Alien Entity vs Sise-Neg vs Marquis of Death

Originally posted by Mr Master
That was the end result of the story ...
AE becomes the unofficial embodiment of the original Big Bang and
then merges with everything the Big Bang created.
(it's like the omniverse rolled up in one coming at cha)

Therefore it should be AE = Genesis > MoD
(initially I called it differently, but this is right imo)

So kind of on a different note, if the original Big Bang created everything, and Eternity basically embodies everything, what makes a Big Bang wielder > Eternity/Infinity? I mean Doctor Strange's former mentor The Ancient One merged with Eternity after Strange killed him and he was found in every aspect of the planet Earth, and even prevented Eternity from attacking Strange. Shouldn't that mean Ancient One is right up there with these guys?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Therefore it should be AE = Genesis > MoD
(initially I called it differently, but this is right imo)

^^ That's what happened, and it's factual.

There's no doubt that without Reed, the AE wasn't completing his work.

Here's the thing though, I believe this match up is them 3 at their best,
and at that point when the AE needed Reed, he wasn't at his best,
Now, afterwards, the AE adapted from Reed's intellect
and continued to flow into the Future.

At this point, Reed had left the AE on his own,
cause Reed didn't want to know the Future, Reed also gave up "Godhood".

The AE = the Big Bang + all creation Past/Present/Future (tuff cookie ey)
Although I think the Big Bang alone should cover the rest.

Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic

So kind of on a different note, if the original Big Bang created
everything, and Eternity basically embodies everything, what makes a
Big Bang wielder > Eternity/Infinity?

btw. Eternity/Infinity embody nearly everything
but there are a few cats outside their influence,
like Warlock, or Mr Immortal to name a couple.

This means that while Eternity/Infinity could plunge/destroy all reality (themselves)
they wouldn't be able to remake themselves from nothingness.
(unless the Cosmic recycling of Eternity/Infinity is at play through Entropy)
But that's a stipulation. In any other case the void remains.

Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic

I mean Doctor Strange's former mentor The Ancient One
merged with Eternity after Strange killed him and he was found in
every aspect of the planet Earth, and even prevented Eternity from
attacking Strange. Shouldn't that mean Ancient One is right up
there with these guys?

But he merged with Eternity on a conscious level, not physical.

In that very scene you're referring too,
the Ancient One was depicted by the artist wrestling with Eternity,
but it wasn't an actual confrontation, it was a "wow" way to show us AO influencing Eternity's decision.

In the end though, it was clear.

I've even heard silly rumors like the Ancient One choked out Eternity. 😂

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First, Eternity was neither choked out nor harmed in any way shape or form.
The Ancient One scenario was the artist depicting a battle of wills over a decision.

This is the following panels after the confusing scene between AO and ET.

(Eternity simply turned away and began to ponder)

"He" (Eternity) will consider. ... Perhaps the Cosmos will find wisdom in our deeds"

The Ancient One wasn't battling Eternity for Eternity and the Ancient One are one.
The Ancient One was trying to convince Eternity to consider Dr Strange's plea,
by reminding Eternity of all the good they've done,
which he did, but interestingly Eternity also tells Dr Strange, "good job"
and then when Eternity leaves the Ancient one say's he has to leave also,
because he and Eternity are one, while the artists draws Ancient One's face on Eternity's body.

The Ancient One also tells Dr Strange that this was all a test,
and Eternity tells Strange it was all a dream.

So go figure ...

Anyway, with a thought,
Eternity re-created Planet Earth & it's entire history (human and more included) from beginning to present.

And apparently in the end,
Eternity and the Ancient One were in cahoots to develop a better Strange.

