I'm 99% sure that Luke was a passenger in a combat shuttle when he performed the black hole feat. Is it that amazing of a thing? Not really, because if it was as far beyond as we seem to think that it is, why didn't he just crush every enemy in his path with ease. The dovin basals didn't have several times the mass of a black hole or Luke would have had no problems in any of his other fights.
However, Luke was more drained from the technique than Kyp appeared to be. Granted, such techniques are far easier once mastered (like when Luke created a doppleganger the Jade Shadow. The first time almost killed him, after mastery it was difficult but nothing like the first time).
There are things that DO point to Kyp being a beast with the Force though.
"Of course, my best was nothing compared to Kyp Durron's best. Kyp's growth in the Force was nothing shy of incredible. In just over a week he surpassed anything the rest of us where doing by light-years. Master Skywalker didn't know what to do with him, he was so good. Kyp gave us hope that reestablishing the Jedi Order could be and would be done."
―Corran Horn commenting on Kyp's power. Its from I, jedi (my favorite SW book)
"Kyp Durron, young and impetuous much like me when I was his age. Once my greatest student then my greatest enemy under the tutelage of the shade of Exar Kun. He has been through much... I believe Kyp could become the greatest of us all."
―Luke Skywalker
"Kyp is an exceptionally powerful Jedi. He'd have to be. The only reason he's still alive is that people who mattered believed that his talent overbalanced his past crimes."
―Jaina Solo
In addition to what else has been said, Kyp also fought and killed a Leviathan on Corbos. A Leviathan was a Sith "superweapon."
I think those pretty much make him being powerful evident.
why didn't he just crush every enemy in his path with ease.
Because the writers are not cognizant of the incredible power such a feat would require. Ignorance on their part, and therefore PIS on Luke's.
The dovin basals didn't have several times the mass of a black hole or Luke would have had no problems in any of his other fights.
Also: Your argument against the magnitude of the feat is that he doesn't apply the power elsewhere? You want to say this feat (which he reproduces multiple times) isn't as impressive because his other feats aren't impressive? That's both foolish and wrong.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Because the writers are not cognizant of the incredible power such a feat would require. Ignorance on their part, and therefore PIS on Luke's.*More than a planet* Not more than a black hole.
Also: Your argument against the magnitude of the feat is that he doesn't apply the power elsewhere? You want to say this feat (which he reproduces multiple times) isn't as impressive because his other feats aren't impressive? That's both foolish and wrong.
Amen.
Yeah Gideon, not really sure what youre asking for.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Because the writers are not cognizant of the incredible power such a feat would require. Ignorance on their part, and therefore PIS on Luke's.
It doesn't matter if the authors realize the physics behind it. You can't throw out canon under the banner of PIS. The overwhelming evidence points that Luke doesn't have the power to move several planets equivalent of matter.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
*More than a planet* Not more than a black hole.
Sorry, I misspoke (typed? lol). The difference is inconsequential. The Earth has a mass of aprox 6E24kg. So that's 6E22 times the mass of the average guy he might fight (100kg, 220 pounds). Why didn't he propel Lumiya into space with a twitch of his finger? He obviously wanted to. The same when fighting Unuthul, Lomi Plo, or Welk? It just doesn't add up, bud.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Also: Your argument against the magnitude of the feat is that he doesn't apply the power elsewhere? You want to say this feat (which he reproduces multiple times) isn't as impressive because his other feats aren't impressive? That's both foolish and wrong.
When were the multiple other times? I only remember that one time on Dantooine. Be specific.
"During the Battle of Dantooine of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke tricked a vehicle's dovin basals into colliding its own black hole against itself by using the Force to hold the void against the pull of the dovin basals; then reversing the direction of his own pull, adding it to the pull of the dovin basals, so that the void would collide against the spine of the vehicle."
The Dovin Basal still did most of the work, not Luke.
BTW, theoretically black holes have no practical lower limit for their minimum mass, so we don't know if it was a few tons for a dovin basal, or (and this is ridiculous to believe) the size of massive astronomical black holes seen in space.
Luke is no Force god. The most powerful, yeah definitely (possibly equaled only by Sidious at his peak), but he isn't this ridiculous being that no one can hold a candle against.
Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This was never in question so I don't see why you're bringing it up.
I've noticed people say repeatedly that Luke is a Force god and I'm disputing it, so that was brought up. As for me calling him the most powerful, I was just saying that I agree. I'm not arguing to say he's weak. Just didn't want to make that impression.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Yeah Gideon, not really sure what youre asking for.It doesn't matter if the authors realize the physics behind it. You can't throw out canon under the banner of PIS. The overwhelming evidence points that Luke doesn't have the power to move several planets equivalent of matter.
Sorry, I misspoke (typed? lol). The difference is inconsequential. The Earth has a mass of aprox 6E24kg. So that's 6E22 times the mass of the average guy he might fight (100kg, 220 pounds). Why didn't he propel Lumiya into space with a twitch of his finger? He obviously wanted to. The same when fighting Unuthul, Lomi Plo, or Welk? It just doesn't add up, bud.
When were the multiple other times? I only remember that one time on Dantooine. Be specific.
"During the Battle of Dantooine of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke tricked a vehicle's dovin basals into colliding its own black hole against itself by using the Force to hold the void against the pull of the dovin basals; then reversing the direction of his own pull, adding it to the pull of the dovin basals, so that the void would collide against the spine of the vehicle."
The Dovin Basal still did most of the work, not Luke.
BTW, theoretically black holes have no practical lower limit for their minimum mass, so we don't know if it was a few tons for a dovin basal, or (and this is ridiculous to believe) the size of massive astronomical black holes seen in space.
