Originally posted by Darth Vicious
When I go to a restaurant I know what Im ordering for the most part. If I order something and I dont like it how they cooked it, I either dont go to that restaurant or dont order that particular food.
and if you don't like it at the time, you can send it back to the kitchen. so yeah, as you said, you have options...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Darth, it doesn't matter if trades aren't worth "much".There's material inside it that someone worked hard to create. If you don't wanna pay, you don't deserve to own it. They deserve every penny for their work.
Comics used to cost around 60p each at Forbidden Planet back in the day. Now we're talking £2-3 per comic.
I wonder what's jacking up the price. Oh, that'll be downloaders. Leeching music wasn't enough, not it's comics too.
I did say "...and/OR buy them legit.". Read properly. This means that the words "and" and "or" are both applicable. So let's use "or":
"I go to the store OR buy them legit.". Clearly meaning that you can get them legit without getting them from a store.
If you're gonna pursue this vendetta against me, at least make it credible by...ya know...not being wrong.
Also, if you copy my initials, it means I own the rights to your name and can address you however I wish. So, you'll be known as Crabhammer from now forth.
How?
If you don't pay for your comics, you lack respect and I don't consider you a true fan. A true fan knows that being a fan is as much about giving back to the people who give to YOU, not just taking.
-AC
In response to your last comment, Will Rules was clearly kidding.
The times I've downloaded comics are: Miracleman, Micronauts, and to get the issues of Suicide Squad that have never been reprinted.
Do I feel guilty? A little bit. But not really. These are comics that are being kept out of print by ridiculousness, and I've actually tried to pay for them, and couldn't.
I agree completely with your point. However, it's utterly fallacious to claim that the reason comics aren't sixty cents anymore is downloaders. Comic prices increased in 1993, for instance- clearly long before downloading them was an issue.
The reason albums cost so much is not because of downloading, but because of the current state of the record industry; especially considering the fact that the artist makes MAYBE fifty cents off every album sold. As wealthy as some pop artist is getting off CD sales, Sony or someone else is getting much, much wealthier.
Anyways, that's outside of the purview of this thread. Generally, what I don't buy individually when it comes out (usually about five a week), I just read in the store. I'm pretty friendly with the guy at my shop, and it's not really an issue for him, because I'm a regular customer who drops a decent, if not ridiculous amount of money each week.
Originally posted by tjcoady
In response to your last comment, Will Rules was clearly kidding.The times I've downloaded comics are: Miracleman, Micronauts, and to get the issues of Suicide Squad that have never been reprinted.
I agree with that, I would download things that you can't get access to without paying some guy alot more then its worth.
But for modern ones we need to support thes writers and artist that make good products
Originally posted by tjcoady
In response to your last comment, Will Rules was clearly kidding.The times I've downloaded comics are: Miracleman, Micronauts, and to get the issues of Suicide Squad that have never been reprinted.
Do I feel guilty? A little bit. But not really. These are comics that are being kept out of print by ridiculousness, and I've actually tried to pay for them, and couldn't.
I agree completely with your point. However, it's utterly fallacious to claim that the reason comics aren't sixty cents anymore is downloaders. Comic prices increased in 1993, for instance- clearly long before downloading them was an issue.
The reason albums cost so much is not because of downloading, but because of the current state of the record industry; especially considering the fact that the artist makes MAYBE fifty cents off every album sold. As wealthy as some pop artist is getting off CD sales, Sony or someone else is getting much, much wealthier.
Anyways, that's outside of the purview of this thread. Generally, what I don't buy individually when it comes out (usually about five a week), I just read in the store. I'm pretty friendly with the guy at my shop, and it's not really an issue for him, because I'm a regular customer who drops a decent, if not ridiculous amount of money each week.
Completely agreed and yes I was joking around, clearly humour is lost on some people 🙂
I can't justify downloading comic (even though I have occasionally downloaded in the past) but I understand why people do it.
Many people, especially fans like to perceive a relationship with the industry they are constantly buying into. They see it as almost an ongoing relationship, where they support the authors and their work. But at the end of the day, a business is a business. We are paying customers and if the general consensus amongst fans is that a comic is bad, blame is inevitably going to be placed on the author/artist/publisher. If Marvel or DC or whatever company prints a bad comic, then fans aren't voting with their dollars for that comic if they buy it because (unless you're fortunate enough to read it before purchase) you can't tell whether it's worth "voting" for or not. Combine that problem with the sinking quality of some titles matched with the rising of prices (due to the general state of the economy worldwide) and you can easily see why people do it.
