Originally posted by WhoopeeDee
THANK YOU icon.Jesus H Christ! Anyone can walk into ANY Barnes and Noble or Borders and pick up the comic books from the comic bin read the bloody thing and just leave. There is no crime...just like you can listen to music on a radio for free.
I swear...all these illegal technical internet mumbo jumbo is quite silly at times. Makes you wonder who really lives in fear?
As for the topic.
I obtain my comics from the following:
Comic book shops, Subscriptions (which is rare nowadays), Conventions, or back in my Jr. High days...borrow them or trade the with other comic book nerds.
Yeah, there's the difference though. You say there's no difference but you clearly outline one as not being a crime, while the other clearly is. That's a pretty big difference.
Just because it's not illegal to do the browsing thing, doesn't mean it's any less cheap and shifty. My point is that not paying for shit you want is retarded. Libraries are consentual, the manufacturers agree to have them there and usually for a set fee.
It's not about living in fear. The police have proven that illegal downloading is so hard to trace that you may as well not live in fear. My issue is with, ya know, not doing it for personal reasons because I like paying for my comics and paying the people who created them.
Congrats on keeping up your Marciano-esque streak for being able to miss a points with more raw efficiency than Usain Bolt.
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Liefield is a great example. I hate his art. Even before opening the book I know Ill hate his art. Why? because he sux and to this day his art hasnt evolved. I wont give him a penny. Ill be more than happy to download it and see if I like the story. He could be out of the job tomorrow because of me. I'll sleep like a baby.
Oh, so many ways for me to tear this point to shreds.
1) You seem to cockily admit your thievery as if it's cool. This doesn't bolster your point, it re-enforces mine.
2) You know you won't like him so you shouldn't be owning his stuff without paying.
3) You say you download it because you might like the story, BUT, you've already decided you won't give him a penny and you would happily contribute to him being out of a job.
So, summation; like Liefield's stories or not, you are enthusiastically trying to contribute to a lack of payment for the man's work. It has nothing to do with being able to afford it or a recession, and everything to do with you being rather disgusting, bitter and scummy. To wish someone out of a job, who many people like, because YOU don't? That's just beyond mental retardation. That's conscious bastardry.
I hope you genuinely get fired soon, to balance the karma.
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Not sure where this whine shit came from but im not whinning. I got my priorities straight which are family, bills etc. IF I have money to spare and I want to buy a comic, I want the most for my dollar. Which is why Ill buy comic books that I feel are worth it (on ebay that is). Is buying from ebay wrong since the seller is bound to make more money than the store (sometimes)?. Im not the one whinning because I feel that by 7 people downloading (yes, look at the poll, Im not the only one) u feel they are taking from the industry. Unless im missing something, artists/writers get paid by the page/book, not by comission (sorry if they are). If a particular comic doesnt sell well the book gets canceled and they get moved to something else. Unless they are crappy at their craft and in which case, who needs them? Dont knock it because ur moral compass dont allow u to do it. Get off ur freaking high horse. Everybody downloads these days whether its audio, video, software, books. Just because its comic books doesnt make it any more heinous.
First off, don't EVER use the "Everyone does it" card and expect for ME to take you seriously. Did your parents ever tell you the wise advice of; "If your friend jumps off a bridge, do you do it?" or not?
As for eBay, if it were illegal it wouldn't be thriving, would it?
"Copyrights allow people like painters, musicians, writers, and software developers to have some control over how their work is used or shared with others.
Trademarks allow people like clothing and product designers to protect their product's reputation. After all, their products have a good reputation because of all the money and effort these people invested in them.
Patents help people protect their new technological innovations. The person who comes up with the technology for the world's first time travel machine will certainly want to get some credit for it!".
eBay's policy is very simple:
Don't sell fakes, bootlegs or other such stuff.
Don't use pictures taken from a manufacturer or source, use your own etc.
There's a whole section dedicated to explaining how protecting intellectual property works on that site.
Besides, even on a simpler level if you look at a one for one trade; someone buys a comic from a store, eBay sells it. That's not him sharing the comic, it's him giving it up and another single person owning it.
