Deathwing Vs. Lich King

Started by Q'Anilia3 pages

Archimonde on Azeroth never fought an Aspect. So we wouldn't be able to compare from anything of the sort. It's an unknown how the power of a Kil'Jaeden empowerment differ from a Khaz'Goroth empowerment, but one thing is definate: Kil'Jaeden has a much more limited mind than anyone in the Pantheon.

When Lich King broke loose, Kil'Jaeden was more hurt pride-wise than considered him a threat. It's been proven over and over again that Kil'Jaedens greatest weakness is his pride. He didn't kill Ner'Zhul because he was ashamed over the fact that Ner'Zhul had escaped him for so long. He was also humiliated by the fact that Velen has evaded them for even longer.

He empowered Ner'Zhul as a punishment and not as a token of power. When Ner'Zhul then broke the link, Kil'Jaeden truth be told didn't hesitate to attain contacts within Azeroth in order to enter himself and deal with the problem. He was personally going for the Lich King. Kil'Jaeden has NEVER before personally gone for anyone.

That alone is reason enough to think that Kil'Jaeden was confident enough that Lich King, while more powerful than ever before, wasn't powerful enough to compare to Kil'Jaeden.

Theory, of course, but at least as much valid as yours.
As for Ysera, theoretically, she can still be more powerful than him. Feats and story back this up, despite his "ten thousand fold amplification"

Revolving the level, neither one has been given a level in World of Warcraft. Since Lich King is alive at the release of Cataclysm, neither one will be encountered until later.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Archimonde on Azeroth never fought an Aspect. So we wouldn't be able to compare from anything of the sort. It's an unknown how the power of a Kil'Jaeden empowerment differ from a Khaz'Goroth empowerment, but one thing is definate: Kil'Jaeden has a much more limited mind than anyone in the Pantheon.

When Lich King broke loose, Kil'Jaeden was more hurt pride-wise than considered him a threat. It's been proven over and over again that Kil'Jaedens greatest weakness is his pride. He didn't kill Ner'Zhul because he was ashamed over the fact that Ner'Zhul had escaped him for so long. He was also humiliated by the fact that Velen has evaded them for even longer.

He empowered Ner'Zhul as a punishment and not as a token of power. When Ner'Zhul then broke the link, Kil'Jaeden truth be told didn't hesitate to attain contacts within Azeroth in order to enter himself and deal with the problem. He was personally going for the Lich King. Kil'Jaeden has NEVER before personally gone for anyone.

That alone is reason enough to think that Kil'Jaeden was confident enough that Lich King, while more powerful than ever before, wasn't powerful enough to compare to Kil'Jaeden.

Theory, of course, but at least as much valid as yours.
As for Ysera, theoretically, she can still be more powerful than him. Feats and story back this up, despite his "ten thousand fold amplification"

Revolving the level, neither one has been given a level in World of Warcraft. Since Lich King is alive at the release of Cataclysm, neither one will be encountered until later.

Limited mind? is that really a fact? also didnt Archimonde tear apart an adult dragon with TK? is it factually stated how much bigger aspects are in comparison to adult dragons in lore? In warcraft, standing next to alex shes not as big and certainly not much bigger than Onxyia and other large boss dragons.

The legion certainly went through a fair amount to stop him from getting free, first they dont give him a body, then shove him into a block of ice (not just any ice, ice from the furthest reaches of the void), his lair is a savage and wild frozen land fairly remote compared to the rest of Azeroth and they left agents to make sure he would stay put. Then ofc theres the mental link that was supposed to stop LK betraying the legion. LK defeated all of these and they were certainly not happy, nor did they ever think it was possible, hell Kiljaeden even went to Illidan to directly destroy the frozen throne through the eye of Sarg, (a piece of sarg required is fairly impressive as well).

Why would you empower him as a punishment? its all part of their plan, the scourge was part of the plan of the legion after their failure with the orcs to take Azeroth..so he personally went in himself, never done this before and this makes the LK look weaker? heavens no, imo if he decides that the rest of Azeroth is not worthy of his presence and he can make do with lackeys yet he has to go in himself for the LK, damn he must be strong to be worthy of the atttension of someone so arrogant.