Originally posted by zopzop

MoD is a strange one, I get the oddest feeling like most of what he did was illusions/phantasms created by his power. Like was it REALLY Galactus and Ego and Eternity he was ordering around or just mental constructs created by him representing those beings without actually being them or having their true power level?
[/B]

For a few reasons:

[list=a]
[*] Summoning, and controlling; heroes, villains, and Cosmics has been his MO for his entire run. His way of flaunting his mastery over all time-space.
[*] Reed points out that, that he (MoD), has weakened from expanding too much energy in his "interdimensional" battle against Clyde. If it was a war of minds, he would have used word psychic or anything close to that nature, to describe the landscape resembling the mental-scape.
[*] "Thing recruited the contemporary Wyncham, who set an extradimensional superhuman army against Marquis similar army. " - Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2010.
[/list]

So yes, the contemporary Wyncham(s) battled each other waging an interdimensional war, with abstracts as their pawns.

Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
Marquis of Death is an overrated sack of crap.

Sise-Neg impresses me the most out of the bunch, because he was just a regular human that achieved godhood purely by use of his own genius - figuring out how to change the past without endangering his present self. Then he remade Marvel all on his own using an enormous blast of magic power. Actually, he's the only one to remake Marvel without some outside help - Entropy/Genis basically got permission from Eternity, Thanos needed to capture THOTI, AE needed Reed to get anywhere (and all he did in the end was ask a question which made the spark of life so he wasn't even using any power). Sise-Neg was a badass mofo that just said "screw all you, I'm going to be god whether you like it or not. Gimme all your power!" 😂

You find the MoD overrated? Out of the 3 his feats, accomplishments, and stature are clearly defined.

I find it hard to swallow, that recreating reality 616 equates to the restructuring of the Marvel Omniverse on whole sale. That shit is absurd, but to each his own I suppose.

On the other hand, Clyde originated outside the Marvel-Verse. Where in his reality, Marvel was nothing more than a comic book print. If by now you are still a firm believer that SN or AE restructured all reality. Than I will clearly point out that Clyde reality takes place outside its influences. Yet upon entering the Marvel-Verse, he explored, and conquered all of space-time, across all dimensions, from its beginning to its end within the Marvel Omniverse.

There was no halt to his rampage. His bloodbath claimed millions of realities, casualties in the astronomical figures including cosmic entities. And in the end, it took Doom millions of years of planning, to tool FF4 & Clyde to beat Clyde.

Originally posted by "Id"
I find it hard to swallow, that recreating reality 616 equates to the restructuring of the Marvel Omniverse on whole sale. That shit is absurd, but to each his own I suppose.

Pretty sure that Sise-Neg recreated more than just 616 since we saw him absorbing magic power from a void beyond time and space even before Strange and Mordo began following him on his journey.

Originally posted by Marvel_Mystic
Pretty sure that Sise-Neg recreated more than just 616 since we saw him absorbing magic power from a void beyond time and space even before Strange and Mordo began following him on his journey.

Its fantastic that Sise-Neg apparently enticed himself to absorb magical energy across all realities. Yet the Marquis did a similar bit by empowering himself by all time-space. Not just magic, or energy but all of it whole sale.

In the end, that is not my key selling point. My key selling points are the actions accomplished from what read. And Sise-Neg accomplishments are lower than than those of the Marquis.

Let me ask you this, what else did Sise-Neg do beyond recreate a universe?

^^ What did Sise-Neg do beyond create a universe? hm

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Sise-Neg became GOD of the Universe and Beyond!

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Dr Strange confirms this.

Here is Strange, in-betweeen Universes, (OUTSIDE 616 or any other alternate universe)
traveling into the past chasing Sise-Neg. ... Doc states:

"Sise-Neg could change All Reality by simply willing it"

Then as you an see Sise-Neg easily plucks Strange from the Void between Time
and into an Alternate Universe that contains the Past.

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This could still be hyperbole like in Clyde's case ...

... so did Sise-Neg re-create everything, including BEYOND the Universe as he stated?

You bet yur ass he did!

Genesis creates All Eras he had sucked dry, which are all the Timelines of Marvel's History:

"Everything explodes, mushrooming from the point where,
ALL Existing Power had been held" (Sise-Neg's body)

"Riding the crest of the blast Strange/Mordo ...
forward through Time until they reach their proper Era" (Universe/616)

As mentioned in the prior page,
Reality/Universe 691 is the 31st Century (possible future) of Earth-616,
doesn't change the fact that Reality 691 is an Entire Alternate Eternity/Universe,
which Giraud cauterized its wound.

