Tipping servers and other job items with money motivation.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Canada has a near identical tipping culture to the US, so you saying the service is much worse in Canada kinda destroys your own argument, doesn't it? Makes me very sceptical as to the value of the extensive travel you claim.

It's also ridiculous to call her attitude condescending. It's not condesending to expect someome paid to do their job to do their job without additional 'encouragement' from you, doubly so when the practise is weirdly confinded to certain areas only.

I'm with Lil. Tipping actually makes me acutely uncomfortable, and the idea that it is socially unacceptable to NOT tip is hideous. Simple peer pressure bullying.

Canada does not have the same tipping culture the US does. Tipping in Canada is more common than in Europe but not as extensive as in the US. Years ago when I worked in the Las Vegas casino industry we had a saying..."What's the difference between Canoes and Canadians?...Canoes tip"

I know not all Canadians or Europeans are cheap, some tip quite well. There are also many cheap Americans.

I'll add I know quite about service in the UK as well. My sister lives in North Yorkshire so I visit your country every year and know firsthand how service there is as well. In general it is average by American standards, though it has been good on some occasions and really crappy on others. The people always seem genuinely thankful when I leave them a tip.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Again- this is simply bullying me for my money.

Less so than paying for anything else, actually.

And our social problems don't come from tipping, them come from people thinking that society should fall in line with them so quickly. The closest thing we have to real rebels any more is whiny little children.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You think it is something that needs proving? If you cannot see how something so arbitrary, unfair and socially nauseating ias a bad thing then that is your own problem.

And your second sentence is a direct sytmpomn of this. So it is horrible to NOT tip now, is it?This whole thing which is absed aroudn giving someone extra for good service, voluntarily... now that's been twisted aroudn to the point where if you do not AUTOMATICALLY pay them, YOU are considered the horrible one? And should expect rude behaviour from professionals as a result? Again- this is simply bullying me for my money.

Seriously, this is the type of thing that causes problems in society, and I find your support of it frankly disturbing.

So you can't explain it?

It is horrible, considering you're asking for a service where tipping is already established. If the service is horrible, feel free to adjust the gratuity, or not tip at all, that's fine. No one's "bullying" you for money, as on one is forcing you to eat somewhere were tipping is the norm.

What exactly now causes problems for society? Tipping?

Sorry, Canada does have a tipping culture, and Ontario even has it written into its minimum wage laws, which si something you will only find done similarly in the US.

Meanwhile, all you are saying is... service differs depending on where you go. A tipping cukture makes bugger all difference to that.

Originally posted by inimalist
The word, however, is still "Minimalist". The awkwardness of it is half of the fun. But no, I invented it, so the "i" stays small.

K.

But you can't reneg on this and say I'm a tard for not capitalizing my sentences like a good little 2nd grader.

Originally posted by inimalist
thats offensive to a diabetic. Please be more careful

What? I'm totally lost.

Originally posted by inimalist
also, a couple of bowls and I'm more likely to type 3 paragraphs about why the M is decadent.

K.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Actually, you have just confirmed everything Ush said in regards to social bullying and peer pressure.

You stated that not tipping is 'rude and cheap behavior'. Which nicely illustrates Ush's point.

Wrong, utterly wrong.

Asking for a service where you know tipping is an established practice and then not tipping (providing the service was to your liking) is rude and cheap.

There's no bullying, unless you're being forced to ask for the service.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, Canada does have a tipping culture, and Ontario even has it written into its minimum wage laws, which si something you will only find done similarly in the US.

Meanwhile, all you are saying is... service differs depending on where you go. A tipping cukture makes bugger all difference to that.

Do you even read my posts? I agree, Canada does have a tipping culture, just not to the same extant the US does.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But you can't reneg on this and say I'm a tard for not capitalizing my sentences like a good little 2nd grader.

Capitalization is nothing but a concession to the evils of social pressure. In fact there's an element of bullying in that if you never capitalize things on your resume people might be unwilling to give you a job.

Originally posted by Robtard
So you can't explain it?

It is horrible, considering you're asking for a service where tipping is already established. If the service is horrible, feel free to adjust the gratuity, or not tip at all, that's fine. No one's "bullying" you for money, as on one is forcing you to eat somewhere were tipping is the norm.

What exactly now causes problems for society? Tipping?

I can and have explained it- you just simply cannot or will not acknowledge it.

The point is that making tipping something expected by default- that IS the horrible thing. And it IS bullying to expect me to tip by default. There is no other area in society where effectively blackmailing people for money in this way is acceptable. It's intensly aggravating that people want to calibrate it so tipping is the norm, but regardless of their pay structure it is absolutely wrong to expect people to pay tips by default.

I'd simply turn it around and say- if your job needs tip for you to make the money you need, then your job is contributing to that immorality and you should get out of it- preferably by being in one of the very many similar public service jobs where there is no cultural expectation of fleecing your customers for more money.

And if a service charge IS still necessary, then just include it in the damn bill rather than making this "you haven't paid me, now I am going to treat you like crap even though I am meant to be a professional" piece of bullshit.

And people like you are supporting this simple bullying immorality. Very sad, really.

And the fact of the after is that I do pay the tip, of course- precisely because of that emotional bullying. The same way I'd pay up iif I got mugged by someone with a gun. That people can find it acceptable though... mystifies me. One of those things that akes me worry about people.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Do you even read my posts? I agree, Canada does have a tipping culture, just not to the same extant the US does.

