Originally posted by Dolos
And I am not exactly clear on why you think I'm making words up. I know the definitions and meanings. I also don't understand why what I say confuses everyone.
Because you don't really know how to use the definitions and meanings, probably, but there are many considerations on comunication that go beyond strict definitions/meanings so I think your remark/justification is pretty pointless on and by itself.
Language is a convention, if you're confusing people that are obviously educated with your definitions, you're obviously doing wrong by your language's very function. Do not lean on definitions to gauge a conversation, definitions are actually a huge problem from a critical point of view because if you run by wrong definitions you'll never reconciliate your thought with those of others. Don't start your conversations being definitive, that's the ending of the discussions.
Originally posted by Oliver North
noJust answer this: How is the singularity going to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
Answer that question. That one.
Well the way I described the singularity, which I find to be more likely a scenario than not, there won't be an Israel or a Palestine....all nations will just fade away uner the transforming ecosystem, the transforming world, technology, cities, human beings!
Similarly as we become apathetic to our current human troubles, turmoils, and this mess of an economy - violent or cruel or competitive behaviors will be gone along with humanity as the global leaders. Mainly because of post-scarcity, post finite energy supplies, post money, post biological death, immortality, cities that can change and adapt, control of the weather, replenishing the environment.
It's bigger than you think.
Originally posted by Dolos
Well the way I described the singularity, which I find to be more likely a scenario than not, there won't be an Israel or a Palestine....all nations will just fade away uner the transforming ecosystem, the transforming world, technology, cities, human beings!
Israel and Palestine are violently independent. They will no "fade away". In fact what makes you think that any country will happily be devoured by an all powerful technocracy? Will people who disagree with this be killed off? Suppressed? Reeducated? Are any of these things you're comfortable building a utopia on?
Your vision of the future is literally: "Everyone will agree with me then suddenly Star Trek happens."
There are two types of people who say things like that. Shallow naive idealists being manipulated by shallow faux-intellectuals who want to sell books and shallow faux-intellectuals who want to sell books.
Originally posted by Dolos
Wait wait wait wait wait, let's step back a little bit.
No, let's stay with part where you dodged an extremely simple question and hoped I'd be too stupid to notice.
Originally posted by Dolos
Superiority entails an ability, or a capacity to achieve greater accomplishments.
Which is not the definition of superiority you gave a few posts ago when you defined superiority for me. We can all go back and read it. Honestly, its like talking to Shakya or dadude.
Originally posted by Dolos
Well the way I described the singularity, which I find to be more likely a scenario than not, there won't be an Israel or a Palestine....all nations will just fade away uner the transforming ecosystem, the transforming world, technology, cities, human beings!
can you describe the process of "just fading away" in general, and then I want to throw some countries at you and tell me more specifically how it would happen.
Originally posted by Oliver North
can you describe the process of "just fading away" in general, and then I want to throw some countries at you and tell me more specifically how it would happen.
Well lets say we start building cities the Venus Project, replace planes and cars and our main energy source with Vac Subs, automatic roadways and solar power/nano-solar panels, these miraculous cities will cut our dependence on natural gases. Let's say these cities operate outside of the capitalist nations that comprise the global economy, built first in the ocean. They start creating super nano-processing computers that run their cities, Ray tech, this singularity happens in these technocratic cities.
Everyone just moves there, until the other countries die out like the Soviet Union.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No, let's stay with part where you dodged an extremely simple question and hoped I'd be too stupid to notice.Which is not the definition of superiority you gave a few posts ago when you defined superiority for me. We can all go back and read it. Honestly, its like talking to Shakya or dadude.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Israel and Palestine are violently independent. They will no "fade away". In fact what makes you think that any country will happily be devoured by an all powerful technocracy? Will people who disagree with this be killed off? Suppressed? Reeducated? Are any of these things you're comfortable building a utopia on?Your vision of the future is literally: "Everyone will agree with me then suddenly Star Trek happens."
Well I mean, if they don't want a paradise, they can still try to run their own country. However, since people want to be happy, they might be running a village by the end.
If other nations, or maybe even America, would pull a Hitler and prevent immigration to Technocratic cities, then the citizens would have to revolt against their oppressors.
That's the way it's always been. The super AI, again, would be running things in the Utopia, basically apathetic unless provoked to take action, by violent actions of foreign powers trying to oppress their peoples from immigrating...either by attacking said technocracies, or, you know what it was like when we seceded from Great Britain.