Not saying it's right, but it's understandable. The comics industry isn't doing itself any favours at the moment and it's not just the fault of the fans who download, even though there is an obvious issue there in terms of business.
That's a nothing argument, though.
"You can see why people do it.". I can't, I can't see why people download comics by authors or companies they know they dislike, just to say "See? Shit. Glad I didn't buy it.".
I don't sit here downloading stuff by Chris Claremont just to say I dislike it.
Now, back to my lunch.
-AC
I am 17,with no job.I have never downloaded a comic,ever,and my collection is still massive.
So if you have ever downloaded a comic,just note,you are little more than a black hole, sucking away nutrients that could be used to sustain us real fans,and valuable members of society. You festering piles of dog shit. 😐
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's a nothing argument, though."You can see why people do it.". I can't, I can't see why people download comics by authors or companies they know they dislike, just to say "See? Shit. Glad I didn't buy it.".
I don't sit here downloading stuff by Chris Claremont just to say I dislike it.
Now, back to my lunch.
-AC
No, your argument doesn't make sense. How do they know they won't like it until they read it? By author? I have hated Jeph Loeb's recent stuff but he has written some brilliant comics as well. Character? Title? Artist? Same rule applies.
I don't know anyone who buys or downloads a title so they can go "See I'd knew it'd be crap!" They buy it to read it and then they discover if they like it or not.
Like I've already said, I'm not justifying it but some people download a comic to see if it's worth picking up or not. "Fans vote with their dollars" is a stupid statement put out by the major publishers.
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I am 17,with no job.I have never downloaded a comic,ever,and my collection is still massive.So if you have ever downloaded a comic,just note,you are little more than a black hole, sucking away nutrients that could be used to sustain us real fans,and valuable members of society. You festering piles of dog shit. 😐
then seriously, how do you afford them?
also, lulz at this "real fans" bs.
Originally posted by willRules
Completely agreed and yes I was joking around, clearly humour is lost on some people 🙂I can't justify downloading comic (even though I have occasionally downloaded in the past) but I understand why people do it.
Many people, especially fans like to perceive a relationship with the industry they are constantly buying into. They see it as almost an ongoing relationship, where they support the authors and their work. But at the end of the day, a business is a business. We are paying customers and if the general consensus amongst fans is that a comic is bad, blame is inevitably going to be placed on the author/artist/publisher. If Marvel or DC or whatever company prints a bad comic, then fans aren't voting with their dollars for that comic if they buy it because (unless you're fortunate enough to read it before purchase) you can't tell whether it's worth "voting" for or not. Combine that problem with the sinking quality of some titles matched with the rising of prices (due to the general state of the economy worldwide) and you can easily see why people do it.
Not saying it's right, but it's understandable. The comics industry isn't doing itself any favours at the moment and it's not just the fault of the fans who download, even though there is an obvious issue there in terms of business.
Not a good argument. This happens occasionally, but it's very easy as a discerning reader to avoid series, authors, companies, etc. that you dislike and gravitate toward those that you do enjoy. Exceptions will occur, but acting like a significant amount of purchases end up being disappointments is a gross mischaracterization. If it continues on a regular basis, the buyer is just dumb. After a while, buying bad comics is the buyer's fault, not the company's, since like you said it's a business. Sometimes "bad" sells.
Originally posted by willRules
No, your argument doesn't make sense. How do [B]they know they won't like it until they read it? By author? I have hated Jeph Loeb's recent stuff but he has written some brilliant comics as well. Character? Title? Artist? Same rule applies.I don't know anyone who buys or downloads a title so they can go "See I'd knew it'd be crap!" They buy it to read it and then they discover if they like it or not.
Like I've already said, I'm not justifying it but some people download a comic to see if it's worth picking up or not. "Fans vote with their dollars" is a stupid statement put out by the major publishers. [/B]
If I needed to, I could name 5 authors, maybe 3-4 series, and a couple indie companies that I don't touch. As a rule. And the same with stuff that I would buy without hesitation. I'm nearly always satisfied, or at least don't feel swindled. Tell me, how is that not voting with my dollars?
