Originally posted by Robtard
Edit: I should add, this is what I read, not first hand experience, as I've never had a job where tipping was the norm.
going from what servers have told me, again just sort of word of mouth, that is the case.
Most places, at least around here, only get away with maybe a dollar or 2 off of min wage (though lots of places don't pay it in full anyways...), but afaik most tips are pooled. [I guess that was more at The Dark Cloud]
though, ya, not first hand experience
Originally posted by The Dark CloudIn my experience, it is true. Every place that my friends, brothers, and I have worked out, its all been shared. Now, I give you that its not a mandatory practice, but management does enforce it at most places. Maybe not where you're from, but where I grew up? There are few and far places between that allow their servers to keep their own tips.
That isn't true, most food servers keep all of their own tips. In some places they tip out bartenders and busboys but still keep most of their own.Casino dealers are another story, they are forced to split all of their tips with other dealers and in some cases, management.
Edit: But, sure, that might not be the norm, so I give you that me saying "most," is a fallacious statement, but it does happen.
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Yeah, in most states they get $2.01 an hour, that's a real high wage isn't it.A few have to pay federal minimum which is now $7.25.
Somehow, you don't strike me as someone who has ever been in any type of expensive or silver service restaurant.
It's just stupid to even suggest that professional waiters in fancy hotels and expensive restaurants are paid the same basic wage as some dumb ass at a bar or some ''restaurant'' where you can get away with having a meal for pissing $20.
Sad, really. For you, of course.
Originally posted by lil bitchinessYeah, I don't know where he got that from. There are some servers in restaurants who get paid a bunch and don't need to rely on tips.
Somehow, you don't strike me as someone who has ever been in any type of expensive or silver service restaurant.It's just stupid to even suggest that professional waiters in fancy hotels and expensive restaurants are paid the same basic wage as some dumb ass at a bar or some ''restaurant'' where you can get away with having a meal for pissing $20.
Sad, really. For you, of course.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Somehow, you don't strike me as someone who has ever been in any type of expensive or silver service restaurant.It's just stupid to even suggest that professional waiters in fancy hotels and expensive restaurants are paid the same basic wage as some dumb ass at a bar or some ''restaurant'' where you can get away with having a meal for pissing $20.
Sad, really. For you, of course.
You know nothing about me. You continually slander me when it is YOU who know nothing about how the tipping system really works in the US. Most waitpersons in the US, whether they work at Denny's in Kansas, or Commanders palace in New Orleans, or Letuce in New York City, make whatever the federal or state minimum requirement for tipped employees is. In states that allow the federal tip credit these waitpersons make $2.01 an hour or very close to it. Some states, such as California and Nevada, do not allow the tip credit and require even tipped employees to be paid federal minimum wage of $7.25. The only time said employees, even the ones which work in your "expensive silver service restauraunt" make more than said garbage wages is when they are UNION, and most of them aren't. Tips are their livelehood,whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.
BTW, I worked as a tipped employee as a waiter, bartender, and casino dealer in Vegas from 1979 to 1991 so I know very well how the tipping system works.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
It's just stupid to even suggest that professional waiters in fancy hotels and expensive restaurants are paid the same basic wage as some dumb ass at a bar or some ''restaurant'' where you can get away with having a meal for pissing $20.
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Yeah, I don't know where he got that from. There are some servers in restaurants who get paid a bunch and don't need to rely on tips.
touche, and in those cases, the argument that it augments low wages is likely not true.
In these cases, it is just the social norm to do such. But lets not pretend that these are even a sizable fraction of server positions available, and I'd be willing to stake a claim that more servers are being paid under min wage then over.
The compensatory salary part aside, way to point out a social mannerism that makes no sense. I don't see why people get so up in arms about tipping. Have you ever been pissed that people expect you to excuse yourself if you burp or fart? I can't think of a situation where an expected tip has caused me any financial issues...
Do you really think that an outside observer of Europe couldn't find social norms that don't make empirical sense? It just seems like a really cheap thing to complain about, but then again, that is my illogical culture speaking.
Originally posted by inimalist
going from what servers have told me, again just sort of word of mouth, that is the case.Most places, at least around here, only get away with maybe a dollar or 2 off of min wage (though lots of places don't pay it in full anyways...), but afaik most tips are pooled. [I guess that was more at The Dark Cloud]
though, ya, not first hand experience
Friend's father owns a few restaurants, he's in Canada right now, I'll ask him when he gets back.
