Colossus vs Elektra

Originally posted by Battlehammer
stated no mtach. Not that it slightly damage it or that it was slightly stronger, it stated clearly no match for adamatium claws of wolverine.

It stated it was no match to what extent? Clearly not a lot because the only reference to the affect it was having was that, it just created sparks.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No I said the art did not show much, but again that was how the artist draws things and was quite common back then, that damage was not shown much or well. Through out the entire run it was like that, ur pretty much taking artist depiction over writers statement which is wrong to do.

Uhuh. Even back then, damage was shown when done to a character. Even back then characters bleed, got injured and so on.

Taking the artist depiction over what statement by the writer? The only statement he made was that Adamantium was no match. He did not say to what extent. The only direct reference to the result of the organic steel and Adamantium meeting was that sparks flew. That's it. Rationalize it however you want, but that's simply the case.

At best you can say, that Wolverine can cut small slashes that do nothing significant based on that scene in my opinion.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
showing that he had damage colossus, and again ur ignoring the fact that how the artist depicted things back then and during that run. It not that thing did not get damage, it just art did not show it well or at all conistently through out the arc.

So basically your saying you don't agree with the art, because he showed that Wolverine did no significant damage to Colossus? Despite the fact that the writer never stated he did any significant damage and all he stated in regards to the effect of Wolverine slashing was that only sparks flew?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
writer>>>>artist depiction.

Artist depiction matters a lot actually.

The writer said that his organic steel was no match. No match to what extent? All he said about the effect was that sparks flew as the Adamantium raked him. If all he can do is make sparks fly and maybe leave a shallow slash, then that isn't going to do much.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
He raked his skinn, and again Logan was up in the air, no leverage and it was a slash. It was not a power type a attack. In WWH fight he slashed at hulk and failed at first, but then in his next attack was able to stabbed the hulk clean through several times.

So the art depiction counts when it matters ey?

How can you tell he had no leverage from that angle? Wolverine jumped at Colossus. Hell, it looks like his foot, was on Colossus, and his arm on Colossus, as he slashed him. How can you tell there was no power on that slash?

Green Scar's skin was harder to cut. Wolverine had to exert more effort to do less damage. He just had not adjusted.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
When did it state he remember nothing? Also why would no one tell him what happen? Why would no one tell him he can’t be harm by wolverines claws? Why would wolverine still clearly believe he can cut colossus?

Was he not mind controlled?

I have no clue. Ask the damn X-men. Maybe the simply did not bother. Maybe Wolverine believes that if he keeps on trying he'll succeed? Maybe he thinks he can cut anything? Wolverine isn't the type to back down.

How am I supposed to rationalize Wolverine's actions?

Wolverine was not in command of himself either was he? Can't remember

before I answer that long post, what elses was suposes to happen asside froma sparks? u do realize he made out of solid metal right, he has no blood ect.

Originally posted by jinzin

Just because Wolverine doesn't manage to decimate something in one attempt doesn't necessarily mean he can't cut it at all as displayed here:
1. http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9160/bouncenb1.jpg

^Hence why I said, that Wolverine may believe he can cut him if he keeps on trying. He might believe it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
before I answer that long post, what elses was suposes to happen asside froma sparks? u do realize he made out of solid metal right, he has no blood ect.

Hold on before I answer, was he always said to be made out of pure metal, tissue and all? Was it stated at a time to be only his skin?

Just checking to make sure as I don't remember and I cannot check myself.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^Hence why I said, that Wolverine may believe he can cut him if he keeps on trying. He might believe it.

Hold on before I answer, was he always said to be made out of pure metal, tissue and all? Was it stated at a time to be only his skin?

Just checking to make sure as I don't remember and I cannot check myself.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
nope it always been solid organic metal.

Oh okay thanks. I don't know why I thought differently. Ultimate Universe, always puts me off sometimes. Especially at night.

Also in regards to your question:

Sparks indicate that he only grazed or didn't do any damage to his organic steel. It indicates a lot of friction as he attempts to cut Colossus. I.e sparks don't fly when he cuts through steel does it? It would if he attempts to cut through Captain America's shield.

Hope you understood what I meant.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh okay thanks. I don't know why I thought differently. Ultimate Universe, always puts me off sometimes. Especially at night.

Also in regards to your question:

Sparks indicate that he only grazed or didn't do any damage to his organic steel. It indicates a lot of friction as he attempts to cut Colossus. I.e sparks don't fly when he cuts through steel does it? It would if he attempts to cut through Captain America's shield.

Hope you understood what I meant.

becuase sparks were indicated does not mean he dident cut colossus or easily went through.

also if he slashed capt shield sparks would not occure or should not because sparks imply one or more of the metals are being damage which could not be the cases in such an event between wolverines claws and capt shield

1. http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8058/abomxz4.jpg

he put adbomination down with slashes and yet we dont see the cuts. Just becuase we dont see it does not mean they dont occure, it all do to how artist depict events, some simply dont show things like that dispite it happening.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
not true actaully sparks do fly when he cuts through metal depends on the writer and artist.

becuase sparks were indicated does not mean he dident cut colossus or easily went through.

1. http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8058/abomxz4.jpg

he put adbomination down with slashes and yet we dont see the cuts. Just becuase we dont see it does not mean they dont occure, it all do to how artist depict events, some simply dont show things like that dispite it happening.

So it's variable? That's understandable.

It's because that the writer emphasizes on the sparks flying directly and doesn't reference anything else in regards to what happens when the Adamantium meet his organic steel, that it matters so much and like you said, writer intentions are the most important thing.

In regards to Abomination, there actually seems to be slashes around his body. Slashes of 3 if I look closely. Just saying.

srug

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So it's variable? That's understandable.