Half the time new comics are sold for store price on there ANYWAY, and the people doing that kind of selling are established sellers like MyComicShop. People and groups who buy IN bulk from the source, like any store.
Now, back issues are different, as they go for a variant of price. However, Marvel and just about any other comic book manufacturer or writer knows this and accepts it. Besides, it has nothing to do with them as time passes.
They earned royalties when the comics were released. In time, as they stopped being pressed, more people still wanted to own them. So, since they were no longer in production, it went to trading/buying/selling. This is not illegal, this is just adaptation for something that literally is never gonna come out again.
Music is different because CDs RAAARELY go out of print. So there's no excuse, and comic companies are making sure to bolster their employees worth in the NOW because of this.
Let me explain; nobody knew, when the first Action Comics #1 hit the shelves for not even a dollar, that there would eventually be only 12 known copies left on the planet in any condition that would be worth anything. Nor that said worth would be at 500 grand and sometimes a million, nor that they'd see NO return on this.
Now, the comics we buy will NEVER be as valuable as those older ones.
1) They're printed in MUCH higher number, so more people will end up with a copy.
2) They do constant reprints, sometimes before the comics even sell out. You've got all kinds of variant covers now.
Comics will always be valued retrospectively, but due to the way they're made, it at least buffers the sell-on loss that writers and the companies suffer.
It's not comparable to illegal downloading because you dislike a writer or because you have some retarded "I can't afford it." excuse.
I can't afford a Porsche; you won't see me stealing one from the dealership.
Let's break it down; all you arrogant downloaders tell me something.
If you got taken to court, just tell me how confident you'd be that you'd get off with half the arguments you present on the internet?
We both know you'd be hearing the clanging of jailbars before the gavel even hit the wood.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri1) I'm referring to people, like Vicious, who literally cannot stand certain authors or whatever. He clearly doesn't like Liefield, at all, so don't go downloading Liefield's stuff.
2) Then you take a risk. When did this "I need to know exactly what anything is, and own it, before I pay for it." shit come from?
You're not "previewing" it, you're not sampling a couple pages or an excerpt from Marvel.Com, you're illegally downloading a comic.
That's how it should be. You pay for something to decide if you like it or not, it's not a good argument to say "I might not like this, so I should be able to own it before owning it, in case I dislike it.". [/B]
Take the risk? No. I'm a paying customer who wants to make sure I get my moneys worth. I think Marvel and DC needs to improve on their sampling, such as Marvel.com Digital comics. They have improved but there's still a long way to go. They cater to us, not the other way round. 🙄
I would go on, but I think Darth Vicious is handling his own points just fine.
Originally posted by thebeast
I'd rather DL everything I want to read than pay for any of it.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So, summation; like Liefield's stories or not, you are enthusiastically trying to contribute to a lack of payment for the man's work. It has nothing to do with being able to afford it or a recession, and everything to do with you being rather disgusting, bitter and scummy. To wish someone out of a job, who many people like, because YOU don't? That's just beyond mental retardation. That's conscious bastardry.-AC
Fail! Last comic I read from Liefield was Onslaught return. Liefield was just the ARTIST. The storyline was mainly Loebs. Most of the small amount of stuff I got from Liefield hes just the "artist" (if u call what he does art)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I hope you genuinely get fired soon, to balance the karma.
-AC
There are 2 things that I know for a fact.
1- Im so valuable for the company I work for that I wont be let go anytime soon. For some unexplained reason I could be let go bu thats like saying Superman will be a Marvel comic next month.
2- I'll be using the skills Ive gathered in that company to get some FREE comic books tomorrow afternoon.
I hope that Karma fellow pass by ur place and burn it to the ground. Wont lose any sleep if u and ur hard paid collection are in it while its burning.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
First off, don't EVER use the "Everyone does it" card and expect for ME to take you seriously. Did your parents ever tell you the wise advice of; "If your friend jumps off a bridge, do you do it?" or not?-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As for eBay, if it were illegal it wouldn't be thriving, would it?....
-AC
Didnt care for none of that.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you got taken to court, just tell me how confident you'd be that you'd get off with half the arguments you present on the internet?We both know you'd be hearing the clanging of jailbars before the gavel even hit the wood.
