Obamas Universal Health Care: Refuse it and you will be punished

Originally posted by Chopsum
Incorrect, he is basing his policy on invalid numbers to justify his position, so how can that create a valid program, its as bad as medicare which when Govt once again projected numbers were a little off..........

You've concluded that they are invalid, but that could very well be the primary target demographic for the plan. In fact, that's all we can conclude if that's what "they" are citing.

Originally posted by Chopsum
Everyone you say, thats funny I don't see everyone responding and acknowledging the millions as a valid number to produce solid policy. Well maybe to you it makes sense since you apparently still listen to Mc Hammer.

Understanding the numbers being used /= "everyone responding and acknowledging the millions as a valid number to produce solid policy."

That is another logical fallacy. "They" call it strawman. 😐

Originally posted by Chopsum
The plan doesn't have to exist to know its garbage when they use numbers to validate their policy on trash numbers, once again you need to review the Kaiser numbers to better understand what Obama's magic numbers mean.

Why would I need to review the numbers when it is you who doesn't understand them? Does that even make sense to you? (Obviously, it does...and that was a rhetorical question.)

Originally posted by Chopsum
Oh I know you have a perspective but its skewed based on irrational numbers thrown to you that apparently you like to defend and attempt to justify.

Originally posted by KidRock
The problem is I might want to keep my health insurance, the one that wont say, "sorry, the government deems you too old and too unimportant to be given that treatment" and has provided well for me over the years.

But if I want to do this I will be forced to pay a FINE, on top of the taxes I will be paying to provide healthcare for other people.

And no, the penalty should not exist.

Yeah, i think being able to choose your Dr. rather than being assigned a physician based on area is nice too.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You've concluded that they are invalid, but that could very well be the primary target demographic for the plan. In fact, that's all we can conclude if that's what "they" are citing.

Understanding the numbers being used /= "everyone responding and acknowledging the millions as a valid number to produce solid policy."

That is another logical fallacy. "They" call it strawman. 😐

Why would I need to review the numbers when it is you who doesn't understand them? Does that even make sense to you? (Obviously, it does...and that was a rhetorical question.)

Not once has my goal in this conversation been an attempt to defend the numbers. It has always been to correct you and your fallacious interpretations/conclusions. 🙂 That's it. In fact, I've even expressed a dislike for said plan. Did you read that or are you ignoring for the sake of trolling?

oh, ok thanks.... 😆

Originally posted by Chopsum
oh, ok thanks.... 😆

Well, that was a quick turn around. 😆

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, that was a quick turn around. 😆

Nope, it's a reality, if you want to retort to my specific responses as opposed to what the value of said official statements mean then yes it is.

I still stand by by my valid point in that this public system is based on public appeal using crap numbers to justify it.

We already have a hybrid system if you don't know that then shame on anyone in particular for allowing a justification of this to occur.

Make insurance carriers nonprofit in the private sector and that is part of the solution. Using numbers that are unjustified occur is bad, hence Obama's use to justify his policy.

Obama has no released plan to provide to the single payer system, so my thoughts are just that, thoughts.

Originally posted by Chopsum
Nope, it's a reality, if you want to retort to my specific responses as opposed to what the value of said official statements mean then yes it is.

I still stand by by my valid point in that this public system is based on public appeal using crap numbers to justify it.

We already have a hybrid system if you don't know that then shame on anyone in particular for allowing a justification of this to occur.

Make insurance carriers nonprofit in the private sector and that is part of the solution. Using numbers that are unjustified occur is bad, hence Obama's use to justify his policy.

Obama has no released plan to provide to the single payer system, so my thoughts are just that, thoughts.

I would be interested in his single payer system idea. I'd definitely like to look over it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I would be interested in his single payer system idea. I'd definitely like to look over it.

We have a hybrid system currently most states have insurance plans for those with low income (which when we say low income it has alot of room what is low income)

But seriously unless we monitor or restrict what we call "profit" and malpractice insurance to create crap testing practices for Doc's we'll see.