Luke is no Force god. The most powerful, yeah definitely (possibly equaled only by Sidious at his peak), but he isn't this ridiculous being that no one can hold a candle against.
QFT
I really had never thought of the black hole feat as so great until Red pointed it out what a great feat that was. (thanks Red!!!)
Moving something with the mass of several planets is.... A whole new level.
And if you are looking for the Luke quote gideon, it was posted a week or two ago, somewhere. No question it happened. If you are looking for the Kyp quote, i don't have that one.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I've noticed people say repeatedly that Luke is a Force god and I'm disputing it, so that was brought up. As for me calling him the most powerful, I was just saying that I agree. I'm not arguing to say he's weak. Just didn't want to make that impression.
Where has anyone called him a force god in the past few years here?
Glentract, it was actually YOUR QUOTE calling Luke a force God that had me conceding a point to Gideon last week. (i contended that no one seriously thought of luke as an untouchable force-god.) Red posted your quote from last year calling him one, and i had to concede.
So its not some people, it was you. (And lucien)
Originally posted by truejedi
Glentract, it was actually YOUR QUOTE calling Luke a force God that had me conceding a point to Gideon last week. (i contended that no one seriously thought of luke as an untouchable force-god.) Red posted your quote from last year calling him one, and i had to concede.So its not some people, it was you. (And lucien)
EDIT: though to be honest, reading your quote again, it seems like maybe you didn't quite mean it like that...
BTW, theoretically black holes have no practical lower limit for their minimum mass, so we don't know if it was a few tons for a dovin basal, or (and this is ridiculous to believe) the size of massive astronomical black holes seen in space.
The minimum theoretical mass is the plank mass. (It is very small. That's all that is important.)
The minimum mass for a black hole that would have the properties we've seen is not small in the least. They had a gravitational pull capable of altering starship sized objects' trajectory so quickly that it was a valid propulsion system in combat. This indicates that the pull of gravity must necessarily be much greater than that of a plank body.
Originally posted by Gideon
Both plz.
I found this posted by Eminence 2 weeks ago when you asked for the same passage.
The Kyp one, i have no memory of, nor do i have the source.
quote:
Dark Tide I: Onslaught
The void that the vehicle's dovin basals created to intercept the missiles was a gravitic anomaly that had substance in the real world. Tiny threads of the Force leaked into it as insects and birds, bats and bugs were pulled into it. Luke used their vanishing life traces and the very currents in the air that the void created to define the void. He traced its edges, knew exactly where it was, and knew how powerful it was.He opened himself to the Force more fully than he had in years. He sought more power than he had when freeing his nephew. The Force flooded into him, at once molten-metal hot, yet as soothing as a cool rain. It swirled through him, filling every cell of his body, freeing him from fatigue, sharpening his mind.
Luke reached out with that power and latched onto the void that the Yuuzhan Vong vehicle had created. He pushed a bit, then tugged, in nanoseconds getting a feel for the power the dovin basals were able to exert to control the void. He almost smiled, since that amount of power was nothing compared to the Force, but he stopped himself short of pride in that fact.
"Artoo, juke the missiles."
R2-D2 keened sharply and fed the proton torpedoes a new set of data. The torpedoes twisted in flight and arced toward the sky, flying up and over the void. Then they turned again and fell toward the ground, aimed at the vehicle's spine.
Immediately the dovin basals started to shift the void to cover this new attack vector. Luke fed the Force into his hold on the void, thwarting them. Their pressure increased, and still Luke held it unmoving. The torpedoes got closer and closer. The dovin basals pulled harder, and when their effort reached a new peak, Luke let the void slip over toward intercepting the proton torpedoes.
The dovin basals devoted their efforts to sliding the void into place, which required both some lateral movement and shortening the arc over which the void would travel. As they brought it close to the vehicle, Luke pushed with the Force. Since the dovin basals were already tugging the void back toward the vehicle, they were not prepared to have the travel accelerated.
The void crashed into the vehicle, striking it in midspine. The long vehicle bent backward as both ends became sucked into the black hole. It flowed like thick liquid, all the sharp horns and bony plates becoming fluid as they curved up over the void's event horizon. In less than an eye blink the vehicle had been consumed by the void, leaving a huge gap in the Yuuzhan Vong formation.
Then the proton torpedoes detonated. One after another the four missiles slammed into the ground and exploded. Their blasts scattered Yuuzhan Vong warriors and lit the night. They gouged a huge canyon across the Yuuzhan Vong line of advance, and the shock waves were such that the ground rippled even into the refugee compound. Soldiers fell on both sides of the battlefield, and ramparts collapsed.
Aww, no replay Nemesis?
Originally posted by truejedi
Glentract, it was actually YOUR QUOTE calling Luke a force God that had me conceding a point to Gideon last week. (i contended that no one seriously thought of luke as an untouchable force-god.) Red posted your quote from last year calling him one, and i had to concede.So its not some people, it was you. (And lucien)
What quote was that? Was on even on here a week ago? I'm totally confused.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
The minimum theoretical mass is the plank mass. (It is very small. That's all that is important.)The minimum mass for a black hole that would have the properties we've seen is not small in the least. They had a gravitational pull capable of altering starship sized objects' trajectory so quickly that it was a valid propulsion system in combat. This indicates that the pull of gravity must necessarily be much greater than that of a plank body.
Greater than a plank body does not mean the mass of several planets and we know that didn't control the entire force of the dovin basal, he tricked it into consuming itself.
Originally posted by GideonSpoiler:
A wild night of passion?
Spoiler:
I've got the KY jelly ready...