Darth Revan and Darth Nihilus and Darth Vader Vs.Yoda,Obi Wan,and Luke Skywalker NJO

Originally posted by Eminence
I'm not. I'm pointing out gaps in logic.

The situations aren't even remotely comparable, TJ. Anakin and Obi-Wan were intentionally deceiving Dooku for about ten seconds; this deception is not only stated outright in the novelization, but corroborated by one of the visual guides. You're suggesting runs completely against both established canon and logic.

He expected them to be incapable of fighting him competently because of how they trained. His misreading of the situation cost him his life.

Visas expected Nihlius to be incredibly strong; she had to have associated his action with power (killing on such a scale is unfathomable) and so built an impression of him which clearly borders on worship. (All the "my master is death" and "you are not strong enough to face him" and whatnot when she first shows up is sickening.)

In both cases the viewpoint of the observer directly affects the actions they take.

You're making her out to be an idiot whose own observation is entirely wrong just so that you can have a semblance of something to work off of in suggesting that Nihilus' attack is notably flawed. Hence, grasping at straws.

Claiming that she has a flawless understanding of N is naive at best. It seems very likely that her comments on him should be noted, at least, to have relevant circumstances.

You have six hours to apologize.

Originally posted by Eminence
You have six hours to apologize.

I'm sorry, I couldn't make out the words. You're too busy choking on Nihilus's world destroying penis.

Prove it.

**** it.

Riding my Nuts
Well, this isn't your best work. At all.

RN
Aren't they?

RN
Skywalker and Kenobi tricked Dooku because of what he expected to see:

"He supposed that in their own milieu, they might actually prove reasonably effective; it was clear that their style had been developed by fighting as a team against large numbers of opponents. They were not prepared to fight together against a single Force-user, certainly not one of Dooku's power; he, on the other hand, had always fought alone. It was laughably easy to keep the Jedi tripping and stumbling and getting in each other's way."

He expected them to be incapable of fighting him competently because of how they trained. His misreading of the situation cost him his life.

RN
Visas expected Nihlius to be incredibly strong; she had to have associated his action with power (killing on such a scale is unfathomable) and so built an impression of him which clearly borders on worship.

RN
(All the "my master is death" and "you are not strong enough to face him" and whatnot when she first shows up is sickening.)

An already hungry and apparently impulsive Nihilus had to cripple himself for the Exile and her companions to be able to defeat him. Visas' remarks are in line.

RN
In both cases the viewpoint of the observer directly affects the actions they take.

RN
Yeah, it isn't possible that a girl who recently saw her entire planet destroyed by one man and was subsequently abducted by that man could possibly have a skewed vision of his stature.

Which is it?

RN
Claiming that she has a flawless understanding of N is naive at best.

RN
It seems very likely that her comments on him should be noted, at least, to have relevant circumstances.

I expect a concession and apology by morning. That was awful.

bring Maul into the fight and sith would win if not jedi would

Eminence, somewhere along the way you lost the fact that I wasn't actually trying to prove Visas too powerful for Nihilius's attack.

I was merely highlighting that there isn't enough known about the attack to guarantee it would work in a situation like this thread presents.

I don't like unknowns in threads, and this one has TWO. That was all i was trying to point out.

[quote] RN
Yeah, it isn't possible that a girl who recently saw her entire planet destroyed by one man and was subsequently abducted by that man could possibly have a skewed vision of his stature.

I have to ask at this point what you're suggesting to be the real summary of events. I don't know that you're following TJ's line of thought and going with the idea that she's [greater than?] a Zannah-class Force-sensitive and therefore has some random ability to defend against an attack that massacred a hundred Jedi and the rest of Katarr's population, but I don't see what other option you'd be clinging to. If you're trying to play Devil's advocate you're not doing a good job, if you're arguing for the sake of arguing you're being a moron. [/quote]
Non-Sequitur much? I think it is clear that, as stated, the question of why is irrelevant to me. Nowhere do I comment on it. So your paragraph was a big pile of unsolicited and unnecessary fail.

This is the relevant line:

i think arguing character fallibility has much merit, here or anywhere.

You then go on to strawman the hell out of his argument with this:

You're making her out to be an idiot whose own observation is entirely wrong just so that you can have a semblance of something to work off of in suggesting that Nihilus' attack is notably flawed.

The only important thing is that She be acknowledged as a biased source. Why she was spared and her power level and what have you is irrelevant. No one cares about Visas as a character. What we I care about is how useful her testimony is for evaluating N. My conclusion at this point: not particularly, especially before her epiphany in the meditation chamber.

So: screw you, go suck moar cock.

That was one of your finest moments, Red.

