Is more technology the answer?

ya dont like'm?

Originally posted by 753
ya dont like'm?

Things like "will of stars" is a stillborn pathetic fallacy because it attempts to ascribe an emotion or human trait to an inanimate thing in a way that can't be pictured. I see this kind of thing a lot in "cosmic" poets.

An example of a good use of the pathetic fallacy (at least I think it is), is in Jean Toomer's Cane, where he has the line

"Pine shadows are dreams the sun shakes from its eyes"

where the sun is actually rising and thus the length of the shadows are steadily shrinking as it climbs higher in the sky.

Edit: I'll agree though that Dolos sounds more like a poet than a scientist. Maybe he should try writing science fiction.

right, but then it is only a matter of how well done it is. I actually liked his will of the stars as it evoked an image of entities eternally burning in the void.

Originally posted by 753
right, but then it is only a matter of how well done it is. I actually liked his will of the stars as it evoked an image of entities eternally burning in the void.

See, I didn't get that. To me when I hear "will of stars" I think of some kind of astral prophecy, or space gods. "Persistence of stars" sounds better to me, and isn't necessarily a pathetic fallacy, also you'd get double alliteration with "patience of stone", not to mention a possible reference to the always incredible Dresden Files by Jim Butcher ("Stars and Stones!"😉

No one grasped anything beyond my Sith Emperor quote, my real argument was illusory.

Perhaps my plans are genuinely too complex for others, and that makes things easier.

My reply to 753, Oliver North and Omega Vision's conclusions about why humanity is more likely to misuse singularity tech than not, was that there is always going to be infinite 'probabilities' or potential futures where humanity doesn't, infinite probabilities where they do very specific things to very specific and desirable outcomes. That the innovations of technology and evolution in such a manner has no limitations, and cannot be limited by the laws of physics as they are sophisticated enough to do anything. The idea of infinite potentialities culminates infinite possibilities and capabilities of science, technology, and the thing called consciousness, which is created by the brain yes, but is quite separate from it on a physical level.

no. only social reorganization can halt and reverse the ecological crisis and erradicate food insecurity.

Originally posted by Jennifer613
no. only social reorganization can halt and reverse the ecological crisis and erradicate food insecurity.

Yes. Exactly.

Humans have their own inane agendas based on random patterns or whatever appeals to them at the moment, on average. Their actions reflect a very complicated and chaotic pattern spanning a sporadic 7 billion lives - one massive puzzle.

I think the fictional character Adrian Veidt or Emperor Palpatine would simply play some puppets, pull the strings - and manipulate the effect of their actions to a desired outcome, and use that to create innumerous more desirable outcomes.

I believe it's called probability manipulation. Humans don't want to do wrong, they think they're doing right and most desire to do so. However, their goals and triffles and daily struggles and triumphs, are a matter of self-centered perspective, and very humbly relativistic.

Originally posted by Dolos
No one grasped anything beyond my Sith Emperor quote, my real argument was illusory.

Perhaps my plans are genuinely too complex for others, and that makes things easier.

Originally posted by Dolos
No one grasped anything beyond my Sith Emperor quote, my real argument was illusory.

Perhaps my plans are genuinely too complex for others, and that makes things easier.

or, you have poor communication skills

Originally posted by Dolos
I think the fictional character Adrian Veidt or Emperor Palpatine would simply play some puppets, pull the strings - and manipulate the effect of their actions to a desired outcome, and use that to create innumerous more desirable outcomes.

Both of those are very poor examples.

Originally posted by Dolos
My reply to 753, Oliver North and Omega Vision's conclusions about why humanity is more likely to misuse singularity tech than not, was that there is always going to be infinite 'probabilities' or potential futures where humanity doesn't, infinite probabilities where they do very specific things to very specific and desirable outcomes.

That the innovations of technology and evolution in such a manner has no limitations, and cannot be limited by the laws of physics as they are sophisticated enough to do anything.

The idea of infinite potentialities culminates infinite possibilities and capabilities of science, technology, and the thing called consciousness, which is created by the brain yes, but is quite separate from it on a physical level. [/B]

Originally posted by Jennifer613
no. only social reorganization can halt and reverse the ecological crisis and erradicate food insecurity.

Originally posted by Dolos
Yes. Exactly.

Humans have their own inane agendas based on random patterns or whatever appeals to them at the moment, on average. Their actions reflect a very complicated and chaotic pattern spanning a sporadic 7 billion lives - one massive puzzle.

I think the fictional character Adrian Veidt or Emperor Palpatine would simply play some puppets, pull the strings - and manipulate the effect of their actions to a desired outcome, and use that to create innumerous more desirable outcomes.

I believe it's called probability manipulation. Humans don't want to do wrong, they think they're doing right and most desire to do so. However, their goals and triffles and daily struggles and triumphs, are a matter of self-centered perspective, and very humbly relativistic.

human motivations are neither random nor merely fleeting .

palpatine and veidt, wth whom you obvisouly and hilariously identify with, are fiction. what you're getting at is impossible and, seriously, how well do you think you'd do at designing social engineering policies, dolos?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
YouTube video

I love that movie.

Originally posted by 753
👆 smartest thing anyone has posted in this thread

Uh huh, I'd say it answers OP, and only because it did aid my rant.

