Deathwing Vs. Lich King

Fact: As it has now been announced, Lich King will be alive when the new expansion takes place and will be fought at the same time as Deathwing. The Horde and Alliance will be fighting two wars.

Thread: Both villains is therefore fighting for dominance and Lich King is not so fond in competition. So he decides that any threat to his reign has got to go. So he wages war against Deathwing.

While the Scourge and the soldiers of the Black flight clash, Lich King attacks Deathwing when he is flying past Blackrock Mountains, forcing him to the ground with a trap that Deathwing easily shatters.

Then the two entities battle for survival.

Who would win?

Rules: The Lich King can not attack from the spirit realm and Deathwing may not use Endless Hunger. In order to drain his soul, Lich King needs to injure him a great deal. The Lich King will have all his Death Knight, Paladin and Lich King feats and theory is allowed for both characters.

Lich King may not use his 'Grasp of the Lich King' ability nor may he use his 'Apocalypse' ability.

Well theoretically I would imagine that the Lich King could destroy Deathwings mind, his mind is so vast and his conciousness seemingly so powerful that he can mentally control the entire scourge without problems and the information on him states that his mind and conciousness were empowered to a scale thousands if not tens (I cant remember the number by heart) of thousands the normal value. his mind already being so intelligent and his powers already that of an Orc shaman/warlock of high renown.

I think he will shatter Deathwings mind in an instant or at least turn it against him.

The Lich King does not control the Scourge. He leads them, yes. He grant them life and power, yes. He doesn't move them.
There are several occasions where the power of the Lich King has proven inadequate, or limited with another choice of words. They are called Sir Zeliek, Darion Mograine, Sylvanas Windrunner, Matthias Lehner, Dar'Khan Drathir and Anub'Arak.

Each one of the listed minds are weaker than Deathwing and it's with certainty that I say that Arthas will be needing a lot more than mere mind magic in order to bend Deathwing. Let's not forget that he sent Ysera running tail between her legs when she assaulted his mind, and that he once again banished her from his mind when they fought in Day of the Dragon.

This would be without considering the fact that Deathwing is a potent magician and even the weaker ones has proven able to ward their minds from mind magic.

Furthermore, I'll point out that Ner'Zhul is no longer part of the Lich King. This decrease Lich King's strategical capabilities significantly, since the amplified level of his mind is now from the base of Arthas rather than Ner'Zhul who was much more of a genius than Arthas.

I think it'll more come down to a hack and slash battle when both realise that neither side will go down by simple spellcasting. Both are powerful enough to counter spells at will and what spells that will be applied will probably not directly effect the opponent but rather use the surrounding land as an advantage or to buff.

I dont think LK will use mind magic, just his incredible mental power. And I would put LK over Ysera mentally speaking, theoretically ofc.

When you say weaker magicans ward their minds from mind magic, do you mean normal mind magic, or the LK himself?

What states that Ner'Zhul is gone and only Arthas remains? I never knew this...

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont think LK will use mind magic, just his incredible mental power. And I would put LK over Ysera mentally speaking, theoretically ofc.

When you say weaker magicans ward their minds from mind magic, do you mean normal mind magic, or the LK himself?

What states that Ner'Zhul is gone and only Arthas remains? I never knew this...

1. Anything invasive of the mind of another is mind magic. No exceptions.

2. I'm talking about Illidan warding himself from Sargeras.

3. Ner'Zhul was "killed" in 'Rise of the Lich King'

was it wrath of deathwing? nope so with that said im going to biasly pick the one who caused my roomate to wait 2 hours at a gamestop.

1. So using your mind to do things even if its based on physical level is magic in warcraft? you sure? whats that idea based on, is it specifically stated?

2. Illidan seems more impressive to me than I first thought if he can ward his mind from Sargeras trying to mind control/read his thoughts, unless this was passive protectoin.

3. Was he? can you explain please....by whom, how etc?

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
was it wrath of deathwing? nope so with that said im going to biasly pick the one who caused my roomate to wait 2 hours at a gamestop.

So he won't wait for Cataclysm?

i think he stopped playing

Deathwing wins...

He woke from a nap and Azeroth broke. /thread

He didn't take a nap though. He was scheming. He decided that the world would once and for all end, so he erupted lava all across the planet and disfigured it by breaking land and exploding vulcanos 🙂 It's the Earth Warden right there for you. The Aspect of Earth.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He didn't take a nap though. He was scheming. He decided that the world would once and for all end, so he erupted lava all across the planet and disfigured it by breaking land and exploding vulcanos 🙂 It's the Earth Warden right there for you. The Aspect of Earth.

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. So using your mind to do things even if its based on physical level is magic in warcraft? you sure? whats that idea based on, is it specifically stated?

2. Illidan seems more impressive to me than I first thought if he can ward his mind from Sargeras trying to mind control/read his thoughts, unless this was passive protectoin.

3. Was he? can you explain please....by whom, how etc?

1. There's nothing physical about invading a mind.

2. He warded his mind, so he was actively preventing Sargeras from entering it.

3. Ysera is by feats, background and title more powerful mentally than the Lich King.

He shrugged of Ysera's mind attack in Days of the Dragon (granted before she had gained her entire strength back) but that is still the very same Ysera that was in progress of raping the Burning Legion forces in War of the Ancient. Furthermore it toke the Old Gods time to invade Deathwings mind, it wasn't instantanous. As for Magic I see Deathwing having the advantage as well, Strength and Durability isn't really a contest Deathwings take that too.

From my point of view Deathwing for the win.

I agree that Deathwing should win this, Lich King's mostly dangerous on a technicality, imho.

Deathwing.