It's because that the writer emphasizes on the sparks flying directly and doesn't reference anything else in regards to what happens when the Adamantium meet his organic steel, that it matters so much and like you said, writer intentions are the most important thing.

In regards to Abomination, there actually seems to be slashes around his body. Slashes of 3 if I look closely. Just saying.

srug

the writer stated it was no match for wolverine claws implying wolverine can cut through them and implying colossus armor is not a match for them. the sparks show the armor was damaged, there really nothing elses the writer coudl say, colossus has no blood or anything he solid metal.

My point is it not as cut as dry as your making it out to be. There is evidences on both sides.\

and no there is no slashes on abomination I have looked closely, and i bet your refferring to abomination arm which wolverine did not slash

Originally posted by Battlehammer
the writer stated it was no match for wolverine claws implying wolverine can cut through them and implying colossus armor is not a match for them. the sparks show the armor was damaged, there really nothing elses the writer coudl say, colossus has no blood or anything he solid metal.

My point is it not as cut as dry as your making it out to be. There is evidences on both sides.\

and no there is no slashes on abomination I have looked closely, and i bet your refferring to abomination arm which wolverine did not slash

And like I said, no match to what extent? The fact that there were sparks means that his Adamantium obviously affected his Organic Armor to an extent, but the fact that the only reference to the damage done was sparks flying, it would indicate that the damage was either minor or insignificant. That would make sense why you would not be able to view it.

So you dislike how I phrased it? Lol.

At first I thought it was the arm but your right he didn't slash it. He did slash his chest, and looking closely it's either a mark from Wolverine or Abomination's abs. No homo.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
also if he slashed capt shield sparks would not occure or should not because sparks imply one or more of the metals are being damage which could not be the cases in such an event between wolverines claws and capt shield

Don't worry, 'Hammer. We all know it was Steve's shield that got damaged here biscuits 😉

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And like I said, no match to what extent? The fact that there were sparks means that his Adamantium obviously affected his Organic Armor to an extent, but the fact that the only reference to the damage done was sparks flying, it would indicate that the damage was either minor or insignificant. That would make sense why you would not be able to view it.

no match normally implies one is far greater then another, when does someone ever say that line and then give the extent?

Or the sparks were to show that he had damage the metal, and sinces he amde out of metal the only way to display damage is by sparks showing colossus metal armor being damage, similar to when he slashed ironman armor.

The reason u can't view it is becuase the artist does not show damage, he never did through out the entire issue and arc, some artist simply don't.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
At first I thought it was the arm but your right he didn't slash it. He did slash his chest, and looking closely it's either a mark from Wolverine or Abomination's abs. No homo.

You can argue that colossus did not get hurt, but it not cut and dry there is plenty of evidences on both sides. The only way to really know is to have them fight again or to ask the writer him self what he intended.

also if not mistaken they ran through simulations of fights between the x-men before when they planned to take down the x-men on megneto space station and colossus was shown to be dropped by wolverine claws.

Simulations never go as planned thankfully or the bad guys would be running the world. 🙂

And that's no fair Stiltman! What the writer says doesn't match the artwork! 😉

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Don't worry, 'Hammer. We all know it was Steve's shield that got damaged here biscuits 😉

^Or it could occur from a metal slashing another piece of metal it could not cut, or a metal as durable as it is.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Don't worry, 'Hammer. We all know it was Steve's shield that got damaged here biscuits 😉

😆

👆

Originally posted by lft4ded
Simulations never go as planned thankfully or the bad guys would be running the world. 🙂

And that's no fair Stiltman! What the writer says doesn't match the artwork! 😉

and yet if they new colossus could not be cut by wolverine why would they show him being dropped by his claws? seems dumb no?

Yeah but that's why the bad guys lose. They make dumb mistakes. 🙂

That and non-simulated heroes rise to the occassion.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
no match normally implies one is far greater then another, when does someone ever say that line and then give the extent?

Or the sparks were to show that he had damage the metal, and sinces he amde out of metal the only way to display damage is by sparks showing colossus metal armor being damage, similar to when he slashed ironman armor.

The reason u can't view it is becuase the artist does not show damage, he never did through out the entire issue and arc, some artist simply don't.

Adamantium is far greater than Colossus. That much is clear. Give Thor an Adamantium sword and he would take Colossus's head off. I'm not arguing Colossus' durability in regards to Adamantium's durability. I'm arguing Wolverine's ability with his Adamantium claws to cut Colossus.

Or the sparks were meant to show that he could not damage the metal in any significant way, hence why the writer didn't draw it. Another possibility. Not really, he might be metal through and through, but if Wolverine can cut him, we would be able to tell. It wouldn't be hard to represent that at all.

Sure he did.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it his abs.

Mindset would be in heaven.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
You can argue that colossus did not get hurt, but it not cut and dry there is plenty of evidences on both sides. The only way to really know is to have them fight again or to ask the writer him self what he intended.

I am arguing that Colossus was not hurt in any significant way and I'm doing a pretty fine job of it too. 😄

Not really. There is only one piece of evidence for both sides really, and that's the occurrence. As I recall, Wolverine never attempted to cut Colossus other than that moment.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
also if not mistaken they ran through simulations of fights between the x-men before when they planned to take down the x-men on megneto space station and colossus was shown to be dropped by wolverine claws.

Simulations =/= Reality

Hasn't it been shown Wolverine taking Magneto down or someone of that status in simulations before?

Colossus.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^Or it could occur from a metal slashing another piece of metal it could not cut, or a metal as durable as it is.

So whenever there are sparks that fine layer of oxidization has been stripped away.

Seeing as how that's not possible in the given scenario of Wolverine's claws versus Cap's shield. Its just another example of the writer and artist not being science buffs.