We'll see indeed. I do welcome something to monitor whats happening now but until its in place it's speculation as we both said.

ps did I mention I disagree with how they try to garner support.

(let's hope they provide some value because what they propose is just govt bloat, electronic records have been around for a decade already.)

Originally posted by Chopsum
We have a hybrid system currently most states have insurance plans for those with low income (which when we say low income it has alot of room what is low income)

But seriously unless we monitor or restrict what we call "profit" and malpractice insurance to create crap testing practices for Doc's we'll see.

We'll see indeed. I do welcome something to monitor whats happening now but until its in place it's speculation as we both said.

ps did I mention I disagree with how they try to garner support.

(let's hope they provide some value because what they propose is just govt bloat, electronic records have been around for a decade already.)

I.....used to work in insurance. The rabbit hole probably goes deeper than even you think.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I.....used to work in insurance. The rabbit hole probably goes deeper than even you think.

I do work in insurance so the hole isn't very deep unless you want to tell me your experience.

That isn't to question your validity simply a question as to what you provided in insurance, what did you do?

I helped creat "single payer" health care systems statewide in purchasing pools and small employers (which didn't always get to praticipate) and as an employer I know the costs.

Originally posted by Chopsum
I do work in insurance so the hole isn't very deep unless you want to tell me your experience.

That isn't to question your validity simply a question as to what you provided in insurance, what did you do?

Insurance agent for Secure Horizons. Paid like shit, considering all the work I did, which is why I changed over to IT.

The experience had me working very closely with Medicare, medicaid, and coordination of benefits with other medicare replacement insurance programs, as well as commercial insurance from employers.

I would say that working with a medicare replacement plan is actually the most complicated insurance can get. I worked, before that, for Met-Life dental, and I was told that Dental plans can get just as complicated as anything else out there, but I found medicare replacement plans to be the most complex type of insurance out there.

When I quit, my official title was "SME" or "Subject Matter Expert" which is a broad title that basically means "if no one else can figure it out, ask him."

Why make a thread if you haven't read the entire article facepalm

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Why make a thread if you haven't read the entire article facepalm

Because he's a "not a republican". Also the wording was sort of awkward.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Because he's a "not a republican". Also the wording was sort of awkward.

mmm

Kudos for not changing your sig is such a long time.

From what i read, Obama's trying to get this passed asap.

I'm curious. If Obama does get this passed, how soon will those people who will benefit from it begin to see results and get their treatment?

This is kind of in between. I believe America should have either gone for Universal healthcare or not. All this in betweeny bits are not going to end well.

On the other hand - I seriously doubt Obama could have ever in a million years passed a universal healthcare system.
Seriously people, universal healthcare it is not all bad.

Universal Healthcare is a great thing. We had this for years in Canada and in Quebec. In Quebec tought, we begin to have a "Two Speed Healthcare Systeme". It's a hybrid. We have some, not a lot, but some private clinics now.

I think that a hybrid system would be the best thing for you.

btw, I don't understand what's the problem with the fact that you'll pay more tax. In Canada, and mostly in Quebec, we pay a lot of it, but on the other hand, we have a shitload of public services.
That's society choices.

Or you could stabilize the economy by socializing medicine and making the top 1% pay no less than 50% of their income in taxes and no less than 70% in capital gains. Both economic theory and practice prove that you have depressions, excesses, and eventual collapses and social catastrophes if you don't. The problem is that it's never gonna happen as long as this country that used to be pretty great is subverted into a kleptocratic plutocracy by bankers, monopolistic cartels pretending to be competing industries, and politicians who rely solely on private cash to get reelected and the whims of their corporate masters to make policy.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Or you could stabilize the economy by socializing medicine and making the top 1% pay no less than 50% of their income in taxes and no less than 70% in capital gains. Both economic theory and practice prove that you have depressions, excesses, and eventual collapses and social catastrophes if you don't. The problem is that it's never gonna happen as long as this country that used to be pretty great is subverted into a kleptocratic plutocracy by bankers, monopolistic cartels pretending to be competing industries, and politicians who rely solely on private cash to get reelected and the whims of their corporate masters to make policy.