Originally posted by Digi
Not a good argument. This happens occasionally, but it's very easy as a discerning reader to avoid series, authors, companies, etc. that you dislike and gravitate toward those that you do enjoy. Exceptions will occur, but acting like a significant amount of purchases end up being disappointments is a gross mischaracterization. If it continues on a regular basis, the buyer is just dumb. After a while, buying bad comics is the buyer's fault, not the company's, since like you said it's a business. Sometimes "bad" sells.If I needed to, I could name 5 authors, maybe 3-4 series, and a couple indie companies that I don't touch. As a rule. And the same with stuff that I would buy without hesitation. I'm nearly always satisfied, or at least don't feel swindled. Tell me, how is that not voting with my dollars?
Obviously a fan shouldn't be continually buying a book they don't like but they have to obtain at least one issue in order to determine whether the book is for them or not. Chances are that's gonna be a first issue, which is one of many reasons why issue no 1s sell so well and why some titles are constantly revamped or retitled. If Marvel bring out a first issue of a new title and I can't tell whether I like it or not, I may vote with my dollars by buying the issue. This is clearly independent of my personal taste. I could love or hate the issue.
It goes without saying that a sustained purchase would be ridiculous if it's not to someones taste. Nonetheless first issues usually sell well before the gradual dip in prices, when people often leave and for a new title starting out, especially for creator owned work, every sale means something.
I think you're right. Sometimes bad does sell. This is certainly not what I had in mind when I voted using my own money. I can understand why people consider downloading. 🙁
This is why I think DC are doing very well for releasing previews or backup features to give people a flavour of a title. I suppose at least Marvel have a recap page. However the industry needs to develop or improve on their methods of selling a title rather than just hyping it. This is why review sites like ign are so important for understanding the tone of a title. ✅
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I am 17,with no job.I have never downloaded a comic,ever,and my collection is still massive.So if you have ever downloaded a comic,just note,you are little more than a black hole, sucking away nutrients that could be used to sustain us real fans,and valuable members of society. You festering piles of dog shit. 😐
I started my collection around 16. Everything was fine and dandy since I had no bills to pay. I got by the allowance I was given which Im guessing is ur case (or rich mommy and daddy). Lets see how ur tune change when u grow up, have kids, a house, cars but more importantly, bills!
I think someone that has no job really has no input as to those that have to choose between bills to pay and a hobby. While there are people that can afford all the bills/kids. that doesnt apply to everyone.
Originally posted by -Pr-
then seriously, how do you afford them?also, lulz at this "real fans" bs.
Answer the man if u dont mind.
Originally posted by willRules[/b]
No, your argument doesn't make sense. How do [B]they know they won't like it until they read it? By author? I have hated Jeph Loeb's recent stuff but he has written some brilliant comics as well. Character? Title? Artist? Same rule applies.
1) I'm referring to people, like Vicious, who literally cannot stand certain authors or whatever. He clearly doesn't like Liefield, at all, so don't go downloading Liefield's stuff.
2) Then you take a risk. When did this "I need to know exactly what anything is, and own it, before I pay for it." shit come from?
You're not "previewing" it, you're not sampling a couple pages or an excerpt from Marvel.Com, you're illegally downloading a comic.
Originally posted by willRules
I don't know anyone who buys or downloads a title so they can go "See I'd knew it'd be crap!" They buy it to read it and then they discover if they like it or not.
That's how it should be. You pay for something to decide if you like it or not, it's not a good argument to say "I might not like this, so I should be able to own it before owning it, in case I dislike it.".
I'll explain why in my reply to Vicious.
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I started my collection around 16. Everything was fine and dandy since I had no bills to pay. I got by the allowance I was given which Im guessing is ur case (or rich mommy and daddy). Lets see how ur tune change when u grow up, have kids, a house, cars but more importantly, bills!I think someone that has no job really has no input as to those that have to choose between bills to pay and a hobby. While there are people that can afford all the bills/kids. that doesnt apply to everyone.
Here's the fact; if you wanna whine about economy then why the **** are you buying comics in the first place? If money is SO tight that you are whining about buying a shit comic, maybe spend the money on shit you NEED rather than stuff you want in ANY case.
If you have bills to pay, kids a house and cars...and the upkeep of all those is costly, why pay for any comics? You can't afford them so don't buy them.
"That's why I download".
I'm sorry, but "I can't afford it." isn't a good reason to steal. Never has been, never will be. If you are literally going to die of hunger on the street because you have no job and can't get one due to the vicious cycle of homelessness, I'll turn a blind eye if I see you steal an apple.