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This story is obviously on a scale that encompasses Everything (all realities)
Unfortunately BACK in 1974 the term "Multiverse" wasn't really used if at all.

So after the evidence we must agree ... Sise-Neg ... "Universal" .... these nuts.

You may believe MoD wins, but surely you do not believe Sise-Neg was "universal."

Sise destroyed/recreated all of whatever Marvel was at the time(1974). And what comprised the whole of Marvel back then? A universe? A few universes?

^^ ... 👆 I would have to take a closer look at the arc, and arcs prior,
to solidify there were "infinite" universes back then.

Because I'm honestly not absolutely sure, so I can't make that claim.

I'll be back with proof if there is any.

At-least we know for sure it was far more than a single universe.
(cause he began in the 31st century and worked his way down)

*edit* ... Imo, it shouldn't matter,
since it isn't the characters' fault the whole of reality
may have been at different scales.

All is all imo ... just like AM's case,
he's no lesser simply because DC is an omniverse now.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ What did Sise-Neg do beyond create a universe? hm

You may believe MoD wins, but surely you do not believe Sise-Neg was "universal."

I cannot improve upon that, so I shall recreate the Universe...exactly as it was before.

And everything appears to be as it was...Mordo? By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth! He is stupefied! He witnessed the second creation of the Universe....

Sis-Neg actions are clearly laid out.

Originally posted by Mr Master

As mentioned in the prior page,
Reality/Universe 691 is the 31st Century (possible future) of Earth-616,
doesn't change the fact that Reality 691 is an Entire Alternate Eternity/Universe,
which Giraud cauterized its wound.

Well whatdayaknow.....after all those years I never stopped to think that Genesis' mission started from the same reality as GOTG 's until you made the above post about the Phoenix Force helping Eternity.

Originally posted by Mr Master
*edit* ... Imo, it shouldn't matter,
since it isn't the characters' fault the whole of reality
may have been at different scales.

All is all imo ... just like AM's case,
he's no lesser simply because DC is an omniverse now.

Just like AM-- we know he destroyed the previous DC multiverse. Doesn't matter if DC is >>multiversal nowadays, because AM still just destroyed that one multiverse. Nothing more, nothing less.

I e-mailed Steve Englehart at the address on his website a while ago, asking him about the whole Sise-Neg thing. Here is what was said.

👆

^^ @ At Writer Reply:

Reminds me of the response I got from Dorkin concerning World's Funnest.

These guys aren't really focussing on the impact their stories are going to make years later as they write their works.

I'm sure Engle had no idea at the time
that "Eras" are Time periods (I'm sure he knows that)
what he probably doesn't know is that every point in "Time" is an Alternate Universe
in Marvel.

But that wouldn't make sense either because in the story Sise-Neg was clearly
jumping around Alternate Universes, and toying with Mordo/Strange while they
were in-between Universes while he was standing in yet Another alternate reality.

He also had Sise-Neg saying "God of the Universe and Beyond"

😐

So again, I could shower this thread to the point of spam with Entire
UniverseS/EternitieS that are so just because they're in Another point in Time.

I'm talking 616's "Time" here folks! Yes! That's right!

Again, Why is Reality 691 an an Entire Alternate Eternity/Infinity,
simply because it's located in 31st Century.

In fact here ya go: (knock yallselves out) ... A listing of Alternate Realities!

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appalte.htm

... ouch, I easily found 14 Alternate Realities that are either
a 616 point in Time from the Past or the Future. Bet yall can find more
cause there's too many to sift through so I stopped.

My friends, just One Minute into the Future leads to Another Universe:

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Here's one more perfect example:

Ben Grimm in a 616 Future, where the heroes age in real time:

Notice although it's the Same heroes from 616,
and it's a possible Future of 616,
it's still a what?

"You are from a Different Reality Mr Grimm" (Eye of Aggy is right)

Another Entire Universe withIn the infinite number of All Reality.