Hm, well when we know the level we can have a fairly valgue idea of which one is stronger than the other, since it is Blizzard who choose this information ofc, so they would decide who would be stronger by level at least.

Originally posted by Burning thought
is it factually stated how much bigger aspects are in comparison to adult dragons in lore? In warcraft, standing next to alex shes not as big and certainly not much bigger than Onxyia and other large boss dragons.

No it isn't. You know my guild have been discussing this since our first member did wrathgate.

We think that's her controlling her size. since afk 2 warlocks, 6 helpers, and several trips back and forth, we've come to the conclusion she may be smaller than Nefarian. (Yes, we are just that sad ;p )

So, it's really impossible to say how big they are(potentially).

Though imo it may not be relevent to your point, since i would suppose only a magical resistance would help you from TK?

Kil'jaeden was acting a bit out of character when he tried to enter Azeroth so recklessly.

Anyway, he wasn't going just for the Lich King, he wanted to destroy Azeroth.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
No it isn't. You know my guild have been discussing this since our first member did wrathgate.

We think that's her controlling her size. since afk 2 warlocks, 6 helpers, and several trips back and forth, we've come to the conclusion she may be smaller than Nefarian. (Yes, we are just that sad ;p )

So, it's really impossible to say how big they are(potentially).

Though imo it may not be relevent to your point, since i would suppose only a magical resistance would help you from TK?

I dont know, depends on the fiction, personally I am of the mind is that as TK is telekinetic force usually from mental projection so I dont think unless Warcraft actually directly outlines anything mental as magical then it should not protect them. I mean I would have thought an adult dragon (especially if it was blue, I am not sure what colour dragon it was) would have resistances to magic forces.

Although yes, I thought that was strange, them making Alex smaller than Onyxia or Netharian... "sigh", you would have thought blizzard would have made her the real size though wouldnt you, I cant see a reason for them to make her smaller than she really is at the time.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Kil'jaeden was acting a bit out of character when he tried to enter Azeroth so recklessly.

Anyway, he wasn't going just for the Lich King, he wanted to destroy Azeroth.

Why do you think AQ said he came on Azeroth for the LK? I cant remember the event myself but are you talking about a pre-WoW event or the sunwell?

Perhaps the LK was his main objective or something.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know, depends on the fiction, personally I am of the mind is that as TK is telekinetic force usually from mental projection so I dont think unless Warcraft actually directly outlines anything mental as magical then it should not protect them. I mean I would have thought an adult dragon (especially if it was blue, I am not sure what colour dragon it was) would have resistances to magic forces.

Although yes, I thought that was strange, them making Alex smaller than Onyxia or Netharian... "sigh", you would have thought blizzard would have made her the real size though wouldnt you, I cant see a reason for them to make her smaller than she really is at the time.

Well i only say that because, if he can crush an entire dragon with TK. If the target were only bigger, all he would have to do is aim for the neck. Correct?

I would probably think there would be something protecting the dragon aspects from being, well let's face it, pwned that simply.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Limited mind? is that really a fact? also didnt Archimonde tear apart an adult dragon with TK? is it factually stated how much bigger aspects are in comparison to adult dragons in lore? In warcraft, standing next to alex shes not as big and certainly not much bigger than Onxyia and other large boss dragons.

The legion certainly went through a fair amount to stop him from getting free, first they dont give him a body, then shove him into a block of ice (not just any ice, ice from the furthest reaches of the void), his lair is a savage and wild frozen land fairly remote compared to the rest of Azeroth and they left agents to make sure he would stay put. Then ofc theres the mental link that was supposed to stop LK betraying the legion. LK defeated all of these and they were certainly not happy, nor did they ever think it was possible, hell Kiljaeden even went to Illidan to directly destroy the frozen throne through the eye of Sarg, (a piece of sarg required is fairly impressive as well).