-AC
Please provide a link with that awesome news were a person got sent to jail for downloading comic books? Take ur time too.
At the most people get fined for DL music/video. Unless u own/run a bit tottent site(Pirate Bay) and live in China.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauriyawn
Yeah, there's the difference though. You say there's no difference but you clearly outline one as not being a crime, while the other clearly is. That's a pretty big difference.Just because it's not illegal to do the browsing thing, doesn't mean it's any less cheap and shifty. My point is that not paying for shit you want is retarded. Libraries are consentual, the manufacturers agree to have them there and usually for a set fee.
It's not about living in fear. The police have proven that illegal downloading is so hard to trace that you may as well not live in fear. My issue is with, ya know, not doing it for personal reasons because I like paying for my comics and paying the people who created them.
Congrats on keeping up your Marciano-esque streak for being able to miss a points with more raw efficiency than Usain Bolt.
Oh, so many ways for me to tear this point to shreds.
1) You seem to cockily admit your thievery as if it's cool. This doesn't bolster your point, it re-enforces mine.
2) You know you won't like him so you shouldn't be owning his stuff without paying.
3) You say you download it because you might like the story, BUT, you've already decided you won't give him a penny and you would happily contribute to him being out of a job.
So, summation; like Liefield's stories or not, you are enthusiastically trying to contribute to a lack of payment for the man's work. It has nothing to do with being able to afford it or a recession, and everything to do with you being rather disgusting, bitter and scummy. To wish someone out of a job, who many people like, because YOU don't? That's just beyond mental retardation. That's conscious bastardry.
I hope you genuinely get fired soon, to balance the karma.
[/b]
First off, don't EVER use the "Everyone does it" card and expect for ME to take you seriously. Did your parents ever tell you the wise advice of; "If your friend jumps off a bridge, do you do it?" or not?
As for eBay, if it were illegal it wouldn't be thriving, would it?
"Copyrights allow people like painters, musicians, writers, and software developers to have some control over how their work is used or shared with others.
Trademarks allow people like clothing and product designers to protect their product's reputation. After all, their products have a good reputation because of all the money and effort these people invested in them.
Patents help people protect their new technological innovations. The person who comes up with the technology for the world's first time travel machine will certainly want to get some credit for it!".
eBay's policy is very simple:
Don't sell fakes, bootlegs or other such stuff.
Don't use pictures taken from a manufacturer or source, use your own etc.
There's a whole section dedicated to explaining how protecting intellectual property works on that site.
Besides, even on a simpler level if you look at a one for one trade; someone buys a comic from a store, eBay sells it. That's not him sharing the comic, it's him giving it up and another single person owning it.
Half the time new comics are sold for store price on there ANYWAY, and the people doing that kind of selling are established sellers like MyComicShop. People and groups who buy IN bulk from the source, like any store.
Now, back issues are different, as they go for a variant of price. However, Marvel and just about any other comic book manufacturer or writer knows this and accepts it. Besides, it has nothing to do with them as time passes.
They earned royalties when the comics were released. In time, as they stopped being pressed, more people still wanted to own them. So, since they were no longer in production, it went to trading/buying/selling. This is not illegal, this is just adaptation for something that literally is never gonna come out again.
Music is different because CDs RAAARELY go out of print. So there's no excuse, and comic companies are making sure to bolster their employees worth in the NOW because of this.
Let me explain; nobody knew, when the first Action Comics #1 hit the shelves for not even a dollar, that there would eventually be only 12 known copies left on the planet in any condition that would be worth anything. Nor that said worth would be at 500 grand and sometimes a million, nor that they'd see NO return on this.
Now, the comics we buy will NEVER be as valuable as those older ones.
1) They're printed in MUCH higher number, so more people will end up with a copy.
2) They do constant reprints, sometimes before the comics even sell out. You've got all kinds of variant covers now.
Comics will always be valued retrospectively, but due to the way they're made, it at least buffers the sell-on loss that writers and the companies suffer.
It's not comparable to illegal downloading because you dislike a writer or because you have some retarded "I can't afford it." excuse.
I can't afford a Porsche; you won't see me stealing one from the dealership.
Let's break it down; all you arrogant downloaders tell me something.
