But he didn't use lethal force to ko diana or despero. He was making blackrock afraid who was once thrown in sun without using full power and made adam cry in pain when they fought. Remember superman's a genius and according to first thunder a mentor to billy, he knows what are the limits of marvel's durability. Anyway, rules say that when bloodlusted characters would use full power in their fights.
Originally posted by abhilegend
1. Yes, magic hurts superman but not to the point people are making it to be or do you think magic hurts him more than kryptonite? He has stated to darkseid that compared to kryptonite omega beams are walk in a park. Do you think adam's lightning charged punches can hurt him more than omega beams? Since bio field's gone superman can easily endure his amp punches because he has endured greater magic than adam's lightning e.g Disciples's magic, a magic beam that was going to destroy entire paradise island etc.
2. No, Jay only stole adam's speed to achieve light speed, his muscles started to tear at mach 500 and he started slowing down and fell during higher speed, seeing him fall down Jay stole his speed and crossed light speed. Compare this to superman who started his race to wally at 2000 mps and was accelarating and if you'd read his race with Jay you'll learn that it was ON FOOT when Cadbara put a spell on wally so that he was running at top speed and they were trying to catch him.
3. WWIII. What did he do in 52 that was so spectacular? Fought teen titans, fought doom patrol, tricked j'onn, restrained by alan and power girl, got his face melted by martian vision. For an amped adam it was a shitty showing, he never fought anyone of elite club, just a bunch of heroes who jobbed to him I mean alan scott going H2H wtf, he fought heroes with groups of one and two and no one was trying to harm him while he was trying to kill everyone. Regular Superman fought j'onn, power girl, supergirl, killowog, ultraa and many other alien heroes AT ONCE and they couldn't even restrain him. Later in that comic he one shotted Despero. Compare amped adam to amped Kal and you'll see the diffrence.
3. No, he doesn't posses a healing factor. Marvels can only heal by turning to their human form and returning to their powered form. Feel free to correct me. Superman OTOH has healed from impaled by kryptonite blades, throat slit by tiara, impaled by magic arrows and sword in superman man of steel 128 and many more times.
4. So, what is diffrent between hand surrounding lightning and body surrounding lightning, magic doesn't weakens superman neither it amps adam's durability, the lightning just disrupts magic. It wasn't that much of high end showing either as it's just a form of nectoplasm and superman himself breached spectre's form in action comics 829. Superman shattered the body of soulfire darkseid by nothing but his fists but these feats are meaningless.
5. What context, he beat Eclipsed Mon while suffocating in a straight battle, he fought superboy who was orderded by time trapper to kill him otherwise trapper would erase his dimension long enough to make him realise he was fighting wrong man. He fought prime without any context, one shotted diana in final crisis without any context, one shotted despero without any context. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean we would keep only adam's high end feats and toss superman's out of window.
I would only reconsider my stance when anybody tells me a single time adam has defeated an opponent stronger, faster and more durable than him.
1. Superman's tolerance for Kryptonite has increased over the years as well, so I don't get why it's even being brought up. Biofield or not, it's still very much obvious that magic puts him at a disadvantage. I for one am not going to ignore every single time magic was shown to harm him in favor of only his high end feats of him resisting it. Who cares about the Omega Effect?
2. The plan was for Jay to steal his speed the whole time because he couldn't achieve it under his own power.
3. Yes, he does. 😐 That's one of the primary functions of the Atlas of Stamina and Shu. Cap healed from being turned inside out for one example. And the Speed of Mercury/Swiftness of Heru have also been attributed to making them heal faster.
4. Whether you want to say it weakens him directly or its a chink in his otherwise invulnerable armor or whatever, it's obvious magic is something that has been consistently shown to be something that Kal is at a disadvantage toward. As recent in pre-reboot DCU as the New Krypton angle, it was specifically mentioned and shown that outside of Kryptonite and red solar energy, magic was a prime propponent capable of taking down Superman/Kryptonians.
5. Yeah "what context" indeed.
So, basically, you've decided to ignore everything about Adam and the Marvels, cling to most of Superman's high end feats as if they were the gospel, and to hell with everything else. Gotcha.
Originally posted by cdtm
Marketing gimmick, and goes against all the other times he didn't kill, even when it was all on the line. If Superman uses lethal force, he simply isn't Superman.
Disagree. I think when pushed far enough, he's capable and willing to do it. Doomsday was neither the first nor the last time he took a life.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
1. what do you call not being damaged By a punch? A No Sold.
