still paying for the public system. It's not like I can just say no to paying my taxes which pay for the public funded system.

So it's like you're making people pay twice almost with this fine.

You really have to read this more carefully.

The aim of the plan is to make health insurance affordable to everyone.

The ONLY penalty system is if you COULD have afforded it, didn't get it and then requires hospital treatment. The fine covers your uninsured cost of treatment.

This has nothing to do with a taxation argument whatsoever. It is still people's insusrance that is paying the money for their treatment, not taxes,

You should note, btw, that in most social health systems, the healthcare is still paid out of insurance, except that it is a mandatory national insurance rather than a private option. Still not part of general taxation.

Anyway, this proposal looks like a bit of a hotch-potch mess to me, but it is an improvement on the originak.

Fact is, the US will move to socialised health care eventually. The great inequities caused by a private system are just too shaming to keep when virtually the rest of the civilised world has moved on.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
the originak.

KFC's one and only originak recipe. 😛