His power is "Tenfold" what it was. So anything we know about him, we need to literally multiply.

They are even if you don't consider this but if you do. It's pretty one sided.

Also consider, Kil'Jaeden empowered the Lich King, while it's true he become more powerful than Kil'Jaeden intended it should be pointed out Deathwing was empowered by a Pantheon. Someone on the same sort of strength level as Sargeras himself.

Deathwing took years and years to be affected by the Old Gods. Even assuming Yogg and LK are as powerful (VERY unlikely, but to put down the idea) it would take the LK years to affect Deathwing mentally.

Although does it say Kiljaeden only empowered LK with a portion of his own power? he could have given more power to the LK than the Pantheon member gave to Deathwing.

Have the Old gods ever mentally enslaved anyone quickly?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Although does it say Kiljaeden only empowered LK with a portion of his own power? he could have given more power to the LK than the Pantheon member gave to Deathwing.

Have the Old gods ever mentally enslaved anyone quickly?

Fair enough lol. I guess that's a valid point. Though, Kil'jaeden was empowered by Sargeras, as Deathwing was empowered by Khaz'goroth. So yeah, you could argue, that they could be the same, but then, it just feels somewhat unlikely without it being specified.

My theory is simply; Someone of the same sort of power level who empowered Deathwing, empowered Kil'jaeden, who then empowered LK.

massive ABC logic i know but, then consider since then that Deathwings power has increased "tenfold"

In my eyes it paints a picture that seems to suggest Deathwing is just more powerful than any enemy that has ever even appeared on Azeroth before. (Sargeras excluded)

Have you not fought the Yogg-Saronn fight in Ulduar yet? ;p

He can do it just by looking at you when he uses some sort of gaze attack, very annoying.

Thoughout the whole fight the harder part is avoiding all his abilities that turn you against your team. And trust me, he has quite a few of them.

Then consider it was said he was turned by Old Gods. More than one. So yeah, it's difficult to assume the LK, badass has he is, can Mind whip Deathwing into line.

Lich King is a 2nd grade empowerment.
Deathwing is a 1st grade.

- Deathwing was empowered by a member of the Pantheon,
- Lich King was empowered by someone empowered by a member of the Pantheon.

So technically, Deathwing has all the reasons in the world to still be more powerful than Lich King, even if judging purely on who empowered who.
Let's also not forget that the Pantheon didn't exactly hold back on the empowerments. Look at Malygos, Nozdormu and Ysera. They are all insanely powerful.
They have all done feats that Lich King can't even compare to at his current state.

Let's not forget that Deathwing resisted Ysera. Ysera is Lich King superior in every way mentally.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Fair enough lol. I guess that's a valid point. Though, Kil'jaeden was empowered by Sargeras, as Deathwing was empowered by Khaz'goroth. So yeah, you could argue, that they could be the same, but then, it just feels somewhat unlikely without it being specified.

My theory is simply; Someone of the same sort of power level who empowered Deathwing, empowered Kil'jaeden, who then empowered LK.

massive ABC logic i know but, then consider since then that Deathwings power has increased "tenfold"

In my eyes it paints a picture that seems to suggest Deathwing is just more powerful than any enemy that has ever even appeared on Azeroth before. (Sargeras excluded)

Have you not fought the Yogg-Saronn fight in Ulduar yet? ;p

He can do it just by looking at you when he uses some sort of gaze attack, very annoying.

Thoughout the whole fight the harder part is avoiding all his abilities that turn you against your team. And trust me, he has quite a few of them.

Then consider it was said he was turned by Old Gods. More than one. So yeah, it's difficult to assume the LK, badass has he is, can Mind whip Deathwing into line.

Hm fair point indeed.

Ah ive read about him being able to do that although I was more specifically thinking about in lore, I know he can MC, I meant more like the LK in lore controlled all those entities around him and just to test his power created a plague that swept across the peoples.

Perhaps but a possibility theoretically. I think thats certainly one of his best ways of winning, his mental capacity.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Lich King is a 2nd grade empowerment.
Deathwing is a 1st grade.

- Deathwing was empowered by a member of the Pantheon,
- Lich King was empowered by someone empowered by a member of the Pantheon.

So technically, Deathwing has all the reasons in the world to still be more powerful than Lich King, even if judging purely on who empowered who.
Let's also not forget that the Pantheon didn't exactly hold back on the empowerments. Look at Malygos, Nozdormu and Ysera. They are all insanely powerful.
They have all done feats that Lich King can't even compare to at his current state.

Let's not forget that Deathwing resisted Ysera. Ysera is Lich King superior in every way mentally.

Its not necessarily as black and white as that, for example:

Lets assume that each pantheon member only gave each Kiljaeden and Deathwing 10% of their power, dont forget the Eredar were already incredibly powerful, their culture based on magic, their paramount spells were their own I think as well? so.....perhaps Kiljaeden is at base value far stronger than base Deathwing, then with their enhancements Killy is still powerful.

Also then take into account that although we know the Pantheon member only gave Deathwing a portion of his power, Kiljaeden may have given, and I would assume this myself far more than a portion, the legion certainly treid to keep the LK from gaining a body and they were certainly worried about him being free, so they certainly consider him a threat. Did Archimonde when he was on Azeroth go and actively try and stop an aspect?

By feats, but theoretically? I dont know about that....tbh the LK has such a vast consciousness and hes not really done much so far despite having his own Exp pack. I mean whats he done? sat behind his walls most of the time, hes appeared in cutscenes but hes not really done much at all...hes been more of a talker than someone who takes action so far. I wager by the time we get to face him he is certainly going to have done something worth noting.

Also whos higher level, LK or Deathwing in WoW?