If you got taken to court, just tell me how confident you'd be that you'd get off with half the arguments you present on the internet?
We both know you'd be hearing the clanging of jailbars before the gavel even hit the wood.
-AC [/B]
Originally posted by willRulesAre you going to find out what happens in BN. Will be hard to avoid it.
I Read comics over someones shoulder.I usually buy trades or hardcovers for most things these days, exceptions being Spidey, sometimes Batman and up until now, Cap.
Up until Cap Reborn, I bought single issues. However I think I'm gonna start getting the trades for Cap from now on.
I sometimes buy the single issues for a major event but I prefer the trades (I'm waiting for the Blackest Night trade which is killing me, after reading the first issue)
I have a few random things in single issues, some one shots, some Green Lantern. I own Millar's run of Ultimates in single issue, but I'm really tempted to buy the Omnibus on Amazon cos it looks gorgeous ✅
Anyway just because you download doesn't make you not a true fan, I'm a fan of that comic not the creator or whatever. I care about myself and my money not the industry, I'm not bothered that my money doesn't go to them, I don't give a shit if the price gets jacked up, I don't have to worry about it do I.
I only Download comics now..heres one reason of many......i spent my hard earned money on countdown...then into Death Of The New Gods.....then DC bends over for Morrison...i gave it a shot..after 4 issues of the crappiest writing ever..there was an interview released...it was Dido and Morrison laughing about how Countdown and DOTNG was osmething we cant understand.....and something to the effect that..why cant we just read a new story....well i spent 52 issues and another 8 on a story that was disregarded....and to gloat about it in an interview...well after i spent my money collecting the rest of final crisis and its tie ins(i thought maybe there was something to be redeemed thru this mess)...it was a absolute failure and a slap in the face to me as a reader/buyer of said comics...well i dont pay for any DC comics these days....i download them....and i dont care for an industry that insults me...i have a huge collection of comics that i can share with my kids and others..from a time when comics were good.
Originally posted by thebeast
Anyway just because you download doesn't make you not a true fan, I'm a fan of that comic not the creator or whatever. I care about myself and my money not the industry, I'm not bothered that my money doesn't go to them, I don't give a shit if the price gets jacked up, I don't have to worry about it do I.
But the thing is if you like the story and art thats being drawn thats currently happening in that comic series then friggan buy the actual comic and help get the money back to the writer, artist.
Originally posted by thebeast
Are you going to find out what happens in BN. Will be hard to avoid it.
I'm sure I'll find out beforehand. Even if I'm careful, my temptation will probably get the better of me 😂 But I bought the Sinestro corps war in single issues. It rocked, but upon reflection, I reckon I could have easily waited for the trades, which I think look so much nicer and sit so much better on my shelf. These days I gravitate towards the trades.
Originally posted by starlock
I only Download comics now..heres one reason of many......i spent my hard earned money on countdown...then into Death Of The New Gods.....then DC bends over for Morrison...i gave it a shot..after 4 issues of the crappiest writing ever..there was an interview released...it was Dido and Morrison laughing about how Countdown and DOTNG was osmething we cant understand.....and something to the effect that..why cant we just read a new story....well i spent 52 issues and another 8 on a story that was disregarded....and to gloat about it in an interview...well after i spent my money collecting the rest of final crisis and its tie ins(i thought maybe there was something to be redeemed thru this mess)...it was a absolute failure and a slap in the face to me as a reader/buyer of said comics...well i dont pay for any DC comics these days....i download them....and i dont care for an industry that insults me...i have a huge collection of comics that i can share with my kids and others..from a time when comics were good.
Exactly. You are a good example of my point earlier. You don't know what to expect until you purchase the issue. If someone said you were voting with your dollars to justify buying what you didn't enjoy, you'd be pretty upset. Now I think Countdown is a sustained purchase so really, you should have dropped out, you did vote with your dollars there. However FC was a major event. Chances are it altered some of your regular titles. DC expects you to pick it up. It's hyped, as an event, you bought it and you "voted with your dollars" for something you didn't really want to vote for upon hindsight.
Originally posted by Kazenji
But the thing is if you like the story and art thats being drawn thats currently happening in that comic series then friggan buy the actual comic and help get the money back to the writer, artist.