If you want to steal a LUXURY hobby item simply because you can't afford to pay, then you've got no argument.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri1) I'm referring to people, like Vicious, who literally cannot stand certain authors or whatever. He clearly doesn't like Liefield, at all, so don't go downloading Liefield's stuff.
[/B]
Liefield is a great example. I hate his art. Even before opening the book I know Ill hate his art. Why? because he sux and to this day his art hasnt evolved. I wont give him a penny. Ill be more than happy to download it and see if I like the story. He could be out of the job tomorrow because of me. I'll sleep like a baby.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriHere's the fact; if you wanna whine about economy then why the **** are you buying comics in the first place? If money is SO tight that you are whining about buying a shit comic, maybe spend the money on shit you NEED rather than stuff you want in ANY case.
If you have bills to pay, kids a house and cars...and the upkeep of all those is costly, why pay for any comics? You can't afford them so don't buy them.
"That's why I download".
I'm sorry, but "I can't afford it." isn't a good reason to steal. Never has been, never will be. If you are literally going to die of hunger on the street because you have no job and can't get one due to the vicious cycle of homelessness, I'll turn a blind eye if I see you steal an apple.
If you want to steal a LUXURY hobby item simply because you can't afford to pay, then you've got no argument.
[/B]
Not sure where this whine shit came from but im not whinning. I got my priorities straight which are family, bills etc. IF I have money to spare and I want to buy a comic, I want the most for my dollar. Which is why Ill buy comic books that I feel are worth it (on ebay that is). Is buying from ebay wrong since the seller is bound to make more money than the store (sometimes)?. Im not the one whinning because I feel that by 7 people downloading (yes, look at the poll, Im not the only one) u feel they are taking from the industry. Unless im missing something, artists/writers get paid by the page/book, not by comission (sorry if they are). If a particular comic doesnt sell well the book gets canceled and they get moved to something else. Unless they are crappy at their craft and in which case, who needs them? Dont knock it because ur moral compass dont allow u to do it. Get off ur freaking high horse. Everybody downloads these days whether its audio, video, software, books. Just because its comic books doesnt make it any more heinous.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri1) I'm referring to people, like Vicious, who literally cannot stand certain authors or whatever. He clearly doesn't like Liefield, at all, so don't go downloading Liefield's stuff.
2) Then you take a risk. When did this "I need to know exactly what anything is, and own it, before I pay for it." shit come from?
You're not "previewing" it, you're not sampling a couple pages or an excerpt from Marvel.Com, you're illegally downloading a comic.
That's how it should be. You pay for something to decide if you like it or not, it's not a good argument to say "I might not like this, so I should be able to own it before owning it, in case I dislike it.".
I'll explain why in my reply to Vicious.
Here's the fact; if you wanna whine about economy then why the **** are you buying comics in the first place? If money is SO tight that you are whining about buying a shit comic, maybe spend the money on shit you NEED rather than stuff you want in ANY case.
If you have bills to pay, kids a house and cars...and the upkeep of all those is costly, why pay for any comics? You can't afford them so don't buy them.
"That's why I download".
I'm sorry, but "I can't afford it." isn't a good reason to steal. Never has been, never will be. If you are literally going to die of hunger on the street because you have no job and can't get one due to the vicious cycle of homelessness, I'll turn a blind eye if I see you steal an apple.
If you want to steal a LUXURY hobby item simply because you can't afford to pay, then you've got no argument.
-AC [/B]
Is there any real difference between downloading a comic and spending time in your local Chapters reading a comic in one of their comfy sofa-chairs? What about borrowing trades from your library?
Originally posted by theICONiac
Is there any real difference between downloading a comic and spending time in your local Chapters reading a comic in one of their comfy sofa-chairs? What about borrowing trades from your library?
THANK YOU icon.
Jesus H Christ! Anyone can walk into ANY Barnes and Noble or Borders and pick up the comic books from the comic bin read the bloody thing and just leave. There is no crime...just like you can listen to music on a radio for free.
I swear...all these illegal technical internet mumbo jumbo is quite silly at times. Makes you wonder who really lives in fear?
As for the topic.
I obtain my comics from the following:
Comic book shops, Subscriptions (which is rare nowadays), Conventions, or back in my Jr. High days...borrow them or trade them with other comic book nerds.