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So you see my friends, when we understand this,
we sensibly come to terms with the fact that although the term "Universe"
was used to describe 616 and it's History back to the Pre-Big Bang point in 1974,
we know this isn't correct, because every point in "Time" outside of the Present (616)
is located in a separate Entire Alternate Universe/Eternity/Intifnity in Marvel comics.

(although again, funny how Engle had S-N jumping around different Realities
and didn't mention that) 😬

That's all folks.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ @ At Writer Reply:

Reminds me of the response I got from Dorkin concerning World's Funnest.

These guys aren't really focussing on the impact their stories are going to make years later as they write their works.

Originally posted by CortSether
I e-mailed Steve Englehart at the address on his website a while ago, asking him about the whole Sise-Neg thing. Here is what was said.

So its settled Sise-Neg is a Universal force, per plot, and word of the writer. You cant get any clearer than that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
A listing of Alternate Realities!

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appalte.htm

... ouch, I easily found 14 Alternate Realities that are either
a 616 point in Time from the Past or the Future. Bet yall can find more
cause there's too many to sift through

I clicked on a few of those and it's amazing how the comic book theory of alternate universes corresponds to the quantum physics studies currently being performed in real life in regards to those same theories. One was a alternate earth (earth 5th dimension) which can only be accessed by the correct vibrational attunement. Sounds alot like what is being studied and discussed today but according to the MU, this existed as far back as the 1960's.

Anyway, at the bottom of that page is the breakdown of what the MU is comprised of by zops homeboy Gruenwald. Universally speaking:
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A Universe is a single dimension reality, such as Earth-616, the mainstream Marvel Universe. Uni - "one"

The Multiverse is the collection of alternate dimensions with a similar nature and universal hierarchy. Earth-616, pretty much all of the What if? worlds, and the vast bulk of the alternate Earths seen in the MU (which include beings like the Watcher, Eternity, etc) are within the same Multiverse. The myriad realms of Earth-616's Multiverse are overseen by the Living Tribunal. Those realms that lack this hierarchy of power are outside of the Multiverse, but within the larger Omniverse. Multi - "many"

The Omniverse is the collection of every single universe, dimension, etc. This includes the real world (right outside of your window--get out of your parent's basements and check it out!!), but it also includes every single universe, realm, etc., every mentioned in any of Marvel Comics, as well as those from DC, Image, Dark Horse, etc. It includes every single literary, television show, movie, urban legend, whatever universe/realm ever. It includes everyone from Popeye to Rocky Balboa to Ronald Reagan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob, etc. EVERYTHING is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse. Period. The End. Omni - "all"

The above classification system was devised (at least in part) by Mark Gruenwald. However, it does seem to be missing one element. We have coined the term Megaverse to include realms associated with a particular line of comics, etc., but outside of the Multiverse. This would include such realms as the New Universe, Earth-Shadowline, etc. These realms lack the cosmic beings of the mainstream Multiverse, yet they are still more closely tied to other Marvel Universes than those of other comic lines (such as DC). Thus they are included within the Marvel Megaverse. Mega - "big" (used to imply a larger grouping than the multiverse).
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@zop
Notice how it's explained that universes such as "New Universe" where the main Starbrand is from, are included in the Megaverse but located outside of the mainstream multiverse where LT reigns. Such realms lack the cosmic counterparts. This sheds light on why the LT said that the SB was outside of his influence and would jeopardize his multiversal authority.

Originally posted by Sundipped

@zop
Notice how it's explained that universes such as "New Universe" where the main Starbrand is from, are included in the Megaverse but located outside of the mainstream multiverse where LT reigns. Such realms lack the cosmic counterparts. This sheds light on why the LT said that the SB was outside of his influence and would jeopardize his multiversal authority.

Not only that, but in the New Universe, the characters in the 616 multiverse were nothing more than comic characters (just like the reality MoD is from). This was restated in "Untold Tales of the New Universe : Starbrand". So not only does he, the LT, have no authority over the Starbrand, where it's from, he only exists as a fictional character in a comic book produced by a company that went bankrupt (Marvel is bankrupt in the New Universe multiverse)! 😛