Orion couldn't beat Darkseid without Darkseid purposely losing to him.
Superman has defeated him on multiple counts.
Superman doesn't beat Orion heads up, because he isn't outright trying to down him, because Orion is a good guy.
You see, in one of those scenarios, Orion and Superman are peers.
In the other, Superman steps it up to take on a superior foe.
Another example;
JLA Classified 15.
The entire JLA is decimated, laying unconscious, and Superman alone stands up to fight more.
Alien: Are you read for more? (To Superman )
Supes: Actually, I think I'm ready to stop playing with you.
Alien: Playing? I've beaten you half to death.
Supes: Not even close. I needed to measure your power and get a handle on what's really happening here. And that took time. So I just soaked up your punches while I worked it all out.
Supes: You see I'm not human. My eyes, for instance, work very diferently. There was a flicker on everything. All the surfaces in here, including yours, cycle 512 times a second. The others would never see that. But I do. Just as I can see and hear all the communications traffic moving around. Finding the frequencies took time.
Supes: I am a scientists son of the House of El. And I am a reporter. And while I may not be as quick at pattern recognition as my wife, I'm not completely stupid. Given time, I can find my way into any story. And this is just a story. Make-believe. You pushed your little stunt just a hair too far, and I saw through it.
Supes: You're strong. Your strategy programming is clever and complex. And you have absolutely no concept of the sanctity of organic life. (supes uses heat vision to burn off the aliens right arm)
Supes: All these things make you a powerful, frightening enemy. But I'm Superman.
Originally posted by quanchi112
How is it a real point in comparing characters? Sure, we can compare their feats, but Superman being the center star doesn't equate him beating Orion just because he isn't. Do you see my point?
yes, i see it, but that's not the issue here. superman suddenly amping isn't to do with PIS or people loving him, it's a part of his character that his strength (among other things) is somewhat dynamic.
when he gets mad/determined, he gets stronger. it's been shown plenty of times.
Originally posted by -Pr-
yes, i see it, but that's not the issue here. superman suddenly amping isn't to do with PIS or people loving him, it's a part of his character that his strength (among other things) is somewhat dynamic.when he gets mad/determined, he gets stronger. it's been shown plenty of times.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Carver does make a valid point... Supes will always win based on feats but that doesn't mean people can't hang or beat him that are around his level or higher. Feats aren't everything and nothing else looked at.
Feats are i very important though, and so are fights against similar opponents
Originally posted by -Pr-I am not saying he doesn't but this doesn't prove he beats Adam. Superman also has a weakness to magic so I give the edge to Adam based on their stalemate.
yes, i see it, but that's not the issue here. superman suddenly amping isn't to do with PIS or people loving him, it's a part of his character that his strength (among other things) is somewhat dynamic.when he gets mad/determined, he gets stronger. it's been shown plenty of times.
Originally posted by jalek moye
Feats are i very important though, and so are fights against similar opponents
I agree... HOwever, they need to be viewed in context along with other stuff like comments on characters by other characters.
For example, superman admits that CM is his equal in strength and even has the edge in h2h battles via magic. So, we clearly have seen their fights play out and it fits perfectly in line with what supes says. Yet if we just go by feats supes would wtf pwn CM right? Well, sorry but common sense and Supes own words to me are just as important if not more as feats in a head to head battle between the two.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I agree... HOwever, they need to be viewed in context along with other stuff like comments on characters by other characters.For example, superman admits that CM is his equal in strength and even has the edge in h2h battles via magic. So, we clearly have seen their fights play out and it fits perfectly in line with what supes says. Yet if we just go by feats supes would wtf pwn CM right? Well, sorry but common sense and Supes own words to me are just as important if not more as feats in a head to head battle between the two.
But Superman stalemates marvel all the time, so it seems that marvel mught actually be weaker with just the magic edge.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Carver does make a valid point... Supes will always win based on feats but that doesn't mean people can't hang or beat him that are around his level or higher. Feats aren't everything and nothing else looked at.
it is a valid point, i don't think anyone could deny that. at the same time, we have to use both feats and common sense in debates. you can't use one and not the other.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not saying he doesn't but this doesn't prove he beats Adam. Superman also has a weakness to magic so I give the edge to Adam based on their stalemate.
i never said it proves it, but to me, having seen Superman push himself further, imo that's enough for him to beat Adam. besides, its not like he's never fought magical beings before.
Originally posted by jalek moye
But Superman stalemates marvel all the time, so it seems that marvel mught actually be weaker with just the magic edge.
I agree with this supes stalemates marvel and I actually think marvel has beaten supes before BUT its kind of hard to come up with a deciding edge in there battles because both are holding back.
The thing about this fight is Adam is just as durable as supes BOTH are durable BUT black adam durability would remain just that, true durability whereas adam punches would get past supes bio force field due to magic.
By the way, raoul, I'm about to find those scans I promised you, be back.
Originally posted by carver9
I agree with this supes stalemates marvel and I actually think marvel has beaten supes before BUT its kind of hard to come up with a deciding edge in there battles because both are holding back.The thing about this fight is Adam is just as durable as supes BOTH are durable BUT black adam durability would remain just that, true durability whereas adam punches would get past supes bio force field due to magic.
By the way, raoul, I'm about to find those scans I promised you, be back.
he still has super dense skin. it isn't just the aura.