So, just how powerful is nihilus exactly? Is his ub3r l33t attack really instantaneous?

Personally, other than galen marek and jar jar binks, I consider nihilus to be one of the worst characters ever made for SW, no character development no nothing.

RN
Non-Sequitur much? I think it is clear that, as stated, the question of why is irrelevant to me. Nowhere do I comment on it. So your paragraph was a big pile of unsolicited and unnecessary fail.

RN
This is the relevant line:[quote]TJ
i think arguing character fallibility has much merit, here or anywhere.

You then go on to strawman the hell out of his argument with this:

Eminence
You're making her out to be an idiot whose own observation is entirely wrong just so that you can have a semblance of something to work off of in suggesting that Nihilus' attack is notably flawed.

Read.

Incanus
Nihilus just uses insta-kill [... stuff, etc.]

TJ
the "insta" part is the problem most of us have a problem with. Ritual? blockable? Were any of those Jedi anywhere close to the combatants in this fight? Sadly, we just can't tell. Honestly, perhaps every Jedi on that planet sucked horribly. Perhaps TPM Kenobi would have survived the attack.

Come to think of it, Visas (sp?) survived it. She claimed it was because Nihilus wanted her to, but maybe it was because she was the only one strong enough in the force to survive. She was a kid, she wouldn't have known the difference.

Eminence
You're grasping at straws.

Eminence
There is no indication whatsoever that Visas is wrong about anything here.

RN
The only important thing is that She be acknowledged as a biased source.

[quote]RN
Claiming that she has a flawless understanding of N is naive at best.

Eminence
No one said anything of the sort.

RN
It seems very likely that her comments on him should be noted, at least, to have relevant circumstances.

Eminence
Which is a far cry from suggesting that they're completely wrong [as TJ did].

RN
Why she was spared and her power level and what have you is irrelevant.

RN
No one cares about Visas as a character.

TJ
She claimed [she survived] because Nihilus wanted her to, but maybe [she survived] because she was the only one strong enough in the force to survive. She was a kid, she wouldn't have known the difference.

TJ
Characters are fallible. With Visas we are talking about a child who wasn't with Nihilus when he did what he did.

RN
What we I care about is how useful her testimony is for evaluating N. My conclusion at this point: not particularly, especially before her epiphany in the meditation chamber.

RN
So: screw you, go suck moar cock.

[Sorry].

Damn eminence we need to hook up.

Hardcore quoting it seems like a long post to make a simple point but still hardcore

Question: When she said Nihilus sparred her, wasn't she talking about after Nihilus went down to the planet and found her alive?

She survived his attack. He went down and seen her alive, then instead of killing her, he sparred her. No?

Nah, its too convenient that he appeared in the exact spot where the one person to survive his attack was imo.

And yet not necessarily untrue. When confronted by the Exile, Visas, and Mandalore, Nihilus turns around, waves his hand, and freezes them all in place. For all reasonable intents and purposes, they are entirely helpless; he could have killed each and every one of them right then and there. Consider that immediately after this, Nihilus decides to try and "feed" on the Exile. He fails. He drops to his knees. He is killed in combat.

An already hungry and apparently impulsive Nihilus had to cripple himself for the Exile and her companions to be able to defeat him. Visas' remarks are in line.

Actually, even after this he's noted to be too powerful to defeat, cuing Visas to do her martyr thing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, even after this he's noted to be too powerful to defeat, cuing Visas to do her martyr thing.

I don't think that this option has been established as canon yet.

Well, yeah, your right, she can either do that or simply concentrate on weakening him. I was just trying to show that even after being significantly weakened he needs to be further weakened to be capable of defeating.

And to answer Wolvies post, he's easily on Galen Marek or Sidious' level in the TK department, as evidenced by his trick with the Leviathan (as well as easily owning Visas and The Exile to a lesser extent) and his drain attack thing is also highly impressive, given its massively destructive powa! IMO I'd also put him on a high tier in 'saber combat, as evidenced by Kas'im assurtion that Force power> skill in fights.

And I don't think he's as bad as all that, development-wise. He's just as developed as Maul.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I don't think he's as bad as all that, development-wise. He's just as developed as Maul.

Maul has been featured in multiple comics,books ( Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter), video game, source books and a movie.

Nihilus has been in 2 comics (one of which gives him a very minor role,) less source books then Maul (and they dont give much info on him) and a video game.

There 2 aren't comparable.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Maul has been featured in multiple comics,books ( [B]Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter), video game, source books and a movie.

Nihilus has been in 2 comics (one of which gives him a very minor role,) less source books then Maul (and they dont give much info on him) and a video game.

There 2 aren't comparable. [/B]