Agreed.
This is why the industry needs to put a better job into advertising it's smaller titles through previews. A good example was the first few pages of X-men: First Class. When it was first released, preview pages were everywhere, there was a real push for it. I think that does a better job to hook someone onto a title because it gives them a real sense of flavour for the title and doesn't give them as much incentive to download in order to see what the stories are like. I wish that had been done for Cornell's Cap Britain, the title might have lasted longer.
Plus the rising costs don't help any of this.
Originally posted by Kazenji
But the thing is if you like the story and art thats being drawn thats currently happening in that comic series then friggan buy the actual comic and help get the money back to the writer, artist.
No. I would rather me have the money then them. Why would I WANT to give my money away to them when I could easily get them for free.
I care about what benefits me not them. I don't really give a shit about the writer and artist.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriI did say "...and/OR buy them legit.". Read properly. This means that the words "and" and "or" are both applicable. So let's use "or":
"I go to the store OR buy them legit.". Clearly meaning that you can get them legit without getting them from a store.
If you're gonna pursue this vendetta against me, at least make it credible by...ya know...not being wrong.
I have no vendetta against you, nor do I really care anything about you. I was responding to a thread.
-BH
Originally posted by willRules
Obviously a fan shouldn't be continually buying a book they don't like but they have to obtain at least one issue in order to determine whether the book is for them or not. Chances are that's gonna be a first issue, which is one of many reasons why issue no 1s sell so well and why some titles are constantly revamped or retitled. If Marvel bring out a first issue of a new title and I can't tell whether I like it or not, I may vote with my dollars by buying the issue. This is clearly independent of my personal taste. I could love or hate the issue.It goes without saying that a sustained purchase would be ridiculous if it's not to someones taste. Nonetheless first issues usually sell well before the gradual dip in prices, when people often leave and for a new title starting out, especially for creator owned work, every sale means something.
I think you're right. Sometimes bad does sell. This is certainly not what I had in mind when I voted using my own money. I can understand why people consider downloading. 🙁
This is why I think DC are doing very well for releasing previews or backup features to give people a flavour of a title. I suppose at least Marvel have a recap page. However the industry needs to develop or improve on their methods of selling a title rather than just hyping it. This is why review sites like ign are so important for understanding the tone of a title. ✅
I still fail to see how you understand downloaders because of first-issue sales, which are a miniscule drop in the bucket compared to any comic enthusiasts collection. So what if you buy a bad issue now and then? Shrug and move on. Don't resort to illegal downloads, or sympathize with those who do.
And "bad selling" is because a lot of people happen to like what you or I might consider to be bad. It doesn't mean we should be downloading bad authors or series because we don't enjoy it.
But yes, review sites are great, as is just being a conscious consumer. Between those things, there's no reason to be angry at an industry, or indeed angry at anyone but yourself.
Originally posted by jalek moye
now that is where the problem is
👆
A thankful minority still, however. The comic industry is thriving atm.
And he's just a sock, so we can't really listen to what he says. By his tone, my guess is that he was just looking for shock value.
Originally posted by Digi
And he's just a sock, so we can't really listen to what he says. By his tone, my guess is that he was just looking for shock value.
Out of curiosity, how do you mods route out the socks? Consistently similiar tonal-quality from post to post? THe exact same IP address/ISP combo something?
Or is it some 'Top-Secret' thingie you can't say? 😉
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Really? Over an internet discussion? 😕People amaze me sometimes.
For every action....
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriI hope you genuinely get fired soon, to balance the karma.
-AC
There's a reaction.
Originally posted by Darth ViciousI hope that Karma fellow pass by ur place and burn it to the ground. Wont lose any sleep if u and ur hard paid collection are in it while its burning.
Originally posted by theICONiac
Out of curiosity, how do you mods route out the socks? Consistently similiar tonal-quality from post to post? THe exact same IP address/ISP combo something?Or is it some 'Top-Secret' thingie you can't say? 😉
Top Secret. You've just increased your chance to be banned by about 50% merely from asking about it.
🥷
...PM if you're interested. It's nothing secret or special, but I'd rather not spam the thread any more.