Dolos's prophecies remind me of the worst part of the otherwise great story cycle The Martian Chronicles--where the entire population of Mars
Spoiler:.
leaves for Earth because a nuclear war has begun on Earth and they want to be there to help their families, never mind that it's explicitly stated earlier on that a lot of them came to Mars because they had no family to speak of or didn't care for them, or had come to Mars for the express purpose of AVOIDING the nuclear war
I know that he's talking about a pull factor and not a push factor, but it's similarly unrealistic in the sense that it presumes that people have very simple motives and are easily swayed en masse for singular reasons.
Originally posted by DolosThat's the way it's always been.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I know that he's talking about a pull factor and not a push factor, but it's similarly unrealistic in the sense that it presumes that people have very simple motives and are easily swayed en masse for singular reasons.
You mean like food and shelter?
Oliver North has already described the state of families in third world countries, and how they can't be provided for.
A lot more are able to immigrate to America than you would think.....
This is very different, this is a free-energy, post-scarcity, self-sustaining, self relying-nation with far more opportunity than America at this point in time.
Originally posted by Dolos
How I used it?It means to demean what I was saying.
"To cause to forsake allegiance."
More along that definition.
Verb
debauch (third-person singular simple present debauches, present participle debauching, simple past and past participle debauched)
(transitive) to morally corrupt (someone); to seduce
(transitive) to debase (something); to lower the value of (something)
The second definition is sort of close to what I think you meant, but still seems at such a cant that I have to refer back to Sym's private dictionary point, and the definition you quote above is so ridiculously out of left field that I have to question if you're not using translation software to type in English.
Originally posted by Dolos
You mean like food and shelter?Oliver North has already described the state of families in third world countries, and how they can't be provided for.
A lot more are able to immigrate to America than you would think.....
This is very different, this is a free-energy, post-scarcity, self-sustaining, self relying-nation with far more opportunity than America at this point in time.
This is of course irrelevant, seeing as you've yet to substantiate that the singularity will happen, or even if it does whether it will actually do what you claim it will do.
Originally posted by Dolos
[B]Well lets say we start building cities the Venus Project, replace planes and cars and our main energy source with Vac Subs, automatic roadways and solar power/nano-solar panels, these miraculous cities will cut our dependence on natural gases. Let's say these cities operate outside of the capitalist nations that comprise the global economy, built first in the ocean. They start creating super nano-processing computers that run their cities, Ray tech, this singularity happens in these technocratic cities.Everyone just moves there, until the other countries die out like the Soviet Union.
Well I mean, if they don't want a paradise, they can still try to run their own country. However, since people want to be happy, they might be running a village by the end.If other nations, or maybe even America, would pull a Hitler and prevent immigration to Technocratic cities, then the citizens would have to revolt against their oppressors.
That's the way it's always been. The super AI, again, would be running things in the Utopia, basically apathetic unless provoked to take action, by violent actions of foreign powers trying to oppress their peoples from immigrating...either by attacking said technocracies, or, you know what it was like when we seceded from Great Britain.
so a basic outline could be that independent, high tech city-states floating in the sea would bring a volition endowed super AI into existence, merge with it, create utopia and then rescue the rest of humanity from its outdated social structures by attracting immigrants and or overthrowing their reactionary governments.
again, for the sake of this argument I'll asume this is all doable as far as physics are concerned.
who would build these cities in the middle of the ocean? with what money, materials and labor? at what environmental cost?
before the singularity, what do the city-states funders and heads want? how do they behave politically? What will their domestic and foreign policies be like ? how will they interact with the community of nations?
are all immigrants going to be allowed in? how is the infrastructure going to cope with this? how will they select the ones chosen to live in them?
after the singularity, what will the AI want? how do you know this?
why would it be simpathetic, even tangentially, to human interests within and beyond the city-states? how do you know this?
why wouldnt it be hostile? how do you know?
if it's simply indifferent to us, why would it accept us into it? how do you know?
if it can gain something it wants from merging with us, why would it welcome foreign volitions into it instead of going borg? how do you know?
Originally posted by DolosI have a feeling that no one takes you seriously and you're really pissed off about it.
I'm done with the technocrat banter phase of my account's MvC life. I've provided a good deal of links, and have thrown a good deal of authors out there.Do what I plan on doing, get educated. Research it.