Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What do you base that on?
Rather your question should be, where did the elected officials that pawn that number constantly get it from.
It's a crap number.
And if you just feel an itch to read, The Kaiser Family Foundation regularly keeps up numbers on the uninsured.
Originally posted by Chopsum
Rather your question should be, where did the elected officials that pawn that number constantly get it from.It's a crap number.
And if you just feel an itch to read, The Kaiser Family Foundation regularly keeps up numbers on the uninsured.
Well according to the Kaiser Foundation there were 46.1 million unisured in the US as of 2005 (not counting old people). So I would guess the elected officials got "45 million" via rounding.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well according to the Kaiser Foundation there were 46.1 million unisured in the US as of 2005 (not counting old people). So I would guess the elected officials got "45 million" via rounding.
Yes and Kiaser has broken that number down to about 8.5 million out of 45 million (Kaiser has also identified roughly 10 million of the 45 million are illegal aliens.) Actually are the only ones able to receive no coverage due to whatever reason.
So 8.5 million are not getting affordable coverage in the USA that are American, per Kaiser's numbers.
Like I said its a bloated crap number to get your attention at 45 million.
Originally posted by Chopsum
Yes and Kiaser has broken that number down to about 8.5 million out of 45 million (Kaiser has also identified roughly 10 million of the 45 million are illegal aliens.) Actually are the only ones able to receive no coverage due to whatever reason.So 8.5 million are not getting affordable coverage in the USA that are American, per Kaiser's numbers.
Like I said its a bloated crap number to get your attention at 45 million.
There are still (according to your own source) 45 million uninsured people in the US.
That only 9 million are ineligible might be a better statistic but it doesn't make the other one false or even particularly misleading.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There are still (according to your own source) 45 million uninsured people in the US.That only 9 million are ineligible might be a better statistic but it doesn't make the other one false or even particularly misleading.
Use the Kaiser source at a little over 46million.
The reality of that number is it's not a good indicator to use for justifying the cost and purpose of "affordable" health care unless we know who really needs affordable healthcare to create a national healthcare system to further increase deficit is bad.
[q]That only 9 million are ineligible might be a better statistic but it doesn't make the other one false or even particularly misleading.[/q]
Dude where do you live, that makes the number that they use to base their new policy on, thats a huge discrepency.
Originally posted by Chopsum
Dude where do you live, that makes the number that they use to base their new policy on, thats a huge discrepency.
rather, it is a stat politicians use in a way to convince people to support their policy options.
the figure of 45m is still accurate and is entirely representative of what it is describing. Someone who would jump from that number to "45 million people are ineligible" is where this issue is.
Originally posted by inimalist
rather, it is a stat politicians use in a way to convince people to support their policy options.the figure of 45m is still accurate and is entirely representative of what it is describing. Someone who would jump from that number to "45 million people are ineligible" is where this issue is.
Its a deceptive number when used to describe the purpose and value of the system he is proposing.
A large portion of that number won't even be eligible for what he is proposing, they are illegal immigrants.
Maybe we can have another medicare/social security issue🙂
Originally posted by Chopsum
Its a deceptive number when used to describe the purpose and value of the system he is proposing.A large portion of that number won't even be eligible for what he is proposing, they are illegal immigrants.
Maybe we can have another medicare/social security issue🙂
indeed
yet the fact remains, 45 million people is an accurate and valid stat
its use for something it does not describe does not make it less accurate
Originally posted by inimalist
indeedyet the fact remains, 45 million people is an accurate and valid stat
its use for something it does not describe does not make it less accurate
Its an accurate statistic when used in the context of 45 million uninsured people in the United States.
It becomes a deceptive number when its used in the context to push public policy.
It is deceptive, 45 million people won't be "affected" by the policy in that they would magically get "affordable" coverage.
It assists in once again creating public policy that is just as bad as bush's fear mongering.
Originally posted by Chopsum
[B]It is deceptive, 45 million people won't be "affected" by the policy in that they would magically get "affordable" coverage.B]
Actually, you're incorrect here. It really would give them affordable coverage...unless they make some sort of non-citizen stipulation, it's whole point is to cover the vast majority of those 46.1 million and then cover more gaps for others who are insured.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, you're incorrect here. It really would give them affordable coverage...unless they make some sort of non-citizen stipulation, it's whole point is to cover the vast majority of those 46.1 million and then cover more gaps for others who are insured.
I'm so incorrect, ok.
Tell me what is your affordable coverage, how much does it cost, what does it provide.
