What if the Empire invaded the FOTJ era galaxy

Before you guys all scream GE, let's think about it:

Although the Imperial Remnant has fewer resources and manpower than the GE at it's height, it's not like as if it's technological level has somehow fallen after Palpatine's death. They still had access to the same weaponry, they just didn't have the resources to produce as much of them. So in the next 40 years they would've surpassed the old GE TECHNOLOGY WISE, although that probably wouldn't be enough to solo the GE.

Also, by FOTJ most CW/early imperial era ships were so obsolete that Caedus called a fleet of them "a flying junkyard". Meanwhile, at the time of the GE the rebels stole and reactivated lots of CW era ships such as the LAAT and used them to great effect vs the Empire, thus proving that at that time the ships/weapons weren't yet a flying junkyard.

Therefore it can be concluded that at this point the galaxy had advanced beyond the GE technology wise.

If the entire Imperial fleet were to face off against the entire Galactic Alliance and Remnant fleets, then I think it would come down to who was commanding each side.

If it was Vader in charge of the Imperials, than there's a good chance that the GA could pull off an impressive strategy to overcome Vader's tactic of brute force and overwhelming numbers---though that style could conversely shock the GA in submission. If it was Thrawn, then the numerically superior, and not-too-far-behind-in-technology Imperials would win. No doubts.

However, numbers count for a lot, despite what Thrawn says. I'm too lazy to go looking for it, but can someone post a link or a scan stating the GA and Remnant's fighting strength circa 40 ABY?

Well the Galactic Empire got beaten by the rebel alliance, the predecessor to the GFFA. After Palpatine died, the Empire more or less collapsed and the New Republic was able to reclaim most of the galaxy. So Luke just goes and kills Palapatine and all is done.

How come Thrawn didn't beat the Rebels?

And this isn't just a space battle, land wise the combined might of the GFFA, Remnant, Hapans, Condederation, Jedi, etc. would pwn the "I can't kill ewoks" stormtroopers.

Hey, I have a question:

Wouldn't people who converted like Daala be fighting the younger version of herself? since Daala is helping the new republic against Jacen (right? I'm not sure what her current status is since she sentenced Luke to exile) But people who used to serve the empire may be fighting their younger incarnations. (like mara jade)

Also, GE would have starkiller, vader, emperor, mara jade, and other power force users. They might potentially fight the Jedi of the other era.

w/e.
I'm confused. lol

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Well the Galactic Empire got beaten by the rebel alliance, the predecessor to the GFFA. After Palpatine died, the Empire more or less collapsed and the New Republic was able to reclaim most of the galaxy. So Luke just goes and kills Palapatine and all is done.

How come Thrawn didn't beat the Rebels?

And this isn't just a space battle, land wise the combined might of the GFFA, Remnant, Hapans, Condederation, Jedi, etc. would pwn the "I can't kill ewoks" stormtroopers.

The Galactic Empire wasn't "beaten" by the Rebels. Their Emperor's arrogance and overconfidence cost the Empire both him, Vader, a second Death Star, an Executor, and a number of other ISDs at Endor. The entire Rebel fleet took part at Endor, and they lost over 10% of their forces there. Meanwhile the rest of the GE still possessed a galaxy of resources, manpower, and military assets. However, with no strong central figure to keep the Empire united, it fractured in to warlordism. I think it was Daala or Pellaeon who stated that if they hadn't fractured, the Rebels would have been destroyed regardless of Palaptine's absence, and that they had spent more time and resources fighting each other then they had the fledgling New Republic.

And the Empire DID succeed and win under Thrawn. During Zahn's trilogy Thrawn only lost one engagement, and it was a small one. He took back a large chunk of territory the Republic had won, and he wasn't going to be stopped any time soon either. He failed due to being killed by his bodyguard in a sneak attack, just like... whatdyaknow... Palpatine. Overconfidence=bad for the bad guys.

Palpatine's reemergence shortly afterward took back even more territory. Even Coruscant was retaken during this time period. He had been hoarding forces, supplies, and in formation from Thrawn and the warlords, something which no doubt hindered them even further. And once again, defeated via sabotage and betrayal.

The Empire's war machine was MASSIVE. "The Emperor's army is infinite." "Credits, starships, Imperial lives; they all mean nothing (to Vader)." A galaxy was at the Empire's command, not some lone factory. The Galactic Alliance was shattered in the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, as was the Remnant. And neither side, regardless of political circumstances, was a type of government like the one Palpatine lead: ruthless, tyrannical, oppressive, and followers of the Tarkin doctrine. 40+ years of technology and less than 100 Jedi (albeit powerful ones) here. That's not enough to overwhelm the most powerful military in the galaxy's history, nor enough to defeat it's most powerful Sith, nor enough to outsmart it's most brilliant tactician.

You are sexy.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You've been doing so well lately, don't venture out in those waters again.

