Alien Entity vs Sise-Neg vs Marquis of Death

Originally posted by zopzop

Yup. I remember a few months back someone posted a quote
from Ron Marz (Tyrant's freaking CREATOR and the writer of the issue
in question) concerning the Tyrant/Galactus fight and Marz was like "I
have no idea really, I don't recall it". They don't care.

Originally posted by "Id"

So its settled Sise-Neg is a Universal force,
per plot, and word of the writer.
You cant get any clearer than that.

He jumped from Alternate Reality to the next with ease. (simultaneously absorbing)
He handled Strange/Mordo like children from entire universeS away.
He plucked Mordo while standing in some Alternate Universe while
Mordo was in-between Universes,
he did the same thing to Strange on another occasion.
He remade the alternate reality that Shuma was in.

In the end, it's clearly stated On Panel and artistically illustrated,
that Mordo/Strange rode the explosion of Creation forward in Time,
UNTIL they reached their proper ERA (Universe 616) which is the Present.

Everything I just mentioned took place On Panel!

I could care less if ol' Stevey (almost 40 Years Later)
doesn't understand the cosmic implications his story would have, but they did.

====================================

Again, I argued with Galan about this extensively concerning World's Funnest,
the Writer told me the same shit ...

+++ Mr Master asks Evan Dorkin (Writer of World's Funnest) +++

I'm having a debate with some friends as to what Mxy destroys/
recreates in World's Funnest.
One side says 3 Multiverses ... the other says 1 Multiverse.
Our discussion revolves around the end when Mxy states:

"no more Infinite Earths"
"no more Alternate Universes'
"no more Pats or Futures"

So again, one side equates this to 3 separate Multiverses (Infinite Earths = 1 ... Alternate Universes = 2 ... Pasts/Futures = 3)
While the other equates this to a Multiverse of Infinite Earths, which are
Alternate Universes or variations of Prime Earth logically with Pasts and Futures.

+++ Evan Dorkin (Writer of World's Funnest) Replies +++

"I didn't give any of that any thought, to be honest. The lines you
mention have more to do with summing up the situation/Mxy's
frustration than figuring out or worrying about how the alternate worlds/
universes/dimensions all worked. That stuff's pretty nuts and that was
an obvious point of the comic. I just treated every dimension or world
as a place for the characters to travel to, mess with, and destroy.
Organizing it all was enough work, I wasn't trying to understand it."

http://evandorkin.livejournal.com/270607.html

----------------------------------------------------------

The Writer had no intention of turning Mxy into a Multi-Multiversal power,
but that's what ended up occurring when WF became canon.

Doesn't matter On Panel the writer defined what Mxy destroyed as a Multiverse,
because Galan gave me the argument how what Mxy destroyed becomes 3 Multiverses,
reasons the writer could have never known since one, that wasn't his aim like Stevie's,
and two,
the cosmological make-up of DC warrants several MultiverseS to be affected by the feat,
something that was obviously of NO concern to Evan Dorkin, just like Stevie. 😬

* That aside, I'll never use this "Writer Perspective" garbage again.

One: Many times these guys are more ignorant than we realize (concerning the overall picture)
and two, (most importantly) it spoils the fun of debating.

Heck, we keep running to Writers for answers and we can do away with KMC.
Only respect thread would survive,
and not even since writer's ignorant comment > On Panel occurrences.

Originally posted by Sundipped

I clicked on a few of those and it's amazing how the comic book
theory of alternate universes corresponds to the quantum physics
studies currently being performed in real life in regards to those
same theories. One was a alternate earth (earth 5th dimension)
which can only be accessed by the correct vibrational attunement.
Sounds alot like what is being studied and discussed today but
according to the MU, this existed as far back as the 1960's.

Originally posted by Sundipped

The Omniverse is the collection of every single universe,
dimension, etc. This includes the real world (right outside of your
window--get out of your parent's basements and check it out!!), but
it also includes every single universe, realm, etc., every mentioned
in any of Marvel Comics, as well as those from DC, Image, Dark
Horse, etc.

Marvel has it's own Omniverse. It's been depicted On Panel many times,
here's one example of the Marvel Omniverse not only artistically depicted,
but we're told what we already know, that it's "Infinite variations of Earth 616"

The Omniverse described: (same as above)

Or are we to believe Wanda destroyed the entirely of DC and the Real World:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15384552_Omni_bash.jpg]

I know I'm not.

Thankfully, Marvel literally tells us the facts in Update Handbooks:

TOAA is the creator of the Omniverse.

The Omniverse is an infinite number of Alternate UniverseS;

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15384693_omni2mz6.jpg]

... just like On Panel!

Originally posted by Sundipped

@zop

Notice how it's explained that universes such as "New Universe"
where the main Starbrand is from, are included in the Megaverse
but located outside of the mainstream multiverse where LT reigns.
Such realms lack the cosmic counterparts.

This sheds light on why the LT said that the SB was outside of his influence and would jeopardize his multiversal authority.

I have On Panel proof of the LT operating not only Outside of Space-Time,
but in Other MultiverseS as well.

I think the stipulation is,
that the LT can only act upon denizens of a Multiverse,
but not "visitors" or outside forces sorta speak.