Because everyone country creates a single payer plan and invites non tax paying illegal immigrants into their plan...............lol.
How can you even tell me what the goal of Obama's plan is when he hasn't said what it is yet and its not even on his website.
This whole plan is garbage atm based on more garbage numbers, politicians are as bad or worse then lawyers I swear lol.
Originally posted by Chopsum
Tell me what is your affordable coverage, how much does it cost, what does it provide.
No. 😐
Originally posted by Chopsum
Because everyone country creates a single payer plan and invites non tax paying illegal immigrants into their plan...............lol.
No, not everybody.
Originally posted by Chopsum
How can you even tell me what the goal of Obama's plan is when he hasn't said what it is yet and its not even on his website.
If we are referring to a single payer system, then it is obvious...no thinking required. 😐
Originally posted by Chopsum
This whole plan is garbage atm based on more garbage numbers, politicians are as bad or worse then lawyers I swear lol.
Logical fallacy. You just said above that you couldn't find the goal of the plan. Therefore, you cannot conclude that it is garbage at the moment.
Now let me put things into perspective for you:
I'd rather have NO government involvement into healthcare, above and beyond setting laws. No programs. No assistance programs. Etc. Just laws that are enforced with fines and criminal charges. 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
No. 😐No, not everybody.
If we are referring to a single payer system, then it is obvious...no thinking required. 😐
Logical fallacy. You just said above that you couldn't find the goal of the plan. Therefore, you cannot conclude that it is garbage at the moment.
There is no logical fallacy, he hasn't posted what it will provide or do just that he wants it and will charge Americans for it based on numbers that are garbage.
Hence basing the plan on numbers that don't make sense the actual non posted plan is trash. No different then Bush in his fear mongering.
That should put things in perspective for you.
Originally posted by Chopsum
There is no logical fallacy, he hasn't posted what it will provide or do just that he wants it and will charge Americans for it based on numbers that are garbage.
You cannot claim to know nothing of the plan and then call it garbage. That is just as retarded as being a blind straight ticket republican: the most ignorant and rabid type of person I've met when it comes to politics.
Originally posted by Chopsum
Hence basing the plan on numbers that don't make sense
STOP!
Hammer time:
They don't make sense to you, but it would seem that everyone else here understands them just fine.
Originally posted by Chopsum
the actual non posted plan is trash. No different then Bush in his fear mongering.
Again, you can't claim it is trash when you yourself claim that the plan doesn't exist in detail.
Originally posted by Chopsum
That should put things in perspective for you.
I didn't need any perspective. But, obviously, you did.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You cannot claim to know nothing of the plan and then call it garbage. That is just as retarded as being a blind straight ticket republican: the most ignorant and rabid type of person I've met when it comes to politics.
Incorrect, he is basing his policy on invalid numbers to justify his position, so how can that create a valid program, its as bad as medicare which when Govt once again projected numbers were a little off..........
They don't make sense to you, but it would seem that everyone else here understands them just fine.
Everyone you say, thats funny I don't see everyone responding and acknowledging the millions as a valid number to produce solid policy. Well maybe to you it makes sense since you apparently still listen to Mc Hammer.
Again, you can't claim it is trash when you yourself claim that the plan doesn't exist in detail.
The plan doesn't have to exist to know its garbage when they use numbers to validate their policy on trash numbers, once again you need to review the Kaiser numbers to better understand what Obama's magic numbers mean.
I didn't need any perspective. But, obviously, you did.
Oh I know you have a perspective but its skewed based on irrational numbers thrown to you that apparently you like to defend and attempt to justify.
Originally posted by Chopsum
Incorrect, he is basing his policy on invalid numbers to justify his position, so how can that create a valid program, its as bad as medicare which when Govt once again projected numbers were a little off..........Everyone you say, thats funny I don't see everyone responding and acknowledging the millions as a valid number to produce solid policy. Well maybe to you it makes sense since you apparently still listen to Mc Hammer.
The plan doesn't have to exist to know its garbage when they use numbers to validate their policy on trash numbers, once again you need to review the Kaiser numbers to better understand what Obama's magic numbers mean.
Oh I know you have a perspective but its skewed based on irrational numbers thrown to you that apparently you like to defend and attempt to justify.
Erm:
a) you don't actually know the numbers they're using because you don't know the plan, you know the numbers they're using the sell the plan to people
b) it is a logical fallacy to say that inaccurate in puts must lead to an inaccurate conclusion, though of course accurate inputs are much more reliable