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
You know nothing about me. You continually slander me when it is YOU who know nothing about how the tipping system really works in the US. Most waitpersons in the US, whether they work at Denny's in Kansas, or Commanders palace in New Orleans, or Letuce in New York City, make whatever the federal or state minimum requirement for tipped employees is. In states that allow the federal tip credit these waitpersons make $2.01 an hour or very close to it. Some states, such as California and Nevada, do not allow the tip credit and require even tipped employees to be paid federal minimum wage of $7.25. The only time said employees, even the ones which work in your "expensive silver service restauraunt" make more than said garbage wages is when they are UNION, and most of them aren't. Tips are their livelehood,whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.BTW, I worked as a tipped employee as a waiter, bartender, and casino dealer in Vegas from 1979 to 1991 so I know very well how the tipping system works.
I agree on fact.
If you work at a higher caliber restaurant, you make more money.
15% of 100 is > 15% of $40.
Do you see what I'm sayin' here?
I tried to get a job at this fancy place because my cousin worked there. She made double what I did. It's all in the [t]ips. (Happy Gilmore reference, FTW.)
Depending on the customer, if you give excellent service, you're more likely to get a larger tip in proportion to the amount of money the meal costs. (I'm referring, of course, to a fancy place, relative to a average place.)
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
In my experience, it is true. Every place that my friends, brothers, and I have worked out, its all been shared. Now, I give you that its not a mandatory practice, but management does enforce it at most places. Maybe not where you're from, but where I grew up? There are few and far places between that allow their servers to keep their own tips.Edit: But, sure, that might not be the norm, so I give you that me saying "most," is a fallacious statement, but it does happen.
Can you please give specific examples of establishments that do that. I don't doubt it does happen with some servers but It's very rare. I was in that business for a long time, starting out in Washington DC and then Las Vegas. My sister did it in the 80s and 90s in both California and Colorado. And having worked in Vegas in it I had the opportunity to meet people from all over the world who were in the business. I've never heard any one of them (who worked in the US) say they worked in a place where waitpersons shared tips (tipping out busboys and bartenders doesn't count).
Dealers are another matter.
Btw, I've also never heard of even the upscale estblishments, who were non union, and in the US, that paid waitpersons any higher than minimum wage.
Originally posted by inimalist
But lets not pretend that these are even a sizable fraction of server positions available, and I'd be willing to stake a claim that more servers are being paid under min wage then over.
I would never pretend about something like that. I know its very few servers who make a living off of their wages without being supplemented by tips, that's why I said "some." I would also make that bet, as well. Oh, and just because I agreed with her on that one statement, not that I think you're implying anything differently but just for the record, I do tip and I don't think its ruining the economic fabric.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree on fact.If you work at a higher caliber restaurant, you make more money.
15% of 100 is > 15% of $40.
Do you see what I'm sayin' here?
I tried to get a job at this fancy place because my cousin worked there. She made double what I did. It's all in the [t]ips. (Happy Gilmore reference, FTW.)
Depending on the customer, if you give excellent service, you're more likely to get a larger tip in proportion to the amount of money the meal costs.
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
You're missing the point. You do make more money in better establishments.....[b]because the tips are better Some here are claiming they get higher wages, which isn't true. [/B]
I didn't mean to post "I disagree".
I meant to say, "I agree".
I edited my post to reflect that.
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
You're missing the point. You do make more money in better establishments.....[b]because the tips are better Some here are claiming they get higher wages, which isn't true. [/B]
I would have just assumed, but it makes more sense that they would pay min or as low as possible.
For the longest time, at least around where I lived, places like McDonalds and Tim Horton's (probably not a good reference on an American dominated forum) were standardly paying new employees less than minimum.
I know its changing, but our min wage is also going up, so it might just be the shuffling around before it sets into a new trend.
Not that this is overly relevant, just to say that even companies that don't have their servers receiving tips will pay as low as possible.
Originally posted by The Dark CloudBut isn't it, generally speaking, more likely that servers who work at higher-up restaurants get less tables and less hours, thereby decreasing the difference between a server who waits on a hundred dollar table than a server who waits on two 45 dollar tables? But, of course, the people who go to upscale restaurants tend to have more money and may, on occasion, give more than fifteen or twenty percent, so I guess it depends on the situation.
You're missing the point. You do make more money in better establishments.....[b]because the tips are better Some here are claiming they get higher wages, which isn't true. [/B]
Originally posted by dadudemon
Same here.I've never heard of Union workers, ever, in the waiting industry.
Actually there are a number of union waitpersons in places like Las Vegas, NYC, San Fran, Wash DC, LA. They usually work in food establishments in hotels. It's very rare in freestanding resteraunts.
Originally posted by Darth Macabre
But isn't it, generally speaking, more likely that servers who work at higher-up restaurants get less tables and less hours, thereby decreasing the difference between a server who waits on a hundred dollar table than a server who waits on two 45 dollar tables? But, of course, the people who go to upscale restaurants tend to have more money and may, on occasion, give more than fifteen or twenty percent, so I guess it depends on the situation.
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
In America, you can make closer to $40,000 a year at a nice place. It's more stressful and it requires you to be smarter, but if you're good, you can make good money.