This isn't a spite thread, I am simply arguing to the best of my abilities. I still don't know who will win however.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

The Galactic Empire wasn't "beaten" by the Rebels. Their Emperor's arrogance and overconfidence cost the Empire both him, Vader, a second Death Star, an Executor, and a number of other ISDs at Endor. The entire Rebel fleet took part at Endor, and they lost over 10% of their forces there. Meanwhile the rest of the GE still possessed a galaxy of resources, manpower, and military assets. However, with no strong central figure to keep the Empire united, it fractured in to warlordism. I think it was Daala or Pellaeon who stated that if they hadn't fractured, the Rebels would have been destroyed regardless of Palaptine's absence, and that they had spent more time and resources fighting each other then they had the fledgling New Republic.

What you are saying is basically that the GE only lost because of overconfidence, and that that is somehow an excuse. Are you saying that overconfidence shouldn't factor into the equation? If they lost due to overconfidence in every single war that they've been in then what stops them from getting overconfident in THIS engagement as well?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

The Empire's war machine was MASSIVE. "The Emperor's army is infinite." "Credits, starships, Imperial lives; they all mean nothing (to Vader)." A galaxy was at the Empire's command, not some lone factory. The Galactic Alliance was shattered in the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, as was the Remnant. And neither side, regardless of political circumstances, was a type of government like the one Palpatine lead: ruthless, tyrannical, oppressive, and followers of the Tarkin doctrine. 40+ years of technology and less than 100 Jedi (albeit powerful ones) here. That's not enough to overwhelm the most powerful military in the galaxy's history, nor enough to defeat it's most powerful Sith, nor enough to outsmart it's most brilliant tactician.

Less than 100 jedi?????? 😕 more like several thousand. And the ruthless, tyrannial, oppressive government of the GE ultimately proved to be it's DOWNFALL.

Anyway, I don't know who will win.

Hewhoknowsall
This isn't a spite thread, I am simply arguing to the best of my abilities. I still don't know who will win however.

He
What you are saying is basically that the GE only lost because of overconfidence, and that that is somehow an excuse. Are you saying that overconfidence shouldn't factor into the equation? If they lost due to overconfidence in every single war that they've been in then what stops them from getting overconfident in THIS engagement as well?

He
Less than 100 jedi?????? 😕 more like several thousand.

He
And the ruthless, tyrannial, oppressive government of the GE ultimately proved to be it's DOWNFALL.

He
Anyway, I don't know who will win.

Empire.

Originally posted by Eminence
Empire.

[/i]

Care to explain why?

Originally posted by Eminence

We don't argue PIS.

So politics and human physiological state is PIS?

Originally posted by Eminence

No.

Yes.

Originally posted by Eminence

Which is completely irrelevant here.

No it's not, because Grand Strategy/politics should be factored in.

Originally posted by Eminence

facepalm

Empire.

Care to explain why?

He
Care to explain why?

Lucien
The Empire's war machine was MASSIVE. "The Emperor's army is infinite." "Credits, starships, Imperial lives; they all mean nothing (to Vader)." A galaxy was at the Empire's command, not some lone factory. The Galactic Alliance was shattered in the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, as was the Remnant. And neither side, regardless of political circumstances, was a type of government like the one Palpatine lead: ruthless, tyrannical, oppressive, and followers of the Tarkin doctrine. 40+ years of technology and less than 100 Jedi (albeit powerful ones) here. That's not enough to overwhelm the most powerful military in the galaxy's history, nor enough to defeat it's most powerful Sith, nor enough to outsmart it's most brilliant tactician.

He
So politics and human physiological state is PIS?

You've been here for the better part of a year, this isn't news.

He
Yes.

Look up what you don't know; don't argue out of ignorance.

He
No it's not, because Grand Strategy/politics should be factored in.

He
Care to explain why?

He

The Empire's war machine was MASSIVE. "The Emperor's army is infinite." "Credits, starships, Imperial lives; they all mean nothing (to Vader)." A galaxy was at the Empire's command, not some lone factory. The Galactic Alliance was shattered in the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, as was the Remnant. And neither side, regardless of political circumstances, was a type of government like the one Palpatine lead: ruthless, tyrannical, oppressive, and followers of the Tarkin doctrine. 40+ years of technology and less than 100 Jedi (albeit powerful ones) here. That's not enough to overwhelm the most powerful military in the galaxy's history, nor enough to defeat it's most powerful Sith, nor enough to outsmart it's most brilliant tactician.

Overconfidence seems to be the death of alot of sith............... And Mitth'raw'Nuruodo.

Wait...if morale isn't a factor in vs. threads, then how come in all of the Earth vs Empire threads Lucien blabbed about how a lot of nations would defect out of FEAR to the Empire and how our will would be broken and blah blah blah?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

---though that style could conversely shock the GA in submission.

Originally posted by Eminence
(so politics don't matter?)

(yes) As far as the Vs. forum is concerned.

You've been here for the better part of a year, this isn't news.

Huh?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

The Empire's war machine was MASSIVE. "The Emperor's army is infinite." "Credits, starships, Imperial lives; they all mean nothing (to Vader)." A galaxy was at the Empire's command, not some lone factory. The Galactic Alliance was shattered in the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, as was the Remnant. And neither side, regardless of political circumstances, was a type of government like the one Palpatine lead: ruthless, tyrannical, oppressive, and followers of the Tarkin doctrine. 40+ years of technology and less than 100 Jedi (albeit powerful ones) here. That's not enough to overwhelm the most powerful military in the galaxy's history, nor enough to defeat it's most powerful Sith, nor enough to outsmart it's most brilliant tactician.