2. black adam flew across the universe in 10,000 years non stop or rest , black adam getting tired is PIS
3. Im pretty sure adam has a healing factor or else any damage would be permanent, and I never argued he was more durable
4. The Marvels lighting can tag FLASH, superman is not doging anything
If Billy can dodge it, Superman can dodge it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
1. Yes, magic hurts superman but not to the point people are making it to be or do you think magic hurts him more than kryptonite? He has stated to darkseid that compared to kryptonite omega beams are walk in a park. Do you think adam's lightning charged punches can hurt him more than omega beams? Since bio field's gone superman can easily endure his amp punches because he has endured greater magic than adam's lightning e.g Disciples's magic, a magic beam that was going to destroy entire paradise island etc.
2. No, Jay only stole adam's speed to achieve light speed, his muscles started to tear at mach 500 and he started slowing down and fell during higher speed, seeing him fall down Jay stole his speed and crossed light speed. Compare this to superman who started his race to wally at 2000 mps and was accelarating and if you'd read his race with Jay you'll learn that it was ON FOOT when Cadbara put a spell on wally so that he was running at top speed and they were trying to catch him.
3. WWIII. What did he do in 52 that was so spectacular? Fought teen titans, fought doom patrol, tricked j'onn, restrained by alan and power girl, got his face melted by martian vision. For an amped adam it was a shitty showing, he never fought anyone of elite club, just a bunch of heroes who jobbed to him I mean alan scott going H2H wtf, he fought heroes with groups of one and two and no one was trying to harm him while he was trying to kill everyone. Regular Superman fought j'onn, power girl, supergirl, killowog, ultraa and many other alien heroes AT ONCE and they couldn't even restrain him. Later in that comic he one shotted Despero. Compare amped adam to amped Kal and you'll see the diffrence.
3. No, he doesn't posses a healing factor. Marvels can only heal by turning to their human form and returning to their powered form. Feel free to correct me. Superman OTOH has healed from impaled by kryptonite blades, throat slit by tiara, impaled by magic arrows and sword in superman man of steel 128 and many more times.
4. So, what is diffrent between hand surrounding lightning and body surrounding lightning, magic doesn't weakens superman neither it amps adam's durability, the lightning just disrupts magic. It wasn't that much of high end showing either as it's just a form of nectoplasm and superman himself breached spectre's form in action comics 829. Superman shattered the body of soulfire darkseid by nothing but his fists but these feats are meaningless.
5. What context, he beat Eclipsed Mon while suffocating in a straight battle, he fought superboy who was orderded by time trapper to kill him otherwise trapper would erase his dimension long enough to make him realise he was fighting wrong man. He fought prime without any context, one shotted diana in final crisis without any context, one shotted despero without any context. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean we would keep only adam's high end feats and toss superman's out of window.
I would only reconsider my stance when anybody tells me a single time adam has defeated an opponent stronger, faster and more durable than him.
1. The magic is going to hurt either way, but I'd like to think Superman is smart enough not to put himself in the position of trying to tank magic punches.
4. Depends on the magic.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
1. Superman's tolerance for Kryptonite has increased over the years as well, so I don't get why it's even being brought up. Biofield or not, it's still very much obvious that magic puts him at a disadvantage. I for one am not going to ignore every single time magic was shown to harm him in favor of only his high end feats of him resisting it. Who cares about the Omega Effect?2. The plan was for Jay to steal his speed the whole time because he couldn't achieve it under his own power.
3. Yes, he does. 😐 That's one of the primary functions of the Atlas of Stamina and Shu. Cap healed from being turned inside out for one example. And the Speed of Mercury/Swiftness of Heru have also been attributed to making them heal faster.
4. Whether you want to say it weakens him directly or its a chink in his otherwise invulnerable armor or whatever, it's obvious magic is something that has been consistently shown to be something that Kal is at a disadvantage toward. As recent in pre-reboot DCU as the New Krypton angle, it was specifically mentioned and shown that outside of Kryptonite and red solar energy, magic was a prime propponent capable of taking down Superman/Kryptonians.
5. Yeah "what context" indeed.
So, basically, you've decided to ignore everything about Adam and the Marvels, cling to most of Superman's high end feats as if they were the gospel, and to hell with everything else. Gotcha.
"At approximately mach 500 Black Adam's strength began to FLAG".
"He stumbled and I stole his velocity". Jay was not stealing his speed from start.
Here are the scans for superman and Jay's race
See at no point adam was able to outrace Jay but superman was initially behind Jay but at the end was continuously ahead of him. Then there is the instance of JSA annual where Jay flat out told him that kal was faster than him.
3. Realy, we saw how much his healing factor works in WWIII where he continued to bleed for entire time but ignored it. Captain marvel surviving turned inside out is not an example of healing factor, it is a matter of invulnerability. We've seen the healing factor of captain marvel when superman beat the shit out of him where he didn't heal at all and had to go out of commission. It's a fact that marvels can only heal by turning into their human form and repowering. If you can provide a scan of their healing factor than I would happily concede, untill then I don't believe in theories.