Ah, so now you admit that Canada does have a tipping culture, you can also freely admit that you saying that the service there was not as good kinda craps over your original point, doesn;t it?

Sorry, but everyone reading your original post can see it was based around the idea of tipping not being a Canadian thing, which explained your experiences of poor service there.

Your whole argument was undermined there.

Originally posted by Robtard
Wrong, utterly wrong.

Asking for a service where you know tipping is an established practice and then not tipping (providing the service was to your liking) is rude and cheap.

There's no bullying, unless you're being forced to ask for the service.

No, she is completely right, and expecting me to pay is completely wrong.

You are in the wrong- and are contributing to the bullying by supporting it.

Would be some sort of moral quandary if you happened to be serviced in some manner by a person who works solely on tips, ie that's their only income.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I can and have explained it- you just simply cannot or will not acknowledge it.

The point is that makign tipping something expected by default0- that IS the horrible thing. And it IS bullying to expect me to tip by default. There is no other area in society where efectively blackmailing people for money in this way is acceptable. It's intensly aggravating that people want to calibrate it so tipping is the norm, but regardless of their pay structure [b]it is absolutely wrong to expect people to pay tips by default.

I'd simply turn it around and say- if yuor job needs tip for you to make the money you need, then your job is contributing to that immorality and you shoudkl get out of it.

And if a service charge IS still necessary, then just include it in the damn bill rather than making this "you haven;t paid me, now I am goign to treat you like crap even though I am meant to be a professional" piece of bullshit.

And people like you are supporting this simple bullying immorality. Very sad, really.

And the fact of the after is that I do pay the tip, of course- precisely because of that emotional bullying. The same way I'd pay up iif I got mugged by someone with a gun. That people can find it acceptable though... mystifies me. One pof those things that akes me worry about people. [/B]

WOW...Just, WOW! Emotional bullying? Immoral?
The lengths some people will go to to justify being cheap. I don't think Robtard is the one needing worrying about

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, she is completely right, and expecting me to pay is completely wrong.

You are in the wrong- and are contributing to the bullying by supporting it.

I could say "no you're wrong", but that'd just be circular.

Until you can show me how you're being forced to both eat/ask for a service where tipping is expected, it's not bullying.

Like I said, no one's forcing you to leave a tip and nothing bad will happen to you if you don't. But I'd avoid going back to that eatery, just saying.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh right, I see, so people in other countries simply have no class. That's just offensive, not to mention ridiculous and wrong.
Tipping is an American custom rarely seen elsewhere as it is in North America.

[QUOTE=12128283]Originally posted by lil bitchiness
[B]I don't give a flying feck their wage is low. The law does not 'recognize their low wage' or any such thing - their wage is low BECAUSE they receive tons and tons of tips.

Objection, your honor. They do not get "tons and tons" of tips...unless they work at a t*tty bar and are serving the food/drinks topless with a side of lap-dance.

Being a server isn't a very good living. You can make more in most call centers. Trust me. Back in the day, I quit serving to go make more in a call center. 😐

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Hence government deducts 15% of their wage, whatever it is, because it cannot TAX the tip they get.

WHAT?

No. You are taxed on your tip income.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. The money you make per hour, pretty much all goes to taxes, because after your tips for the day are reported, the money you got paid per hour almost all goes to taxes.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This ridiculous custom has equated professional waiters with those who can't get a better job or collage student getting though school - which is even more offensive and wrong.

What?

I'm confused again.

What's wrong with being a server if you're a college student...or a dumbass.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Waiters elsewhere, trained waiters, have higher wage, because they don't depend on charity and begging in order to do their job.
It's demeaning and pathetic and hence considered quite rude in many parts of the world.

But, you see, to us, it's demeaning and pathetic to treat your servers so poorly, regardless of their wage. There's no better way to show your satisfaction of service by bonusing the person who rendered services. A thank you is empty and meaningless. But a crisp 20 isn't. It actually means something.

I don't know why this is causing the debate it is. You tip at the end. If the service is shit then don't tip and don't go back.

I've even, on occassion, said to a waiter who gave a really crap service (regardless of whether the food is good) "Here's a tip for you...stop being such a miserable, useless **** and maybe you'd make more money" and then walked out without paying. Anyone tries to stop you then you just say you're not paying because the service is utterly terrible.

Originally posted by Robtard
Would be some sort of moral quandary if you happened to be serviced in some manner by a person who works solely on tips, ie that's their only income.

Asking for any sort of payment is social bullying. Sometimes if you leave without paying they'll send the fvcking cops after you. You can actually end up in jail for conceding to this social bullying that is so deeply embedded in our culture.

Robtard-

If you cannot see how people are socially obligated to pay up then you are either being blind or willfully obstructive to the argument- in which case, I will pay you no futher attention. All reasonable people know that that scial expectation is there.

Originally posted by jaden101
I don't know why this is causing the debate it is. You tip at the end. If the service is shit then don't tip and don't go back.

Exactly. 👆

Originally posted by Ushgarak
obtard-

If you cannot see how people are socially obligated to pay up then you are either being blind or willfully obstructive to the argument- in which case, I will pay you no futher attention. All reasonable people know that that scial expectation is there.

Originally posted by Robtard

Like I said, no one's forcing you to leave a tip and nothing bad will happen to you if you don't. But I'd avoid going back to that eatery, just saying.