This is dumb imo, but it's the only plausible explanation
and characterized best in the Rune case.
(why can't LT just chase cats into their multiverse to judge them? dumb dooddoo)
I guess it makes sense to place circumstance on the LT's judgement
this way broadening the scope of cosmic stories where villains threaten reality.

Originally posted by zopzop

Not only that, but in the New Universe, the characters in the 616
multiverse were nothing more than comic characters (just like the
reality MoD is from). This was restated in "Untold Tales of the New
Universe : Starbrand". So not only does he, the LT, have no authority
over the Starbrand, where it's from, he only exists as a fictional
character in a comic book produced by a company that went bankrupt
(Marvel is bankrupt in the New Universe multiverse)!

Earth-616 is a real entire separate Reality in the New Universe.

What she was saying is that when they enter universes,
they look to the Comic books of said universes to learn about what the inhabitants of said universes are capable of.

She clearly points out that 616 is Another Universe, (not make believe in some comic)
and that 616 is actually kinda famous
as many realities feature 616 stories in their comic books.

------------------------------------------

Also, Quasar entered the New Universe and he was very real there.

I am interested in where you got that the LT is a fictional character in a comic book company that went bankrupt in the New Universe.

You know there are Marvel Comic book companies all over Marvel on panel stories.
(most of the time, it's not Marvel head-quaters where TOAA and company reside,
it's just some company that makes comics about the heroes of their world. (616)

Just sayin, even if there is a "Marvel company" on panel in the New Universe,
it doesn't mean it contains the Marvel Omniverse that LT hangs out in.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I think you mis-interpreted that good friend.

Earth-616 is a real entire separate Reality in the New Universe.

What she was saying is that when they enter universes,
they look to the Comic books of said universes to learn about what the inhabitants of said universes are capable of.

She clearly points out that 616 is Another Universe, (not make believe in some comic)
and that 616 is actually kinda famous
as many realities feature 616 stories in their comic books.

------------------------------------------

Also, Quasar entered the New Universe and he was very real there.

I am interested in where you got that the LT is a fictional character in a comic book company that went bankrupt in the New Universe.

You know there are Marvel Comic book companies all over Marvel on panel stories.
(most of the time, it's not Marvel head-quaters where TOAA and company reside,
it's just some company that makes comics about the heroes of their world. (616)

Just sayin, even if there is a "Marvel company" on panel in the New Universe,
it doesn't mean it contains the Marvel Omniverse that LT hangs out in.

That's what Untold Tales was referring to.

Originally posted by zopzop

I was referring to this pun, Mr M :

Marvel is bankrupt and their characters exist only as comic book figures in the New Universe.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual Marvelverse or 616,
being a fictional reality within a comic book in the New Universe.

That's exactly what the Untold Tales was about,
there are comic books in different realities that define what takes
place in other real universes.

It doesn't mean that some idiot bystander
can just pick up a Marvel Comic in the New Universe,
throw it in fire ...
and actually affect the actual Marvel universe where Quasar is from.

The thought is laughable so I see you were pulling my chain.

Ahh, you almost had me there. 😛

Originally posted by zopzop

That's what Untold Tales was referring to.

But then it doesn't matter since you were just fooling with ol' Mr M.

Originally posted by Mr Master
:

👇 ... I love Marvunapp ...
but they're still stuck on that 2005 Marvel induction
which was then immediately dismissed the following year.

Marvel has it's own Omniverse. It's been depicted On Panel many times,
here's one example of the Marvel Omniverse not only artistically depicted,
but we're told what we already know, that it's "Infinite variations of Earth 616"

The Omniverse described: (same as above)

Or are we to believe Wanda destroyed the entirely of DC and the Real World:

I know I'm not.

Thankfully, Marvel literally tells us the facts in Update Handbooks:

TOAA is the creator of the Omniverse.

The Omniverse is an infinite number of Alternate

... just like On Panel!

Your explanation fits under that categorization. It's just that the list is not limited to only the totality of the MU but real life, DC etc. It's extra stuff added which shouldn't be.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea, that's also nonsense good friend.

I have On Panel proof of the LT operating not only Outside of Space-Time,
but in Other MultiverseS as well.

I think the stipulation is,
that the LT can only act upon denizens of a Multiverse,
but not "visitors" or outside forces sorta speak.

This is dumb imo, but it's the only plausible explanation
and characterized best in the Rune case.
(why can't LT just chase cats into their multiverse to judge them? dumb dooddoo)
I guess it makes sense to place circumstance on the LT's judgement
this way broadening the scope of cosmic stories where villains threaten reality.

It wasn't a question of whether LT could operate outside of the multiverse. The SB specifically is a symbol of power which he states he cannot "possess" without losing his ability to govern.

Of course the prospect of a cosmic clause increases the threat level in accordance to plot. Also with that explanation of the megaverse most likely being Gruenwald's , it goes along with what he himself wrote in Quasar#50. What he displayed on panel has to be consistent in some manner to what he described in his definition.

Another blessed thread by Guy222 🙂

Yay. That Old222 is a hoot. Still like Genesis FTW