4. Once again magic. It's not an auto win against superman, he has faced many magical villains and untill it's a spell or a sharp object, nothing has stopped him before. Now if I remember correctly it was you who said that the instances of CM3 and mary being depowered can't be used against captain marvel. So why are you using other kryptonians being depowered by one of the biggest examples of PIS I've ever seen. Magic isn't kryptonite or red sun which can depower kryptonians and it was once again Geoff johns using non-existent flaws to remove superman from equation like he did in GL:rebirth which was never heard before or would ever be heard again or if you have another instance of a kryptonian being depowered by magic, please tell me. Even felix faust one of the most powerful magic users have to use red sun energy to weaken superman in Identity Crisis.
5. No rebuttal. Good. Provide me context would you please.
Once again tell me which opponent has adam defeated who are stronger, faster, and more durable than him. Untill then Superman 7/10.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No it's you who is clinging to the claims DC made over the years that cap and kal were equals and because adam punked billy most of the time it's clear as day that he would also defeat superman. So your only argument is that it's magic and because of superman's "magic weakness" he loses. So I guess silver surfer is also weak against magic because a magic knife cut him. Just because shazam lightning weakens superman doesn't mean I would forget about his other magic resisting feats or you are one of those guys that claims that every one of those feats are PIS and we should stick to only those instances where he was depicted as a kitten to magic. I thought here we take averages in account.
1. Yes, his tolerance to knite has increased but so has his tolerance to magic. If you read his year one stories like when he first teamed up with Dr. Occult in action comics annual 5 a single demon owned him who Occult said that it was the lowest level of demon in hell. Consider the later stories where he regularly defeated demons, hold his own against Blaze, resisted magical transmutation etc. and you would find he is not some feeb against magic. Maybe you are thinking about tenth circle where some vampire controlled him which was contradicted by a previous story in Superman v2 180 where count dracula himself combusted in flame because superman stored solar energy or in the story itself where the vampire stated that he couldn't control aliens. Guess what superman is AN ALIEN. Hard to believe, huh. Or you are going by what lex said in Action comics annual 10 that he is as vulnerable as a human to magic. And who cares about omega effect, it's not like one of the most feared attacks in DC, which has brought down countless heroes and villains. So you didn't answer me which affects superman more Magic or Kryptonite?
2. Here are the scans from the race"At approximately mach 500 Black Adam's strength began to FLAG".
"He stumbled and I stole his velocity". Jay was not stealing his speed from start.
Here are the scans for superman and Jay's raceSee at no point adam was able to outrace Jay but superman was initially behind Jay but at the end was continuously ahead of him. Then there is the instance of JSA annual where Jay flat out told him that kal was faster than him.
3. Realy, we saw how much his healing factor works in WWIII where he continued to bleed for entire time but ignored it. Captain marvel surviving turned inside out is not an example of healing factor, it is a matter of invulnerability. We've seen the healing factor of captain marvel when superman beat the shit out of him where he didn't heal at all and had to go out of commission. It's a fact that marvels can only heal by turning into their human form and repowering. If you can provide a scan of their healing factor than I would happily concede, untill then I don't believe in theories.
4. Once again magic. It's not an auto win against superman, he has faced many magical villains and untill it's a spell or a sharp object, nothing has stopped him before. Now if I remember correctly it was you who said that the instances of CM3 and mary being depowered can't be used against captain marvel. So why are you using other kryptonians being depowered by one of the biggest examples of PIS I've ever seen. Magic isn't kryptonite or red sun which can depower kryptonians and it was once again Geoff johns using non-existent flaws to remove superman from equation like he did in GL:rebirth which was never heard before or would ever be heard again or if you have another instance of a kryptonian being depowered by magic, please tell me. Even felix faust one of the most powerful magic users have to use red sun energy to weaken superman in Identity Crisis.
5. No rebuttal. Good. Provide me context would you please.
Once again tell me which opponent has adam defeated who are stronger, faster, and more durable than him. Untill then Superman 7/10.
You do know that Jay was stealing Adam speed the entire time during that race right?
Originally posted by carver9
You do know that Jay was stealing Adam speed the entire time during that race right?
Originally posted by -Pr-
Disagree. I think when pushed far enough, he's capable and willing to do it. Doomsday was neither the first nor the last time he took a life.
Byrne had him do it, and it had serious psychological consequences to the point that Supes vowed never to kill again.
Cyborg Superman doesn't count, because Supes already knew Henshaw could survive without a body, and Doomsday from Superman/Doomsday was just another marketing gimmick tie in to Death, and also out of character...
The exceptions prove the rule, and there's far more proof that Ending Battle is how Superman normally acts than not.
Just because Batman used guns in his earliest appearances, or in Final Crisis, doesn't make that normal for his character..