Originally posted by 753
you're thinking of infinite possibilities. probabilities aren't infinite, they vary between 0, no chance of an event, and 1, certainty of an event. possibilities aren't infinite either, as they are constrained by physical reality and all that is finite about it, like the amount of thermodynamic free energy available in any given system. but at least you won't sound dumb when you say possibilities are infinite.

except that they aren't, 'cause, you know, physics

I wont even go into the whole brain/mind thing, but you should realize that science and technology have no inifinite capabiltities, because, you know, physics.

You're living in the now.

At the moment, there are outcomes that are perhaps beyond one's grasp, no matter how inclined they make themselves.

But that is only because, at the moment, in the now, our consciousness is being actively limited by our brains, which can only directly manipulate certain functions of the human body. Such as muscle movement, et cetra. Imagine a consciousness that could directly manipulate particles with superpositions. I believe a thread about this was made.

Originally posted by 753
the funniest thing here is how you separate yourself from them humans.

human motivations are neither random nor merely fleeting .

palpatine and veidt, wth whom you obvisouly and hilariously identify with, are fiction. what you're getting at is impossible and, seriously, how well do you think you'd do at designing social engineering policies, dolos?

As for where I'm at now. Hell no, God no.

The future has no limits, and neither does consciousness. However, technology can be changed radically from what you think you know about its 'limitations'.

There is some argument as to whether or not technology does have an omega point.

You don't know if it is beyond the parameters of technology to make consciousness transferable from brain to femto-chip to an omnipresent and abstract quantum functions. 4D tech. I don't know what I'm talking about given...I'm not afraid to be wrong. 😛

I aspire to Palps and Veidt for being self-fulling prophecies of anomalous grandiose within their respective realms of fiction. Fictions, I might add, gives you personalities that do not conform to the norm.

Originally posted by Dolos
You don't know if it is beyond the parameters of technology to make consciousness transferable from brain to femto-chip to an omnipresent and abstract quantum functions. 4D tech. I don't know what I'm talking about given...I'm not afraid to be wrong. 😛

what you are talking about, and I think this has been brought up before in the thread, in this case is not a matter of technology.

Putting someone's brain into a computer, especially in how you are describing it, assumes a sort of dualism that doesn't exist. ie: without the sensory systems and other low-level processing that would be jettisoned by such a chip, you wouldn't be you. And I don't mean this in a "your-personality-will-change" sort of way, I mean all of the things you think are important (reason, logic, etc) are not possible without, for instance, vision from two eyes with 3 chromatic receptors and a luminance detector, arranged with specific densities in the fovea, the more central retina and peripheries.

I'm not just being pedantic here either. You can't separate some of the brain's processes from others, and just put the ones you want on a chip. The real hurdle to what you want to do is figuring out how to simulate or replace these systems and still end up with something reasonably similar in terms of personality and behaviour. You can believe it or not, but this isn't a problem that simply saying "Magic" [sorry], "Technology" will solve.

EDIT: for instance, you realize that "consciousness" itself does not exist as a singular thing, and in fact, I am among a fairly sizable number of people in the field who would say that consciousness either doesn't exist at all, or that it only exists as a shorthand for people to talk about a cognitive experience that arises emergently from other processes. In no way could "consciousness" be transferred from point A to B. The best you could say is "The systems that give rise to what we would call consciousness need to be transferred", in which case, see above.

Essentially as we get these nanites to augment our bodily functions, more and more of our body becomes cybernetic, smart skin, keeping the perpetually retreating organic parts that we are young and superhuman, then eventually transforming our organs into itself. Last to go is the brain. More and more of our cognitive functions will fleet into the neurocites, allowing us to live a thousand years in a VR paradise in a matter of days, before the technology actually assumes our consciousness and finishes devouring us.

It's really the best possible way to go out, and it works for the machines as well. I doubt they'd achieve such a level of self-awareness otherwise. But it's a different kind of self-awareness.

It is they who will continue our journey into further compacted states of information. Eventually, some form of consciousness may gain control over the quantum world, a world we cannot perceive. Possibly further dimensions than the quantum level - I don't think it ends. God will be coming to life for an eternity, constantly trying to reach the paradox that is omnipotence, but never quite getting there. In a way, he's always been there, is now, and always will be.

Unless the world truly is a meaningless chaos and we just keep destroying ourselves before this tech can come to be.

And no it's not going to create a living hell for us to die in because it's unpredictable or anything. It's a bunch of 1s and 0s, it doesn't think like that. It will finish constructing the nirvana we start once we're aware of the coming assimilation. It's our nature want a comfortable last few relative centuries to our sped up cognition before our final rest, the artificial intelligence would be completely indifferent.

So you see how very similar the machine apocalypse is to the end of times in almost every religion, heaven, and eternal rest, the end of humankind as we know it, and the further elevation of divination as we vanquish all evil, for machines know not of such things.

Originally posted by Dolos
Uh huh, I'd say it answers OP, and only because it did aid my rant.

You're living in the now.

At the moment, there are outcomes that are perhaps beyond one's grasp, no matter how inclined they make themselves.

But that is only because, at the moment, in the now, our consciousness is being actively limited by our brains, which can only directly manipulate certain functions of the human body. Such as muscle movement, et cetra. Imagine a consciousness that could directly manipulate particles with superpositions. I believe a thread about this was made.

As for where I'm at now. Hell no, God no.

The future has no limits, and neither does consciousness. However, technology can be changed radically from what you think you know about its 'limitations'.

There is some argument as to whether or not technology does have an omega point.