Of course lives don't mean shi*t to Vader! None would except for his own.

It's been quite a while since the Vong came, and while they are still bebuilding they aren't "shattered" and in ruins.

So what if the GE was more oppresive? Does that somehow give them an advantage?

40+ years of tech is quite a bit: take an up to date (USA, Germany, Russia, Britain) WW2 army and they omgwtf pwn an army from 1900. Take America from the 80s and they would omgwtf pwn Nazi Germany, as a (only slightly) later version of them did to a country using soviet tech from the 60s/70s (NOT 40s) in just 4 days. By now CW/early imperial era ships were considered to be "a flying junkyard".

"most powerful sith"? Where have you been? There were only 2 sith, and Luke is stronger than both of them.

Anyway, this is still debatable.

Are we forgetting Caedus and his battle meditation? If this is FOTJ and pre 2nd Galactic Civil War, then the GA stands a good chance of victory. And if this is FOTJ Luke, then the Emperor would have a hell of a time defeating him. But Caedus would kill the Emperor first because Caedus is trying to 'protect' the galaxy.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
It's been quite a while since the Vong came, and while they are still bebuilding they aren't "shattered" and in ruins.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So what if the GE was more oppresive? Does that somehow give them an advantage?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
40+ years of tech is quite a bit: take an up to date (USA, Germany, Russia, Britain) WW2 army and they omgwtf pwn an army from 1900. Take America from the 80s and they would omgwtf pwn Nazi Germany, as a (only slightly) later version of them did to a country using soviet tech from the 60s/70s (NOT 40s) in just 4 days. By now CW/early imperial era ships were considered to be "a flying junkyard".

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
"most powerful sith"? Where have you been? There were only 2 sith, and Luke is stronger than both of them.

JUST BEFORE I START: Lucien, note that there are no hard feelings to you from me, so let's try and not flame eachother to death, OK?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
365 trillion dead, whole planets, including Coruscant were terraformed. The JEdi numbers decimated. They were shattered, and no civilization, even a Star Wars one, recovers within only a few decades to take on the most powerful armada in recorded history.

They aren't fully recovered, but their military has more or less gone back to normal, and they aren't going bankrupt or anything.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

I was trying to edify on you on the methods and reasons behind the statistics before you pulled a bayhunter and came up with some random number as to how many capital ships the opposition had.

...

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

Thank God the Galactic Empire at it's height wasn't the early Empire, and thank God we're not talking about the Republic during the Clone Wars. And thank the Allies that this is Star Wars, and not the 60 year interregnum between Nazi Germany and 21st century Earth. By your very rationale, the huge technological leap you claim occurred during the 40 year period between RotJ and LotF should have been seen in the 4,000 years between KotOR and RotJ. Seeing as how spaceships still have laser cannons, lightsabers are still used by Jedi, wrist-mounted rockets are still used by bounty hunters, and the Force hasn't transubstantiated all life in to pure energy...

In case you haven't read the OP, this is ROTJ Empire, NOT the Empire at it's height (or is the ROTJ Empire at it's height?)

"thank god"? No offense, but you really are a big Emipre fanboy. When you watched Star Wars for the first time, were you rooting for the evil Empire to win? "thank god" that the Empire was powerful and hard to beat???

Early imperial era/republic era ships = a flying junkyard by LOTF.
Early imperial era/reupblic era ships = used by rebels against Imperials, and Imperials still used some of it.

All in all, in space Empire has them beat, but in land the combined might of the entire galaxy has the Empire beat.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
JUST BEFORE I START: Lucien, note that there are no hard feelings to you from me, so let's try and not flame eachother to death, OK?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
They aren't fully recovered, but their military has more or less gone back to normal, and they aren't going bankrupt or anything.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
In case you haven't read the OP, this is ROTJ Empire, NOT the Empire at it's height (or is the ROTJ Empire at it's height?)

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
"thank god"? No offense, but you really are a big Emipre fanboy. When you watched Star Wars for the first time, were you rooting for the evil Empire to win? "thank god" that the Empire was powerful and hard to beat???

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Early imperial era/republic era ships = a flying junkyard by LOTF.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
All in all, in space Empire has them beat, but in land the combined might of the entire galaxy has the Empire beat.

That's funny that the ROTJ Empire would be at it's height if ROTJ was the LAST DAYS of the Empire. It was the Empire right before their fall, and after having raged an internal war for quite a while.

Yeah, it's ****ing hilarious.

Are you actually going to make a case for the GA or are you just planning on continuing to fail at playing Devil's advocate?

Originally posted by Eminence
Yeah, it's ****ing hilarious.

Are you actually going to make a case for the GA or are you just planning on continuing to fail at playing Devil's advocate?

Are you actually going to make a case for the Empire or are you just planning on quoting Lucien whenever I ask you to explain?