Why would you empower him as a punishment? its all part of their plan, the scourge was part of the plan of the legion after their failure with the orcs to take Azeroth..so he personally went in himself, never done this before and this makes the LK look weaker? heavens no, imo if he decides that the rest of Azeroth is not worthy of his presence and he can make do with lackeys yet he has to go in himself for the LK, damn he must be strong to be worthy of the atttension of someone so arrogant.

Hm, well when we know the level we can have a fairly valgue idea of which one is stronger than the other, since it is Blizzard who choose this information ofc, so they would decide who would be stronger by level at least.

An aspect dwarves the size of our common adult dragons. Korialstrasz, who is abnormally large for an adult dragon, was slapped around silly by the sheer size of Deathwing when they fought. Deathwing was able to with his paw alone topple another adult dragon, and take a third out with a whip of his tail alone.
Neltharion in lore is compared to a mountain in terms of size, which while hyped, says a lot about how large he actually is.
How the dragons appear in World of Warcraft, you should know is not on an accurate scale. Almost nothing in Warcraft is of accurate scale.
Stormwind is barely even the size of a village in comparison to the magnificent city that it takes hours to walk through in lore.

Illidan didn't use the Eye of Sargeras to destroy the Frozen Throne and Lich King. He was going to destroy the entire Northrend. He wanted to destroy the entire continent, burrying the Lich King and all else there was too it. The fact that he uses the Eye of Sargeras says nothing really of the power of the Lich King, since simply killing Arthas would've been adequate to kill the Lich King. Illidan wanted to destroy the entire lands of Northrend. For THAT, he wanted the Eye of Sargeras.

And as I said, Lich King was sent to Azeroth to serve Kil'Jaeden as a PUNISHMENT. The Dreadlords were his wardens and the ice was his prison. The fact that Kil'Jaeden used the ice he did, was because common ice isn't quite as usable. Why would he take unnecessary risks by using regular ice when he could just as easily take special ice? Again, this doesn't prove anything other than the fact that Kil'Jaeden wanted Ner'Zhul to stay put. Many prisons has extra tough protection even though they don't really need it. His being extra tough is proof of nothing.

Have you read the books? Kil'Jaeden was furious on Ner'Zhul. He was so angered that he punished him by tearing his soul from his body and imprisoned it in a prison of ice. Because Ner'Zhul gave EVERYTHING to not be involved with Kil'Jaeden, Kil'Jaeden punished him by FORCING him to serve him.
It was a punishment, and that's a FACT. Kil'Jaeden could've used anyone to control the Scourge. In fact, they didn't even need the Lich King. Archimonde proved very able to do so himself, when he removed Lich King from power and claimed the Scourge as his own.
There's no debating it really. Kil'Jaeden was punishing Ner'Zhul. It's written black on white. He imagined that what punishment could be worse for someone that hated Kil'Jaeden as much as Ner'Zhul did, than force him to serve him for all eternity?

According to feats and story, Ysera is more powerful mentally. That's a fact until Blizzard decide to change it. For now, it's not a debate either. Anything Lich King as done, she has done better. So for as long as that remains fact, it can't be argued that Lich King is more powerful.
It can be theorized, but it can't be stated. While it's true that Lich King has not done much with his appearance in World of Warcraft, that can't be used to claim he is more powerful. That's fallacious.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well i only say that because, if he can crush an entire dragon with TK. If the target were only bigger, all he would have to do is aim for the neck. Correct?

I would probably think there would be something protecting the dragon aspects from being, well let's face it, pwned that simply.

Telekinesis is magical, and Deathwing has magical resistance by both nature, magic prowess and his plated skin. Telekinesis will be utterly useless, not only because Deathwing is more durable than any other dragon that has ever lived, but he's probably the second largest that has ever lived and he has magic resistance.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why do you think AQ said he came on Azeroth for the LK? I cant remember the event myself but are you talking about a pre-WoW event or the sunwell?

Perhaps the LK was his main objective or something.

LK was definitely in his sights, but I highly doubt he was the sole reason or even the main one.

I was talking about the Sunwell event. I can't remember him trying to enter Azeroth ever before that. He has talked to Illidan before on Kalimdor somewhere, but it looked like a shade or a ghost.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
LK was definitely in his sights, but I highly doubt he was the sole reason or even the main one.

I was talking about the Sunwell event. I can't remember him trying to enter Azeroth ever before that. He has talked to Illidan before on Kalimdor somewhere, but it looked like a shade or a ghost.

It was a shade, a mere phantom.

As for Kil'Jaeden coming to Azeroth, he of course wanted the power that was there, but Azeroth has also become something of a personal matter for him. Azeroth defeated both Sargeras and Archimonde and I imagine Kil'Jaeden wants to prove himself.

He is after all now self-proclaimed leader of the Burning Legion and he wants to show the universe that he can do all the things Sargeras failed to do. He wants to show everyone that he is better.
So Azeroth is something of a trophy of his. But the first thing he'd do if he comes to Azeroth, is go for the Lich King. After all, there's the pride matter.

"The expendible have perished... So be it! Now I shall succeed where Sargeras could not! I will bleed this wretched world and secure my place as the true master of the Burning Legion. The end has come! Let the unraveling of this world commence!"

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Telekinesis is magical, and Deathwing has magical resistance by both nature, magic prowess and his plated skin. Telekinesis will be utterly useless, not only because Deathwing is more durable than any other dragon that has ever lived, but he's probably the [b]second largest that has ever lived and he has magic resistance. [/B]

Galakrond eh?

hehe, you're such a warcraft buff ;p Geeeek! hehe, only kidding 😉

What can i say? i know a bit, but all in all, i just think he looks cool =D

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Galakrond eh?

hehe, you're such a warcraft buff ;p Geeeek! hehe, only kidding 😉

What can i say? i know a bit, but all in all, i just think he looks cool =D

Truth be told, I was thinking about Dargonax and not Galakrond 😛 Didn't really think about him. I guess that puts Deathwing on 3rd place 🙂

Well, I am a geek. Given how I don't play World of Warcraft, that makes me more-so one for finding out these things by other means! I just love the story behind Azeroth and Warcraft 😄

You seem like fun! MSN?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Truth be told, I was thinking about Dargonax and not Galakrond 😛 Didn't really think about him. I guess that puts Deathwing on 3rd place 🙂

Well, I am a geek. Given how I don't play World of Warcraft, that makes me more-so one for finding out these things by other means! I just love the story behind Azeroth and Warcraft 😄

You seem like fun! MSN?

Ahh, i knew that! i was just testing you!

Hahah, well in a way i'm worse, i mean, i know less but i want to know more, i just am either too lazy or can't find the things to know more ;p I'm a wannabe geek ;p

So do you ;p Sure, i'll log on in a bit, i believe i already have you added ;p But unfortunately i require a trip to the store. We have no food and my hunger is finally making demands =(

Really, that dragon had completely slipped my mind. When I think sheer size, I by default think Dargonax 😛

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have you added as well since before.

Well i only really know who he is because of WoW ;p

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well i only really know who he is because of WoW ;p

His skeleton stretches pretty much across half the zone. The thing must have been huge.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Archimonde proved very able to do so himself, when he removed Lich King from power and claimed the Scourge as his own.

IIRC Archimonde didn't himself directly take command but instead gave the command to the dreadlords

"Since the Lich King is of no further use to me you dreadlords will now command the scourge"

which actually more impressive from my point of view.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
His skeleton stretches pretty much across half the zone. The thing must have been huge.

And that's only what they have unearther so far ;p

Originally posted by EvilAngel
And that's only what they have unearther so far ;p

Yea, and that's just the skeleton. He would be even more larger and impressive with flesh on and all that.

EDIT: It's barely 1/3 of the spine that's actually unearthed. Also his skull seems to be somewhat still partially sunken into the ground.

Let's remember though that WoW scale isn't necessarily accurate.